93' Fire have a pretty decent team?
A few players that would have tried out for our team are on that team
How are they doing? Solid Team?
Fire
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
-
lamplighter
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:22 pm
-
TheOctopus
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:18 pm
Re: Fire
[quote="RBK"]93' Fire have a pretty decent team?
A few players that would have tried out for our team are on that team
How are they doing? Solid Team?[/quote
Go to
http://www.midwestyouthhockey.com/view_ ... y&m=n&r=US
They're ranked 20th in the nation... Not bad I'll say. If you would like to know more go to
http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/13052
A few players that would have tried out for our team are on that team
How are they doing? Solid Team?[/quote
Go to
http://www.midwestyouthhockey.com/view_ ... y&m=n&r=US
They're ranked 20th in the nation... Not bad I'll say. If you would like to know more go to
http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/13052
Re: Fire
TheOctopus wrote:They are not the same team all year. When they had 2 great goalies they were good. When they lost them & some great D they were O.K. Their season record doesn't reflect or explain these occurrences.RBK wrote:93' Fire have a pretty decent team?
A few players that would have tried out for our team are on that team
How are they doing? Solid Team?[/quote
Go to
http://www.midwestyouthhockey.com/view_ ... y&m=n&r=US
They're ranked 20th in the nation... Not bad I'll say. If you would like to know more go to
http://firehockey.pucksystems2.com/page/show/13052
-
just the facts
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:59 pm
Hello The Octopus,
GOEP is right on the money and if you want to be real accurate the Fire were DISQULIFIED at the Wisconsin state tournament for not having coaches with their certification and were asked to leave the bench area. Their team manager ended up coacihing the team for all 3 games. If you really want to get technical all games they played in 2008 should be registered as a 1-0 forfeit. They had a good year though.
GOEP is right on the money and if you want to be real accurate the Fire were DISQULIFIED at the Wisconsin state tournament for not having coaches with their certification and were asked to leave the bench area. Their team manager ended up coacihing the team for all 3 games. If you really want to get technical all games they played in 2008 should be registered as a 1-0 forfeit. They had a good year though.
Fire
If that is true, how could that possibly happen? These '93's have been in youth hockey for a long time, by now, everybody knows the coaching certificate criterea. Somebody with some insight let me know. Was this a case of a serious lack of integrity? Any team that has played them or any tournament that let them in could be up for possible ramifications. Elliot where are you?
-
greybeard58
- Posts: 2512
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm
Jackstraw,
Not sure about the teams that scrimmaged them but the associations that hosted tournaments did a real bad job of verification of the rosters.
As far as integrity, this is a team of mostly Mn parents that register in Wisconsin because they are upset with Mn Hockey and association hockey and feel this is the way to get their children noticed.
Not sure about the teams that scrimmaged them but the associations that hosted tournaments did a real bad job of verification of the rosters.
As far as integrity, this is a team of mostly Mn parents that register in Wisconsin because they are upset with Mn Hockey and association hockey and feel this is the way to get their children noticed.
Re: Fire
I can't answer as at no time did I see or verify their roster.jackstraw wrote:If that is true, how could that possibly happen? These '93's have been in youth hockey for a long time, by now, everybody knows the coaching certificate criterea. Somebody with some insight let me know. Was this a case of a serious lack of integrity? Any team that has played them or any tournament that let them in could be up for possible ramifications. Elliot where are you?
If they used a coach that was not eligible in an invitational tournament, the tournaemnt VP and District Director will have to deal with that association. Unfortunately for the Fire, if that did happen and there are sanctions, the Fire will probably get banned from participating in MH invitational tournaments.
I do not know the individuals involved so I cannot speak to their integrity.
My initial reaction is that the individual coach(es) failed to get to a class, did not realize where he/she was at in the cycle of things, or did not understand how the system works. I would not be quick to hang the coach but get him on the right track.
The association (the Fire) needs to make sure they (including their coaches) are compliant. Failure to something in one area gives rise to question their ability to control the others.
Personally, I do not agree with leaving your association to play on this team (or similar teams); however, it is an option that people have chose, so I hope it can get resolved with as little distraction for the kids as possible.
Hopefully, it is just one oversight that can be rectified.
Last edited by elliott70 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
thinkb4engaging
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:38 pm
Level 4 certifications
Greybeard58:
Thought all the 93 Fire coaches has their Level 3 certifications. However, to coach in a Tier 1 National Bantam Tournament (and playin games i.e. State and then Tier 1 Districts), I believe the coaches needed Level 4 certifications.
Thought all the 93 Fire coaches has their Level 3 certifications. However, to coach in a Tier 1 National Bantam Tournament (and playin games i.e. State and then Tier 1 Districts), I believe the coaches needed Level 4 certifications.
-
greybeard58
- Posts: 2512
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm
The levels required for coaching on a USA Hockey registered team are on page 140 in the annual guide. Bantam minimum is a Level 3. I went to the Fire link above and ran the coaches names through the USA site to verify coaches certification and the Head Coach's certification expired on 12/31/07 and the other name came up no record. This took all of 5 minutes.
The level 4 requirement is for Midget I Tier L&II National Tournament bound teams. If this had been true at the Bantam level it still is shame on the Fire orginazation for not following the basic USA Hockey registration rules.
The level 4 requirement is for Midget I Tier L&II National Tournament bound teams. If this had been true at the Bantam level it still is shame on the Fire orginazation for not following the basic USA Hockey registration rules.
Per a WAHA member...
The '93 FIRE failed to follow a number "basic" and "straight forward" rules and/or procedures of USA Hockey. To follow is his account.
#1 - NONE of the "coaches" had CURRENT coaching cards. From the sounds of it they tried to tell WAHA they they merely "forgot" the physical card itself. These "coaches" failed to realize that all it took was WAHA getting on USA Hockey's website and verifing that 2 of the coaches certification expired on 12/31/2007 and the other coach hadn't been certified since 12/31/2000!
http://old.usahockey.com/servlets/Coach ... t&type=ice
Per USA Hockey 2007-08 Annual Guide - Page 141
All coaches must be certified at the proper CEP level for the level of
play in which he/she is coaching beginning January 1 of the current
season.
#2 - 80/20 Rule of Residency/Home games
Per USA Hockey 2007-08 Annual Guide - Page 136
Except for Juniors, a team must register in the USA Hockey affiliate or district in which 80% or more of its players reside; otherwise, if 80% of the players do not reside in a single affiliate/district, it must register in the affiliate or district where it plays the highest percentage of its home games.
First of all it was determined that the FIRE may have only played ONE home game in WISCONSIN.
Secondly, it was determined that the FIRE did NOT have 80% of its players RESIDING in the district they registered in - DUH!!!
Furthermore, the general manager even directly lied to WAHA officials when questioned in regards to the where abouts of one of the WI boys that they had on the roster and was not present. The GM said that he was at home with a broken arm. Actually the boy in question had left the FIRE in January to join his high school's Varsity team...OOPS!
Not only is this a case of LACK of INTEGRITY, it is a total lack of RESPECT for the rules of USA Hockey!
We should feel bad for the players and their families. They followed a person that was leading the '93 FIRE down a road of dishonesty and deception. Thank god they didn't drink the kool-aid.
FYI - I had heard that the FIRE are still practicing and playing games, if so I hope that the coaches realize that they are not certified coaches in Minnesota either! Anyway, who the heck would want to play them now?
The '93 FIRE failed to follow a number "basic" and "straight forward" rules and/or procedures of USA Hockey. To follow is his account.
#1 - NONE of the "coaches" had CURRENT coaching cards. From the sounds of it they tried to tell WAHA they they merely "forgot" the physical card itself. These "coaches" failed to realize that all it took was WAHA getting on USA Hockey's website and verifing that 2 of the coaches certification expired on 12/31/2007 and the other coach hadn't been certified since 12/31/2000!
http://old.usahockey.com/servlets/Coach ... t&type=ice
Per USA Hockey 2007-08 Annual Guide - Page 141
All coaches must be certified at the proper CEP level for the level of
play in which he/she is coaching beginning January 1 of the current
season.
#2 - 80/20 Rule of Residency/Home games
Per USA Hockey 2007-08 Annual Guide - Page 136
Except for Juniors, a team must register in the USA Hockey affiliate or district in which 80% or more of its players reside; otherwise, if 80% of the players do not reside in a single affiliate/district, it must register in the affiliate or district where it plays the highest percentage of its home games.
First of all it was determined that the FIRE may have only played ONE home game in WISCONSIN.
Secondly, it was determined that the FIRE did NOT have 80% of its players RESIDING in the district they registered in - DUH!!!
Furthermore, the general manager even directly lied to WAHA officials when questioned in regards to the where abouts of one of the WI boys that they had on the roster and was not present. The GM said that he was at home with a broken arm. Actually the boy in question had left the FIRE in January to join his high school's Varsity team...OOPS!
Not only is this a case of LACK of INTEGRITY, it is a total lack of RESPECT for the rules of USA Hockey!
We should feel bad for the players and their families. They followed a person that was leading the '93 FIRE down a road of dishonesty and deception. Thank god they didn't drink the kool-aid.
FYI - I had heard that the FIRE are still practicing and playing games, if so I hope that the coaches realize that they are not certified coaches in Minnesota either! Anyway, who the heck would want to play them now?
One team
With no excuse for the account of what happened with the 93 FIRE, it was one FIRE team that had obviously a blatant issue. It's a shame for the younger players in the program who will actually pay the price for one Coaching staffs issues.
The 94 Fire had every knowing knowledge that as a team they were not coming back next year for a run at Bantam Majors. With 2 players heading to Shattuck, a goalie most likely playing Varsity and a host of other kids heading to what will be an enjoybable Bantam A or B year.
The 95 Fire are playing this weekend in the WAHA playdown. I'm sure their books are going to be thoroughly gone through. They have had a great season and more than likely would have stayed together for at least one more year. Those associations that get these players back will be very happy with their ability.
The 96 Fire from my understanding have an understanding that they too would have been breaking apart as several players were ready to head back to their respective associations for Pee Wee hockey.
So all in all, I think this horse was on it's last breathe going into March and the 93 team most likely delievered it's last blow.
Oh well, **** happens, enjoy your spring boys...
The 94 Fire had every knowing knowledge that as a team they were not coming back next year for a run at Bantam Majors. With 2 players heading to Shattuck, a goalie most likely playing Varsity and a host of other kids heading to what will be an enjoybable Bantam A or B year.
The 95 Fire are playing this weekend in the WAHA playdown. I'm sure their books are going to be thoroughly gone through. They have had a great season and more than likely would have stayed together for at least one more year. Those associations that get these players back will be very happy with their ability.
The 96 Fire from my understanding have an understanding that they too would have been breaking apart as several players were ready to head back to their respective associations for Pee Wee hockey.
So all in all, I think this horse was on it's last breathe going into March and the 93 team most likely delievered it's last blow.
Oh well, **** happens, enjoy your spring boys...
New England Prep School Hockey Recruiter
-
Statsman101
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:02 am
Re: One team
jancze5 wrote:With no excuse for the account of what happened with the 93 FIRE, it was one FIRE team that had obviously a blatant issue. It's a shame for the younger players in the program who will actually pay the price for one Coaching staffs issues.
The 94 Fire had every knowing knowledge that as a team they were not coming back next year for a run at Bantam Majors. With 2 players heading to Shattuck, a goalie most likely playing Varsity and a host of other kids heading to what will be an enjoybable Bantam A or B year.
The 95 Fire are playing this weekend in the WAHA playdown. I'm sure their books are going to be thoroughly gone through. They have had a great season and more than likely would have stayed together for at least one more year. Those associations that get these players back will be very happy with their ability.
The 96 Fire from my understanding have an understanding that they too would have been breaking apart as several players were ready to head back to their respective associations for Pee Wee hockey.
So all in all, I think this horse was on it's last breathe going into March and the 93 team most likely delievered it's last blow.
Oh well, **** happens, enjoy your spring boys...
This was my point that some rules have been bent. Janze I just wish Kids didn't pay the price for the adults that thought this was the way to go. Have a great summer.
-
greybeard58
- Posts: 2512
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm
This team did not bend the rules, they totally ignored them. You say one team, but the orginazation is responsible for the actions of all teams under its control, in this case the "Fire Hockey Club". Is this the only team with more than 20% of their players that are not from the District the team is registered in?
This is not the first time this orginazation has had problems and when a few District Directors from Mn Hockey stepped forward to try and protect their teams and associations by telling all to verify they were properly registered with USA Hockey some made it to be the fault of the District Directors for punishing the kids when in reality they were trying to protect the players with in their District.
Since this orginazation is under W.A.H.A. what further sanctions will be up to them, remember these rules that were broken were not of the minor or obscure variety but major registration and certification. The Head coach did not have to even attend a class, he could have done his update on line.
This is not the first time this orginazation has had problems and when a few District Directors from Mn Hockey stepped forward to try and protect their teams and associations by telling all to verify they were properly registered with USA Hockey some made it to be the fault of the District Directors for punishing the kids when in reality they were trying to protect the players with in their District.
Since this orginazation is under W.A.H.A. what further sanctions will be up to them, remember these rules that were broken were not of the minor or obscure variety but major registration and certification. The Head coach did not have to even attend a class, he could have done his update on line.
Greybeard - This sounds like a broken record. First they (FIRE) blame MN Hockey Directors, NOW they (FIRE) are trying to blame a former player's father - WHAT? Like he had control over if and when coaches were certified; or who was/wasn't on the team; or where home games were played...
There should be NO finger pointing from the FIRE, unless they are pointing in the MIRROR!
Again, I feel for the players. I know that all of them are great kids and very good hockey players.
FIRE parents and players should look no farther for THE BLAME than to the "leaders" of the team.
I don't know alot about the 93 team - But I want to congratulate the 95 Fire team for beating the Mission 6-5 in OT to advance on to the USA PeeWee Major National Tourney April 2nd in New Jersey - Great season, Great kids and a awesome coach - Hats off and congrats and good luck - You guys deserve it!!
Anyone know what kids on the ROSTER are from Minnesota and from where. Always fun to get an idea of what kids will be heard of in the future and for what high schools.SuperStar wrote:I want to congratulate the 95 Fire team for beating the Mission 6-5 in OT to advance on to the USA PeeWee Major National Tourney April 2nd in New Jersey
-
love2skate
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Evers G - St. Louis Park
3 McCoshen D - Hudson, WI
4 Hanna Gavic F - Hudson?
5 Patterson F - Minnesota
7 Pajor F - St. Louis Park
8 Wood D - Hudson
9 Hartley F - I think south part of Minneapolis
10 Tich F - MN - Minnesota
11 Lindstrom F - Minnesota
12 Cammarata F - Maple Grove
13 Damien F - Hudson?
17 Westphal F - with Hartley?
18 Meyer D - St peter
21 Jerry F - Minnesota?
22 Johnson F - Edina
33 Sprang - Rosemount
3 McCoshen D - Hudson, WI
4 Hanna Gavic F - Hudson?
5 Patterson F - Minnesota
7 Pajor F - St. Louis Park
8 Wood D - Hudson
9 Hartley F - I think south part of Minneapolis
10 Tich F - MN - Minnesota
11 Lindstrom F - Minnesota
12 Cammarata F - Maple Grove
13 Damien F - Hudson?
17 Westphal F - with Hartley?
18 Meyer D - St peter
21 Jerry F - Minnesota?
22 Johnson F - Edina
33 Sprang - Rosemount
Yeah, I have a roster for the fire. It is anyone who was born in 1993 that wants to play this weekend.Iceburg wrote:I'm planning on going to Shattuck on Saturday and watch a couple games. Looks like the Shattuck bantams play the Fire '93s. Does anyone have a Fire roster (hopefully with numbers) that they would care to post? I don't see one on their website.
Thank you.
You're right. Only one goalie and ten skaters there. Still a fun game. The Fire has some talented kids. Any idea who #96 (or was it 97? The memory is the first thing to go) might be. He's a tall, kind of thin defenseman that likes to handle the puck. Nice player.goep wrote:Yeah, I have a roster for the fire. It is anyone who was born in 1993 that wants to play this weekend.Iceburg wrote:I'm planning on going to Shattuck on Saturday and watch a couple games. Looks like the Shattuck bantams play the Fire '93s. Does anyone have a Fire roster (hopefully with numbers) that they would care to post? I don't see one on their website.
Thank you.
-
My_Kid_Loves_Hockey
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:25 am