AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

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WestMetro
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AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by WestMetro » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:56 pm

AA Kids with over 20 Points Thru Feb 13. Excuse errors or omissions.

Would be interesting if anyone has historical comparisons handy, but have got to think Kukkonen and Blake torrid pace of 4 points per game hasnt been matched? in AA since at least the Justin Kloos era? Or, if not then , when?



 Name  Team  GP  G  A  PTS  AVG PTS
Kyle Kukkonen Maple Grove 9 15 24 39 4.33
Sam Jacobs Maple Grove 9 18 12 30 3.33
Garrett Schifsky Andover 9 12 14 26 2.89
Chris Kernan Maple Grove 9 10 16 26 2.89
Jackson Blake Eden Prairie 6 9 16 25 4.17
Lucas Hand St. Louis Park 10 10 15 25 2.5
Sam Ranallo Rogers 9 11 14 25 2.78
Carter Batchelder Eden Prairie 9 14 10 24 2.67
Cam Boche Lakeville South 9 11 13 24 2.67
Cayden Casey Elk River/Zimmerman 10 13 10 23 2.3
Kade Nielsen Burnsville 10 14 9 23 2.3
Gavyn Thoreson Andover 9 3 19 22 2.44
Tanner Ludtke Lakeville South 9 6 16 22 2.44
Drew Holt Eden Prairie 9 5 16 21 2.33
Jackson Hallum St. Thomas Academy 8 8 13 21 2.62
Sully Scholle Chaska 10 11 10 21 2.1
Adam Marshall Benilde-St. Margaret's 10 11 10 21 2.1
Austin Burnevik Totino Grace 6 11 10 21 3.5

Stang5280
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by Stang5280 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:40 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:56 pm
Would be interesting if anyone has historical comparisons handy, but have got to think Kukkonen and Blake torrid pace of 4 points per game hasnt been matched? in AA since at least the Justin Kloos era? Or, if not then , when?
In 2011-12, Justin Kloos had 81 points in 25 regular season games (3.24) and 103 overall in 31 games (3.32). So even he didn’t come close to that pace.

Spehar had 100 points in 26 total games as a senior, and I think he may be the closest AA player to 4 ppg.

PuckNA
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by PuckNA » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:09 pm

All that is crap this year... I mean come on you run your top line all game in a shooting gallery in SLP and then we pat them on the back for points? I mean KK has 9 pts (line has 17 pts) against SLP and played all game, every other... 6 pts against Dodge County (line had 16pts).. Not to mention the 14 pts that line put up against Osseo.. Can't wait until they run them all game in CRapids and try and score 30... Keep throwing that top line out... good for sure... but come on, it's sad. But, guess pts are needed for Mr. Hockey..

Competition is not at the level it should be for these type of comparisons this year in many of these sections. Hardly any like comparisons of opponents.

WestMetro
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by WestMetro » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:56 pm

Yeah , Maple Grove schedule to date has been weaker in comparison to their own normal first half . Has given Kk some more opportunities. Second half will average out somewhat .

EP schedule since Blake return also a little soft , will get tougher

Will be interesting to see how KK and JB ave pts per game stats hold up thru 18 games and playoffs

I suppose impossible to compare SOS for those two later after full 2021 year, compared to Kloos or Spehar in their peak years .

I do remember Kloos had a lot of shifts the whole year , and had some big point games against weaker opponents. But he also had someone hanging right on him a lot of games against decent opponents

Karl or Lee might better remember Spe’s regular season years SOS , everyone remembers the tourneys

MNHockeyFan
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by MNHockeyFan » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:04 am

PuckNA wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:09 pm
Competition is not at the level it should be for these type of comparisons this year in many of these sections. Hardly any like comparisons of opponents.
As long as the current conference and section system(s) remain in place I don't think it's possible to eliminate the kind of lopsided results and crazy individual scoring that we're seeing across the entire state - North, Metro, and South. Maybe a discussion best left for the post-season, as the structure we're dealing with now is not going to change this season.

InThePipes
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by InThePipes » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:45 am

MNHockeyFan wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:04 am
PuckNA wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:09 pm
Competition is not at the level it should be for these type of comparisons this year in many of these sections. Hardly any like comparisons of opponents.
As long as the current conference and section system(s) remain in place I don't think it's possible to eliminate the kind of lopsided results and crazy individual scoring that we're seeing across the entire state - North, Metro, and South. Maybe a discussion best left for the post-season, as the structure we're dealing with now is not going to change this season.
Plus these conference schedules have always existed in the past years as well. The difference is for the teams in the Suburban East, South Suburban and NW Suburban where they typically played early season & holiday tournaments in addition to a few select non-conference games to strengthen their schedule. The % of lopsided games were probably 15-20% in a normal year, but it'll be 25-30% of the games this year due to the abbreviated schedule and inability of those teams to play outside of their conference.

east hockey
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by east hockey » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:30 am

WestMetro wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:56 pm
Yeah , Maple Grove schedule to date has been weaker in comparison to their own normal first half . Has given Kk some more opportunities. Second half will average out somewhat .

EP schedule since Blake return also a little soft , will get tougher

Will be interesting to see how KK and JB ave pts per game stats hold up thru 18 games and playoffs

I suppose impossible to compare SOS for those two later after full 2021 year, compared to Kloos or Spehar in their peak years .

I do remember Kloos had a lot of shifts the whole year , and had some big point games against weaker opponents. But he also had someone hanging right on him a lot of games against decent opponents

Karl or Lee might better remember Spe’s regular season years SOS , everyone remembers the tourneys
What some might remember is that East was in the Lake Superior Conference in those days--this greatly aided running up some big numbers for guys like Spehar and Locker. PageStat doesn't go back that far (yet) so there is no reliable way to calculate SOS. But their competition was certainly not weak when Spehar recorded three straight hat tricks in the State Tournament, was it?

You could say that nobody being able to duplicate Spehar's numbers was due to East leaving the LSC in 1999 (Garrett Worth came close in his senior year!), or you could say it's because nobody has come along with Dave's scoring prowess. I tend to land in the middle of that argument (a nice safe place to land :) )

Lee
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BlueLineSpecial
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by BlueLineSpecial » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:51 am

This sort of thing gets brought up a lot in sports or leagues where there are a handful of dominant teams and then a whole bunch of average to bad teams. One group will argue something to the effect of: well it's your job to stop them from scoring; the other group argues that it's in bad taste and unsportsmanlike to leave in top-end players and/or continue to push the action when the game is out of reach.

If you look at results so far this year, EP isn't necessarily running it up on anyone. A lot of their scores are 6-2, 5-1 and their competition is decently tough. Maple Grove on the other hand has 3 double-digit scoring games, two more where they scored 9 and another two where they scored 8. And those games aren't high-scoring back-and-forth affairs - they're just destroying the other team. The lopsidedness of these scores sure feels like they are continuing to put the pedal to the metal for 51 minutes. Can't say I blame them, if this is your only competition and it's not within your control to play higher-level teams. Comparatively then though, what JB is doing for EP is much more impressive. Would have been nice to see what these kids would be doing in a normal year against a more typical set of opponents. Darn you, Covid!
The City of Hill Murray is beautiful this time of year

Rails Hockey
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by Rails Hockey » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:53 am

east hockey wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:30 am
WestMetro wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:56 pm
Yeah , Maple Grove schedule to date has been weaker in comparison to their own normal first half . Has given Kk some more opportunities. Second half will average out somewhat .

EP schedule since Blake return also a little soft , will get tougher

Will be interesting to see how KK and JB ave pts per game stats hold up thru 18 games and playoffs

I suppose impossible to compare SOS for those two later after full 2021 year, compared to Kloos or Spehar in their peak years .

I do remember Kloos had a lot of shifts the whole year , and had some big point games against weaker opponents. But he also had someone hanging right on him a lot of games against decent opponents

Karl or Lee might better remember Spe’s regular season years SOS , everyone remembers the tourneys
What some might remember is that East was in the Lake Superior Conference in those days--this greatly aided running up some big numbers for guys like Spehar and Locker. PageStat doesn't go back that far (yet) so there is no reliable way to calculate SOS. But their competition was certainly not weak when Spehar recorded three straight hat tricks in the State Tournament, was it?

You could say that nobody being able to duplicate Spehar's numbers was due to East leaving the LSC in 1999 (Garrett Worth came close in his senior year!), or you could say it's because nobody has come along with Dave's scoring prowess. I tend to land in the middle of that argument (a nice safe place to land :) )

Lee
Do you have the scores from their conference games in those years? Reaching into the memory bank from ‘95, (Spehar’s Junior year and 3 hat tricks at State) they split with Denfeld, including a 2-0 loss. Superior won the Wi state tourney that year. Proctor was a #1 seed in 5A. Don’t remember what Cloquet had or how good Hermantown was. Assume Marshall was not good, but was the LSC really that weak then?

east hockey
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by east hockey » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:02 am

Rails Hockey wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:53 am
east hockey wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:30 am
WestMetro wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:56 pm
Yeah , Maple Grove schedule to date has been weaker in comparison to their own normal first half . Has given Kk some more opportunities. Second half will average out somewhat .

EP schedule since Blake return also a little soft , will get tougher

Will be interesting to see how KK and JB ave pts per game stats hold up thru 18 games and playoffs

I suppose impossible to compare SOS for those two later after full 2021 year, compared to Kloos or Spehar in their peak years .

I do remember Kloos had a lot of shifts the whole year , and had some big point games against weaker opponents. But he also had someone hanging right on him a lot of games against decent opponents

Karl or Lee might better remember Spe’s regular season years SOS , everyone remembers the tourneys
What some might remember is that East was in the Lake Superior Conference in those days--this greatly aided running up some big numbers for guys like Spehar and Locker. PageStat doesn't go back that far (yet) so there is no reliable way to calculate SOS. But their competition was certainly not weak when Spehar recorded three straight hat tricks in the State Tournament, was it?

You could say that nobody being able to duplicate Spehar's numbers was due to East leaving the LSC in 1999 (Garrett Worth came close in his senior year!), or you could say it's because nobody has come along with Dave's scoring prowess. I tend to land in the middle of that argument (a nice safe place to land :) )

Lee
Do you have the scores from their conference games in those years? Reaching into the memory bank from ‘95, (Spehar’s Junior year and 3 hat tricks at State) they split with Denfeld, including a 2-0 loss. Superior won the Wi state tourney that year. Proctor was a #1 seed in 5A. Don’t remember what Cloquet had or how good Hermantown was. Assume Marshall was not good, but was the LSC really that weak then?
All were wins for East:

Central 9-1, 7-0
Denfeld 13-0, 0-2(!!!!)
Superior 5-2, 8-2
Cloquet 8-0, 8-1
Proctor 4-2
Hermantown 13-0
Marshall 21-0
Silver Bay 9-0
Two Harbors 11-1

Average score in LSC games was 8.9-0.8. The average score in their non-conference games (regular season) was 6.1-4.2. Weak? I certainly think so.

Lee
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Rails Hockey
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by Rails Hockey » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:38 am

Thanks for the info. Yes, very weak. I completely forgot about Two Harbors and Silver Bay and yikes on those Marshall and Hermantown scores. Outside of the loss to Denfeld it looks like the Rails gave them their only good game that year. Aaah, the good ole days....

SpreadOut!
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by SpreadOut! » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:58 pm

I didn’t see MG’s game against SLP, but I highly doubt that Kukkonen’s line played every other shift, as MG is very deep and typically runs at minimum three lines, and more likely four lines when they are ahead. My guess is that Kukkonen’s line likely scored darn near every time they were on the ice. Also, keep in mind that Kukkonen led the Elite League this year in scoring. He scores frequently, no matter the competition. Also, MG has lost 3-4 kids from their dominant Bantam AA team when these seniors were 9th graders (Faber, Janicke, etc), but this group has always beat teams by lopsided margins going back to squirts. Heck, I think they beat EP (with Blake, etc) something like 8-2 in Bantam AA championship when they were 9th graders. MG is just a very deep and talented team. Their JV team also kicks the snot out of everyone. It is what it is this year, and could be worse if Faber, Janicke, etc. were still around.

InThePipes
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by InThePipes » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:03 pm

SpreadOut! wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:58 pm

Also, keep in mind that Kukkonen led the Elite League this year in scoring. He scores frequently, no matter the competition.
Over 2.5 points per game in HSEL/IIT, so you're correct that what he's doing now shouldn't be surprising.

Stang5280
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:53 pm

Why is your first line on the ice at all when you are up 14-1 after two, much less scoring a goal in the final minute? Give them a rest and let the fourth line have some run. SLP was apparently very classy, because they were whistled for only one penalty. Why risk having one of your star players injured during running time in a game that is already well out of hand?

That’s my perspective after reading through this thread and perusing the box score of that 19-2 debacle.

Stang5280
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:05 pm

east hockey wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:02 am
All were wins for East:

Central 9-1, 7-0
Denfeld 13-0, 0-2(!!!!)
Superior 5-2, 8-2
Cloquet 8-0, 8-1
Proctor 4-2
Hermantown 13-0
Marshall 21-0
Silver Bay 9-0
Two Harbors 11-1

Average score in LSC games was 8.9-0.8. The average score in their non-conference games (regular season) was 6.1-4.2. Weak? I certainly think so.

Lee
I randomly happened to be at that 2-0 Denfeld upset (long story). The atmosphere at the DECC that evening was both tense and intense. I don’t recall the name of the Hunters’ goalie, but he had the game of his life. If you played that game 1,000 times I don’t know if Denfeld could hold East scoreless again.

SpreadOut!
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by SpreadOut! » Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:19 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:53 pm
Why is your first line on the ice at all when you are up 14-1 after two, much less scoring a goal in the final minute? Give them a rest and let the fourth line have some run. SLP was apparently very classy, because they were whistled for only one penalty. Why risk having one of your star players injured during running time in a game that is already well out of hand?

That’s my perspective after reading through this thread and perusing the box score of that 19-2 debacle.
I won’t argue with you on your point, especially considering Kukkonen broke his leg last year and missed most of season as a result.

east hockey
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by east hockey » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:25 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:05 pm
east hockey wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:02 am
All were wins for East:

Central 9-1, 7-0
Denfeld 13-0, 0-2(!!!!)
Superior 5-2, 8-2
Cloquet 8-0, 8-1
Proctor 4-2
Hermantown 13-0
Marshall 21-0
Silver Bay 9-0
Two Harbors 11-1

Average score in LSC games was 8.9-0.8. The average score in their non-conference games (regular season) was 6.1-4.2. Weak? I certainly think so.

Lee
I randomly happened to be at that 2-0 Denfeld upset (long story). The atmosphere at the DECC that evening was both tense and intense. I don’t recall the name of the Hunters’ goalie, but he had the game of his life. If you played that game 1,000 times I don’t know if Denfeld could hold East scoreless again.
Andy Zapp was Denfeld's goalie.

Funny--I had been following the Hounds closely, but my brother hadn't. I took him to that game; after telling him what a scoring machine East had in Spehar, Locker & Co. (and they sure did that year), we settled into our seats with our popcorn. I said "Okay boys, fire at will" just before the puck drop.

Two hours later we left the DECC in stunned silence. :oops:

Lee
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Fightinghawklover
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by Fightinghawklover » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:06 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:56 pm
AA Kids with over 20 Points Thru Feb 13. Excuse errors or omissions.

Would be interesting if anyone has historical comparisons handy, but have got to think Kukkonen and Blake torrid pace of 4 points per game hasnt been matched? in AA since at least the Justin Kloos era? Or, if not then , when?



 Name  Team  GP  G  A  PTS  AVG PTS
Kyle Kukkonen Maple Grove 9 15 24 39 4.33
Sam Jacobs Maple Grove 9 18 12 30 3.33
Garrett Schifsky Andover 9 12 14 26 2.89
Chris Kernan Maple Grove 9 10 16 26 2.89
Jackson Blake Eden Prairie 6 9 16 25 4.17
Lucas Hand St. Louis Park 10 10 15 25 2.5
Sam Ranallo Rogers 9 11 14 25 2.78
Carter Batchelder Eden Prairie 9 14 10 24 2.67
Cam Boche Lakeville South 9 11 13 24 2.67
Cayden Casey Elk River/Zimmerman 10 13 10 23 2.3
Kade Nielsen Burnsville 10 14 9 23 2.3
Gavyn Thoreson Andover 9 3 19 22 2.44
Tanner Ludtke Lakeville South 9 6 16 22 2.44
Drew Holt Eden Prairie 9 5 16 21 2.33
Jackson Hallum St. Thomas Academy 8 8 13 21 2.62
Sully Scholle Chaska 10 11 10 21 2.1
Adam Marshall Benilde-St. Margaret's 10 11 10 21 2.1
Austin Burnevik Totino Grace 6 11 10 21 3.5
Quite the list. I wonder how many of these totals are accurate, coaches have been know to inflate some of these totals. Our team played one of the players on this list on Saturday who magically received two second assists overnight and Sunday morning had 4 points in the game when video evidence proves he only had two points.

WestMetro
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by WestMetro » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:52 pm

I mean this is the official scoring. Suppose it’s not perfect but it’s what is turned in and posted to the Hub

TheNightman
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by TheNightman » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:03 pm

Fightinghawklover wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:06 pm
WestMetro wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:56 pm
AA Kids with over 20 Points Thru Feb 13. Excuse errors or omissions.

Would be interesting if anyone has historical comparisons handy, but have got to think Kukkonen and Blake torrid pace of 4 points per game hasnt been matched? in AA since at least the Justin Kloos era? Or, if not then , when?



 Name  Team  GP  G  A  PTS  AVG PTS
Kyle Kukkonen Maple Grove 9 15 24 39 4.33
Sam Jacobs Maple Grove 9 18 12 30 3.33
Garrett Schifsky Andover 9 12 14 26 2.89
Chris Kernan Maple Grove 9 10 16 26 2.89
Jackson Blake Eden Prairie 6 9 16 25 4.17
Lucas Hand St. Louis Park 10 10 15 25 2.5
Sam Ranallo Rogers 9 11 14 25 2.78
Carter Batchelder Eden Prairie 9 14 10 24 2.67
Cam Boche Lakeville South 9 11 13 24 2.67
Cayden Casey Elk River/Zimmerman 10 13 10 23 2.3
Kade Nielsen Burnsville 10 14 9 23 2.3
Gavyn Thoreson Andover 9 3 19 22 2.44
Tanner Ludtke Lakeville South 9 6 16 22 2.44
Drew Holt Eden Prairie 9 5 16 21 2.33
Jackson Hallum St. Thomas Academy 8 8 13 21 2.62
Sully Scholle Chaska 10 11 10 21 2.1
Adam Marshall Benilde-St. Margaret's 10 11 10 21 2.1
Austin Burnevik Totino Grace 6 11 10 21 3.5
Quite the list. I wonder how many of these totals are accurate, coaches have been know to inflate some of these totals. Our team played one of the players on this list on Saturday who magically received two second assists overnight and Sunday morning had 4 points in the game when video evidence proves he only had two points.
That's what you get when you can't have the governing body (the MSHSL) official scoring each game. It comes down to the teams and coaches and unfortunately not all are trustworthy.

BodyShots
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Re: AA Scoring Leaders MidSeason Thru Feb 13

Post by BodyShots » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:37 am

east hockey wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:25 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:05 pm
east hockey wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:02 am
All were wins for East:

Central 9-1, 7-0
Denfeld 13-0, 0-2(!!!!)
Superior 5-2, 8-2
Cloquet 8-0, 8-1
Proctor 4-2
Hermantown 13-0
Marshall 21-0
Silver Bay 9-0
Two Harbors 11-1

Average score in LSC games was 8.9-0.8. The average score in their non-conference games (regular season) was 6.1-4.2. Weak? I certainly think so.

Lee
I randomly happened to be at that 2-0 Denfeld upset (long story). The atmosphere at the DECC that evening was both tense and intense. I don’t recall the name of the Hunters’ goalie, but he had the game of his life. If you played that game 1,000 times I don’t know if Denfeld could hold East scoreless again.
Andy Zapp was Denfeld's goalie.

Funny--I had been following the Hounds closely, but my brother hadn't. I took him to that game; after telling him what a scoring machine East had in Spehar, Locker & Co. (and they sure did that year), we settled into our seats with our popcorn. I said "Okay boys, fire at will" just before the puck drop.

Two hours later we left the DECC in stunned silence. :oops:

Lee
We've all been there before Lee. Insert foot in mouth....!

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