What determines an associations top team placement?!

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dump and chase
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What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by dump and chase » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:34 am

If an association has 5 teams at a level, "Peewee in this example", why would their top team only be a single A team.

Conservatively that's 65 skaters in that association, just curious why they wouldn't want to play AA.

Development advantages?

Team sizes? More ice?

Hang banners?

zooomx
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Re: What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by zooomx » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:28 pm

dump and chase wrote:If an association has 5 teams at a level, "Peewee in this example", why would their top team only be a single A team.

Conservatively that's 65 skaters in that association, just curious why they wouldn't want to play AA.

Development advantages?

Team sizes? More ice?

Hang banners?
They play the level that the high school they feed is in. They can opt up as Hermantown does, but many choose not to. Not sure if there is any good alternative. Every association and every district is different. Outstate "A" often looks far different that Metro "A". Same for B1. It's a mess with no good solution.

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Re: What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by elliott70 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:16 pm

zooomx wrote:
dump and chase wrote:If an association has 5 teams at a level, "Peewee in this example", why would their top team only be a single A team.

Conservatively that's 65 skaters in that association, just curious why they wouldn't want to play AA.

Development advantages?

Team sizes? More ice?

Hang banners?
They play the level that the high school they feed is in. They can opt up as Hermantown does, but many choose not to. Not sure if there is any good alternative. Every association and every district is different. Outstate "A" often looks far different that Metro "A". Same for B1. It's a mess with no good solution.
They can also opt down with a review and approval.

Besides AA versus A (which both are technically A level, the district director is the ultimate authority as to what level a team is placed at. This is seldom done and usually the local association decides.

The Exiled One
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Re: What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by The Exiled One » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:41 pm

zooomx wrote:They play the level that the high school they feed is in. They can opt up as Hermantown does, but many choose not to. Not sure if there is any good alternative. Every association and every district is different. Outstate "A" often looks far different that Metro "A". Same for B1. It's a mess with no good solution.
I posted this before and I'll post it yet again, we've got the labels backwards. The lowest level should be Level 1 and they should go up from there.

C = 1
B2 = 2
B1 = 3
A = 4
AA = 5

"B" tournaments would go away. You're either a Level 2 tournament or a Level 3 tournament. Teams can opt up into tournaments at their discretion and with tournament organizer approval.

Non-district games can be scheduled up or down one level.

This would result in better definition of levels and more flexibility in scheduling.

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:06 am

Rochester has 3 AA high school teams, has one one youth association. They played zero bantam AA teams, one bantam A team....that went 0-2 in the district tournament. Forcing them to be AA would have been a travesty. Leave it up to the association.

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:07 pm

goldy313 wrote:Rochester has 3 AA high school teams, has one one youth association. They played zero bantam AA teams, one bantam A team....that went 0-2 in the district tournament. Forcing them to be AA would have been a travesty. Leave it up to the association.
5 Bantam teams, and the top team is A, and they were weak?? Something seems odd. Did they lose a bunch of Bantam aged players to the high school team?

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:46 am

zooomx wrote:
goldy313 wrote:Rochester has 3 AA high school teams, has one one youth association. They played zero bantam AA teams, one bantam A team....that went 0-2 in the district tournament. Forcing them to be AA would have been a travesty. Leave it up to the association.
5 Bantam teams, and the top team is A, and they were weak?? Something seems odd. Did they lose a bunch of Bantam aged players to the high school team?
4 high schools, maybe 5 varsity players give or take and John Marshalland Lourdes were poor. Demographics are changing as well, Rochester has a strange demographic with a large number of upper class......doctors, researchers, and advanced practice nurses (phd's and masters) all individually making in the 6 figures, ....and large lower class with a pretty small middle class. Basically the opposite of a bell curve.....upper class kids swim, play tennis, golf, xc, etc. Not hockey or football by and large.

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:13 pm

goldy313 wrote:
zooomx wrote:
goldy313 wrote:Rochester has 3 AA high school teams, has one one youth association. They played zero bantam AA teams, one bantam A team....that went 0-2 in the district tournament. Forcing them to be AA would have been a travesty. Leave it up to the association.
5 Bantam teams, and the top team is A, and they were weak?? Something seems odd. Did they lose a bunch of Bantam aged players to the high school team?
4 high schools, maybe 5 varsity players give or take and John Marshalland Lourdes were poor. Demographics are changing as well, Rochester has a strange demographic with a large number of upper class......doctors, researchers, and advanced practice nurses (phd's and masters) all individually making in the 6 figures, ....and large lower class with a pretty small middle class. Basically the opposite of a bell curve.....upper class kids swim, play tennis, golf, xc, etc. Not hockey or football by and large.
Demographics explain why more kids are not playing hockey. The association is actually pretty big in terms of number of teams. However, one youth program feeding 4 high school teams does not bode well for the high school teams. I am curious as to why they have 5 teams at the Bantam level, and the top team is a weak A team. I would guess most associations with 5 teams at Bantams, would have a legitimate AA team at the top.

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:19 am

Meh.....a city with 120,000 should be able to field more than 5 16 player bantam teams. 30 years ago Rochester fielded 14 to 16 bantam teams (including Dodge County) with a population of 70,000 to 80,000.

Redarmy19
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Post by Redarmy19 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:36 pm

zooomx wrote:
5 Bantam teams, and the top team is A, and they were weak?? Something seems odd. Did they lose a bunch of Bantam aged players to the high school team?

My guess is this is the case. The leading scorer for Mayo Varsity was an 8th grader who completely skipped Bantams.

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:22 am

Redarmy19 wrote:
zooomx wrote:
5 Bantam teams, and the top team is A, and they were weak?? Something seems odd. Did they lose a bunch of Bantam aged players to the high school team?

My guess is this is the case. The leading scorer for Mayo Varsity was an 8th grader who completely skipped Bantams.
No. A couple left bantams but only 2 made any difference in high school. Mayo was not a good team and played in a bad conference so take it with a grain of salt.

blueline_6
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Re: What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by blueline_6 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:33 pm

Okay, to anyone still following this topic, I'll throw this one out there:

You have 49 skaters at Bantams. How many teams do you declare and with what roster sizes? (FYI - your district does not have a Bantam C league)

bardown27
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Re: What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by bardown27 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 pm

blueline_6 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:33 pm
Okay, to anyone still following this topic, I'll throw this one out there:

You have 49 skaters at Bantams. How many teams do you declare and with what roster sizes? (FYI - your district does not have a Bantam C league)
How many goalies at that level? Is the top team going to be a AA or an A team?

blueline_6
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Re: What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by blueline_6 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:47 pm

bardown27 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 pm
blueline_6 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:33 pm
Okay, to anyone still following this topic, I'll throw this one out there:

You have 49 skaters at Bantams. How many teams do you declare and with what roster sizes? (FYI - your district does not have a Bantam C league)
How many goalies at that level? Is the top team going to be a AA or an A team?
7 goalies. The High School is AA (by enrollment). Historically the association has done AA/B1/B2 teams. The last two years they have had four teams - AA/B1/B2x2. The District has a rule that the top team at every age level cannot have less than 14 skaters.

bardown27
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Re: What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by bardown27 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:15 pm

blueline_6 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:47 pm
bardown27 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 pm
blueline_6 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:33 pm
Okay, to anyone still following this topic, I'll throw this one out there:

You have 49 skaters at Bantams. How many teams do you declare and with what roster sizes? (FYI - your district does not have a Bantam C league)
How many goalies at that level? Is the top team going to be a AA or an A team?
7 goalies. The High School is AA (by enrollment). Historically the association has done AA/B1/B2 teams. The last two years they have had four teams - AA/B1/B2x2. The District has a rule that the top team at every age level cannot have less than 14 skaters.
It's tough. You don't have quite enough for four teams to make sense, but you have so many goalies where you'd probably need four teams to have spots for 7 goalies.

AA team IMO should have 15 skaters (9F 6D). That leaves you with 34 skaters. If you decide to go four teams, do you go 14 @ B1 level and then both B2 teams have 10 apiece? Or you could take 12 @ the B1 level and then have each B2 team have 11.

Tough situation. #'s wise three teams would probably be ideal from a skater perspective, but not from a goalie perspective.

Goose21
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Re: What determines an associations top team placement?!

Post by Goose21 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:46 pm

blueline_6 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:47 pm
bardown27 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 pm
blueline_6 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:33 pm
Okay, to anyone still following this topic, I'll throw this one out there:

You have 49 skaters at Bantams. How many teams do you declare and with what roster sizes? (FYI - your district does not have a Bantam C league)
How many goalies at that level? Is the top team going to be a AA or an A team?
7 goalies. The High School is AA (by enrollment). Historically the association has done AA/B1/B2 teams. The last two years they have had four teams - AA/B1/B2x2. The District has a rule that the top team at every age level cannot have less than 14 skaters.
I would look at where they talent divides are. Based on that:
4 Teams:
AA=14 (2)
B1=12 (2)
B1/B2=12 (1or2)
B/2 =11 (1 or 2)

3 Teams:
AA= 15 (2)
B1=17 (2)
B2=17 (3)
Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheck

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