Eagles93 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:50 pm
WOM - my point was that we can't point you to a study or data that says hockey is safe during a pandemic. No study has been conducted. So instead, I ask for decisions to be made based on relative danger compared to other activities in society. And certainly relative to the dangers that a shut-down poses.
And to answer your question, I haven't taken a "side" on the pandemic. Of course it's a huge problem. It's incredibly tragic. It's not black and white, however. It's not either a) meh, it's just a flu or b) we all need to spend a year in the basement. If leadership had educated people better, then people would have taken it far more serious and taken more precautions so that we can live our lives somewhat "normal" during the pandemic. Instead kids are now paying the price by not being able to play the game they love due to a knee-jerk reaction.
jg2112 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:53 pm
The only burden the Governor really needs to meet is: does this restriction inure to the health, safety and welfare of Minnesotans? If so, he can do it.
Listen. We all like youth sports. We all want the kids to play. They will be back playing in 3 weeks. Stop arguing and enjoy your turkey tomorrow!!
You're right, the Governor needs very little reason to use emergency powers. That's what worries me about your next comment... I don't think they'll be playing in 3 weeks. I truly hope I'm wrong but if ALL sports were shut down with limited data behind the decision, what's going to change on December 19? We're not going to see a miraculous drop in cases and deaths in 3 weeks so I fear we will get another 4-week shut down that goes to mid-January. And after that...? I don't necessarily have a problem with the current pause, I have a problem losing the entire hockey season.
(And what about other sports? What about health clubs? Why the broad stroke?)
Eagles...another very good point regarding the fact that there haven't actually been any real studies conducted on the possible differences in transmissibility of various sports. However, the links to the articles I posted show that hockey is now seen as one of, if not the most challenging of the indoor sports to play, simply based on how many cases seem to be attributable to hockey specific activity through contact tracing efforts. And, your statement about how we as a society or, even parents, weigh the risk assessment equation when choosing whether or not our kids should continue to play is extremely important. Obviously, we as parents have to determine whether or not the risk is
"worth it" anytime our kids ask to play a sport or participate in certain activities. Especially in regards to contact sports.
Still, the challenge in this specific situation, with these specific circumstances is; even though we may determine the "risk" is "worth it" for our own kids to play, don't all of us as members of a collective society have an even larger obligation to consider the potential bigger picture health risks which others in our society who don't play sports -- the elderly/those having pre-existing conditions -- may incur if we (including the state or local governing body of the sport, and/or the state or local govt.) allow our kids to continue playing? Obviously, that's a much more challenging question with answers that may be very nuanced. However, those very difficult decisions are why we elect leaders to represent us. Whether that's at the local association level, the state governing body level, or even regarding state and local elected officials.
To the group...I've never met Tim Walz but, based on listening to him describe the process by which he has come to the decisions he's made during this crisis from a public health perspective, the very least I can say is he seems to be genuine in his rationale. And, I find him believable when he says he's simply following the advice of the public health experts available to him. Has he been perfect? Far from it. However, I think it's only fair to mention that not a single governor has been perfect. And, considering it's been over 100 years since the last pandemic, it's pretty damn unrealistic for any of us to expect anything close to perfection.
As he has also stated, he has his own passion for sports, has coached for many years, and one of his own kids is now unable to compete as well. Thus, I find it hard to believe he chose to pause all youth and high school sports on a whim. I'm sure the same can be said of having to limit or close restaurants and bars and health clubs. Do any of us really think he wants to do something he knows will negatively impact the lives of the owners and employees in that way?!? C'mon...what governor would WANT to do that? Especially when the "trickle down" effect is less state tax revenues when we need those the most. "Wanting" to do that flies in the face of basic logic.
Eagles...not saying you are saying this but, numerous others have, both yesterday and for the last few months, continued to point to the fact -- and it is a fact -- that kids and young adults rarely have significant illness or die from the virus as a significant discussion/debate point as to why we should keep playing (not just hockey but all sports) versus pause. Yet never acknowledging or addressing the fact -- and this is a fact as well -- that doctors have found/are finding numerous examples of kids and young adults who, post-Covid infection, are being diagnosed with varying levels of myocarditis and lung scarring. Both of which can have significant, long-term health impacts, especially on those who are athletes. Many of whom were either mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic. Although, for some of those diagnosed, it may not significantly affect them until they're in their 40s, 50s, or 60s. It's why the Big10's post-infection return to play policy takes 21 days. Every athlete is required to have a cardiac MRI to rule out possible myocarditis, as well as having lung imaging done.
Eagles...I am glad you haven't "chosen a side" and, the fact you acknowledge our general leadership has prevented us as a country from truly dealing with this crisis the way South Korea, Australia, and others have, leads me to believe you and I would have far more common ground on this than not. Still, you and I do disagree that the decision to pause was made with "limited data". Both Walz and his health director specifically pointed to their data regarding modes of community spread as the rationale for the decision to pause the activities/close the types of businesses they did. Unfortunately, I agree with both you and Lee in that this will be extended by at least two more weeks and possibly four. Both because hospitalizations lag infections by 2-3 weeks which means peak hospitalizations won't occur until right around December 19th, and...as Lee pointed out, we are likely to see another mini-surge off of Thanksgiving get-togethers. Which, won't show up as hospitalizations until Christmas or New Years.
The one specific area I will criticize Walz on is the pause on being able to practice or play outdoors as a team. The science clearly indicates that activities performed outdoors are far less likely to cause spread than those done indoors. Now, my guess is they were worried about warming shacks not being monitored properly from a masking/social distancing standpoint. Especially considering how small most of those are. Still, the fact that Walz has paused that activity as well, will probably cause most municipalities to choose not to even attempt to make ice at all until the pause is lifted. Eagles, good back and forth. Much respect to you and to all of you -- even those that think I'm a pain in the *** -- please have a safe and enjoyable Thanksgiving tomorrow.
Next, I usually reread my posts before I hit send and the last one literally took me 5 minutes to read. And no, I’m not a speed reader. So, if spending 5 minutes to read something about a controversial topic is asking so much, may I suggest you don’t really care that much in the first place.
Finally, last time I checked no one is making any of you read it. Talk about bunch of snowflakes.
. Also agree with jg about his point regarding the lawsuits. I’m way more concerned about our kids not being in school than I am about them missing 4-8 weeks of hockey during the actual season. Funny how the first thing they sue over is sports and not actual education. 