I'm curious if anyone knows the reason that Buffalo does not want to play their 'A' teams in District 5 this year? They have approached the D5 board with this and were shot down.
I know there have been other requests from Buffalo to leave D5 altogether and there are issues between D5 and Buffalo with regards to their "tryout" tournament and re-rostering after the tournament.
This is not intended to be a Buffalo bash. I'm neither for nor against their association. I'm just curious as to their reasons.
Here is a quote from the Buffalo YHA newsletter outlining what they're going through.
"— Doug Kephart announced that D-5 would not re-roster
any squirts after they had already been rostered for the
Buffalo squirt tournament in November. In other words,
if a squirt team is rostered for that tournament, they are
rostered for good. We select our squirt A team after that
tournament and then re-roster all of the squirt teams.
Kephart said that such re-rostering will not be allowed.
He offered two reasons for this. First, we allow some “A”
players to play in the “B” tournament. Second, it is too
much work and ‘running around” for the D-5 folks to reroster.
Some arguments were made outlining the fact
that we have until the end of December to submit final
rosters, therefore this “rule” is out of order. That
argument was met with a response consistent with,
“we’ll talk about it later.” We could play the tournament
as a “festival” but teams outside of D-5 could not play.
— Buffalo announced that we would not play our A
teams in the D-5 schedule. We examined the history of
how we came to this step and the consensus was that
Buffalo will play where they are told to play by D-5. We
also heard, “we’ll talk about this later”. We suggested
that we take the issue to MN Hockey and seek a ruling.
D-5 President Tim Hanson said that if MN Hockey allows
us to remove our A teams from district play, it would
violate D-5 by-laws. If that is allowed to happen, then
we have become a lawless society and Hanson will quit in
protest. Jerberg had a brief private meeting with the D-5
board after the meeting. I am not aware of the outcome
of that meeting. Needless to say, the majority of the D-5
representatives were not sympathetic to the Buffalo
position.
— There will be a motion and discussion at the next D-5
meeting to levy fines against any association who does
not follow the by-laws."
Buffalo and D5
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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TriedThat2
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32HockeyFan
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32HockeyFan
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It started as competition but was obviously travel.32HockeyFan wrote:I'm not supporting nor condoning Buffalo's request.
I'm just wondering why? Is it strickly to play better competition? To avoid traveling to Willmar, Hutch and LDC? Are they just ticked off at D5 and want out?
Now I think it is all 3.
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TriedThat2
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32HockeyFan
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The longest travel in D5 would be Mound to Sartell.
Looking at the map, actually Buffalo is kind of in the center of 5 isn’t it?
Probly more to do with being a “AA” High school team going forward. Now there they have to travel if they play every team in 8AA, all the way to Roseau and Moorhead because they are at the bottom of the map.
Only Cold Spring and Monticello are “AA” due to being a coop. in D5.
The balance are single “A”.
Looking at the map, actually Buffalo is kind of in the center of 5 isn’t it?
Probly more to do with being a “AA” High school team going forward. Now there they have to travel if they play every team in 8AA, all the way to Roseau and Moorhead because they are at the bottom of the map.
Only Cold Spring and Monticello are “AA” due to being a coop. in D5.
The balance are single “A”.
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TriedThat2
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32HockeyFan
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Longest drive in D16, Bemidji to Hallock, approx. 150 miles - one way.
Bemidji's road trips (one way)
25
85
115
85
90
150
131
140
100
Of course they only have to make those trips once a year.
So that's only 1850 or so round trip.
Bantam A's to round out their VFW schedule add trips of
85, 130 and 130 (one way, of course).
But then we have the ability to go D12 for some added games at
75, 80, 120, 112.
And its nice to play Duluth and Cloquet so thats only 165, we can play multiple games on the weekend... so throw a motel room or two in there.
We all bear our crosses.
Bemidji's road trips (one way)
25
85
115
85
90
150
131
140
100
Of course they only have to make those trips once a year.
So that's only 1850 or so round trip.
Bantam A's to round out their VFW schedule add trips of
85, 130 and 130 (one way, of course).
But then we have the ability to go D12 for some added games at
75, 80, 120, 112.
And its nice to play Duluth and Cloquet so thats only 165, we can play multiple games on the weekend... so throw a motel room or two in there.
We all bear our crosses.
Interesting topic. For you geography buffs out there, Mound, St Michael and others do, at times cross through Buffalo territory to get to other D5 arenas. But Buffalo also borders on Rogers, Maple Grove and Elk River turf and is just a few nice golf shots away from Wayzata and Champlin Park. Quite a numer of Buffalo players come from the Corcoran/Hanover area.
Geography is definately an issue. It takes a family about 1 hour 15 mn to drive from Buffalo's arena to Willmar. In that same time, you can get to Hudson WI (crossing many different associations along the way.)
But the bigger issue is providing a challenge to the players. The rivalries in D5 have dwindled as many of the associations have fallen off the map numbers-wise. The last 2 years of Tim Sweezo's tenure Tim asked one western associations in particular, "What's going on out there?" In one years time the association had dropped from roughly 10 youth travelling teams to 5. There was never an answer.
There never seems to be a conversation within the district about improving play. Fines are collected for missing meetings, the ref-in-chief talks about coming out to associations to talk about reffing. All the usual minutia, but never a conversation about the level of play.
Instead, when the bar gets raised i.e. changing the regional playoff structure or the "points of emphasis" challenge, the conversation at the D5 meetings gets defensive. Instead of acknowledging that for many years D5 had a free ride to the state tournament many complained that the new regional structure was "too hard" and they worried that the points of emphasis was some plot to rid western MN of hockey.
Ultimately Buffalo wants to challenge itself with the full Minnesota Hockey experience. Getting to state through the Silver Region was a cruel joke. Nice to be there but nicer if it had been earned the same way White Bear or others had earned the trip.
So I guess thats the answer to your question 32hockeyfan. For 15 years Buffalo has asked to get out of D5 and in the last 3 years they have also tried to work out some compromises like 1 round of 4 point games. They have grieved things up through MN Hockey's process They have watched Waconia and Orono leave while others refused to join D5. It just seems that many (not all) in D5 are headed down a path Buffalo wants no part of but hasn't been able to get the Director (three directors now) to open the gate.
Geography is definately an issue. It takes a family about 1 hour 15 mn to drive from Buffalo's arena to Willmar. In that same time, you can get to Hudson WI (crossing many different associations along the way.)
But the bigger issue is providing a challenge to the players. The rivalries in D5 have dwindled as many of the associations have fallen off the map numbers-wise. The last 2 years of Tim Sweezo's tenure Tim asked one western associations in particular, "What's going on out there?" In one years time the association had dropped from roughly 10 youth travelling teams to 5. There was never an answer.
There never seems to be a conversation within the district about improving play. Fines are collected for missing meetings, the ref-in-chief talks about coming out to associations to talk about reffing. All the usual minutia, but never a conversation about the level of play.
Instead, when the bar gets raised i.e. changing the regional playoff structure or the "points of emphasis" challenge, the conversation at the D5 meetings gets defensive. Instead of acknowledging that for many years D5 had a free ride to the state tournament many complained that the new regional structure was "too hard" and they worried that the points of emphasis was some plot to rid western MN of hockey.
Ultimately Buffalo wants to challenge itself with the full Minnesota Hockey experience. Getting to state through the Silver Region was a cruel joke. Nice to be there but nicer if it had been earned the same way White Bear or others had earned the trip.
So I guess thats the answer to your question 32hockeyfan. For 15 years Buffalo has asked to get out of D5 and in the last 3 years they have also tried to work out some compromises like 1 round of 4 point games. They have grieved things up through MN Hockey's process They have watched Waconia and Orono leave while others refused to join D5. It just seems that many (not all) in D5 are headed down a path Buffalo wants no part of but hasn't been able to get the Director (three directors now) to open the gate.
Im criing for you over8ated, got some simple questions for you to ponder, in greatville. After reading the D-5 minutes i see where the one game for 4 points was voted and defeated by the board, Do want Buffalo to dictate the district after the the vote. The vote seems pretty democratic to me.
Second question , how many times has Buffalo went to the board with a suggestion or a motion to change anything. Ive looked back at the previous minutes posted on the website and dont find anything from Buffalo.
Third, if three directors have all said no , can you not see something in this , it is not just one person with a hard on for Buffalo.,, and if i remember right, Buffalo had a president residing over this board afew years ago, seems to me if Buffalo wanted out that bad, that the strings would have been pulled at that time to get you out,,,,
Last i believe Mn Hockey made up the regionals for entry to the state. go tell the kids they didnt earn thier way to state, at least the ones that did make it, they played the games to get there, some made it some didnt, its not the kids fault of the plan, and i dont think many of them were complaining when they got there that they should have played somebody else , and i dont ever remember Buffalo not showing up for it because they didnt deserve it, maybe its a parent thing, no that never happens in hockey
Second question , how many times has Buffalo went to the board with a suggestion or a motion to change anything. Ive looked back at the previous minutes posted on the website and dont find anything from Buffalo.
Third, if three directors have all said no , can you not see something in this , it is not just one person with a hard on for Buffalo.,, and if i remember right, Buffalo had a president residing over this board afew years ago, seems to me if Buffalo wanted out that bad, that the strings would have been pulled at that time to get you out,,,,
Last i believe Mn Hockey made up the regionals for entry to the state. go tell the kids they didnt earn thier way to state, at least the ones that did make it, they played the games to get there, some made it some didnt, its not the kids fault of the plan, and i dont think many of them were complaining when they got there that they should have played somebody else , and i dont ever remember Buffalo not showing up for it because they didnt deserve it, maybe its a parent thing, no that never happens in hockey
I don't remember Buffalo ever getting to State through that cruel Silver Region at the A level in Bantams or Peewees and my kids played from 2001-2005. While they are an up and coming program maybe they should put the horse before the cart and actually do something in the youth levelsover8ted wrote:Interesting topic. For you geography buffs out there, Mound, St Michael and others do, at times cross through Buffalo territory to get to other D5 arenas. But Buffalo also borders on Rogers, Maple Grove and Elk River turf and is just a few nice golf shots away from Wayzata and Champlin Park. Quite a numer of Buffalo players come from the Corcoran/Hanover area.
Geography is definately an issue. It takes a family about 1 hour 15 mn to drive from Buffalo's arena to Willmar. In that same time, you can get to Hudson WI (crossing many different associations along the way.)
But the bigger issue is providing a challenge to the players. The rivalries in D5 have dwindled as many of the associations have fallen off the map numbers-wise. The last 2 years of Tim Sweezo's tenure Tim asked one western associations in particular, "What's going on out there?" In one years time the association had dropped from roughly 10 youth travelling teams to 5. There was never an answer.
There never seems to be a conversation within the district about improving play. Fines are collected for missing meetings, the ref-in-chief talks about coming out to associations to talk about reffing. All the usual minutia, but never a conversation about the level of play.
Instead, when the bar gets raised i.e. changing the regional playoff structure or the "points of emphasis" challenge, the conversation at the D5 meetings gets defensive. Instead of acknowledging that for many years D5 had a free ride to the state tournament many complained that the new regional structure was "too hard" and they worried that the points of emphasis was some plot to rid western MN of hockey.
Ultimately Buffalo wants to challenge itself with the full Minnesota Hockey experience. Getting to state through the Silver Region was a cruel joke. Nice to be there but nicer if it had been earned the same way White Bear or others had earned the trip.
So I guess thats the answer to your question 32hockeyfan. For 15 years Buffalo has asked to get out of D5 and in the last 3 years they have also tried to work out some compromises like 1 round of 4 point games. They have grieved things up through MN Hockey's process They have watched Waconia and Orono leave while others refused to join D5. It just seems that many (not all) in D5 are headed down a path Buffalo wants no part of but hasn't been able to get the Director (three directors now) to open the gate.
Hi, puckeyone. Thanks for the reply. I'll take a stab at your questions. The one round of 4 games has been offered up as a solution to free up all D5 teams to play more games outside of D5, not just Buffalo. And yes, it was voted down this year and last. Very democratic. It is just one attempt to improve things. If other associations have ideas I'm sure the D5 board would put them to a vote as well.
Buffalo does not make many motions at the district board meetings, and they haven't had much to do with positions on the board itself. Kind of goes hand in hand with wanting out which leads to your third question. I don't believe Buffalo has had a president or anyone on the executive committee in the 10 years I have been in Buffalo. It would smell a little funny to take a board position only to get out.
And your last question. I vividly recall sitting in the stands before one of Buffalo's state tourney appearances, listening to a group of parents predicting the outcome of our game. I didn't want to hear it so I moved along only to find myself next to a small group of coaches. They were speculating that Buffalo's opponent would be tough to play the next day because they could play their fourth line every other shift against Buffalo. Did it ruin the kids state tournament? I doubt it. But those people did have a point. There were prob 20 teams sitting at home that weekend that could have beaten us 9 of 10 times. Its nice to see the new regional format. The next time Buffalo makes it, they will know they earned it.
I hope Mr Elliott is right about the renewed effort at redistricting. There needs to be more competative balance throughout the state and a formula for keeping it that way. It will be interesting to see if the DD's can look past their immediate interests and come up with a long term plan. Something that works for the haves and the have nots and challenges everyone to improve their game.
Buffalo does not make many motions at the district board meetings, and they haven't had much to do with positions on the board itself. Kind of goes hand in hand with wanting out which leads to your third question. I don't believe Buffalo has had a president or anyone on the executive committee in the 10 years I have been in Buffalo. It would smell a little funny to take a board position only to get out.
And your last question. I vividly recall sitting in the stands before one of Buffalo's state tourney appearances, listening to a group of parents predicting the outcome of our game. I didn't want to hear it so I moved along only to find myself next to a small group of coaches. They were speculating that Buffalo's opponent would be tough to play the next day because they could play their fourth line every other shift against Buffalo. Did it ruin the kids state tournament? I doubt it. But those people did have a point. There were prob 20 teams sitting at home that weekend that could have beaten us 9 of 10 times. Its nice to see the new regional format. The next time Buffalo makes it, they will know they earned it.
I hope Mr Elliott is right about the renewed effort at redistricting. There needs to be more competative balance throughout the state and a formula for keeping it that way. It will be interesting to see if the DD's can look past their immediate interests and come up with a long term plan. Something that works for the haves and the have nots and challenges everyone to improve their game.
Buff puck
Nice point Davey. I remember watching Buff in the previous A bantam regional format struggle handily with the D4 teams they faced. Owatonna must really be a stickler in over8td eye's, although it sounds like he might have blanked those games out.
I remember Buffalo making State appearances in 03-04 at the Bantam A level and the Bantam B team in 04-05. I believe there were other trips as well. The loss to Owatanna (Bantam A 04-05) still stings, that might have been Buffalo's nicest team in a while, but they still had a great year.
I like Davey's horse before the cart comment though. Its more about the road you take than where you end up at the end. Buffalo wants the journey.
I like Davey's horse before the cart comment though. Its more about the road you take than where you end up at the end. Buffalo wants the journey.
Re: Buff puck
Jackstraw-Buffalo went to the state bantam tournament 3 times in 2000's...FYI...I watched Owatanna get crushed 10-0 by Edina and watched Buffalo beat Eden Prairie the same year...point is even a blind pig finds a acorn once in a while.jackstraw wrote:Nice point Davey. I remember watching Buff in the previous A bantam regional format struggle handily with the D4 teams they faced. Owatonna must really be a stickler in over8td eye's, although it sounds like he might have blanked those games out.
unpuckeyone- Sounds like your the one with it in for Buffalo...Let's face the facts Buffalo is now an outer ring suberb of Mpls and has alot more in common with Maple Grove then it does Paynesville. Buffalo is stuck and looking to improve it's situation...guess that is hard to understand for those wishing Buffalo nothing but the worst.puckeyone wrote:Im criing for you over8ated, got some simple questions for you to ponder, in greatville. After reading the D-5 minutes i see where the one game for 4 points was voted and defeated by the board, Do want Buffalo to dictate the district after the the vote. The vote seems pretty democratic to me.
Second question , how many times has Buffalo went to the board with a suggestion or a motion to change anything. Ive looked back at the previous minutes posted on the website and dont find anything from Buffalo.
Third, if three directors have all said no , can you not see something in this , it is not just one person with a hard on for Buffalo.,, and if i remember right, Buffalo had a president residing over this board afew years ago, seems to me if Buffalo wanted out that bad, that the strings would have been pulled at that time to get you out,,,,
Last i believe Mn Hockey made up the regionals for entry to the state. go tell the kids they didnt earn thier way to state, at least the ones that did make it, they played the games to get there, some made it some didnt, its not the kids fault of the plan, and i dont think many of them were complaining when they got there that they should have played somebody else , and i dont ever remember Buffalo not showing up for it because they didnt deserve it, maybe its a parent thing, no that never happens in hockey