covid and MH

[Getitright]

I also want to add I disagree with the politics argument. What governor in any state wants to shut down their economy. Makes zero sense.

[7TIMECHAMPS]

A more accurate statement might be the needs of the elderly (who can vote) are outweighing the needs of the young (who in a lot of cases can’t). Something like a third of teens and a shocking 63% of 18-24 year olds are reportedly depressed? Both are several multiples of the normal rates. Another 24% reporting that they have started or increased substance abuse due to the pandemic? I can’t image what these rates will look like AFTER another brutal lockdown.This kind of stuff doesn’t just magically go away with a vaccine. People are and will develop lifetime issues from this. 30% of young people considering suicide. More young people will die of these effects than Covid, myocarditis, etc. This older generation owes the younger generation a HUGE debt of gratitude. Keep an eye on your kids people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... 0p19G=0232


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... 0p19G=0232

[spamtownusa]

Spamtownusa. Totally agree. Unfortunately we have about 1/3 of our population that choose not to abide by the face mask, wash hands protocol. That’s why it’s come to this. I am no scientist but can be pretty comfortable in saying if we had 95% abiding the rule, thus would not be happening. Don’t blame the politicians. Blame them this refusing to be inconvenienced.

I don’t disagree. More adherence would make a difference. Of course, if 95% of people didn’t smoke, ate healthy, didn’t drink alcohol and wore a seatbelt - we’d save millions of lives. Regarding the politicians... I’ll just say that the general public that you blame gave them nine months to prepare by slowing the spread. What did they do?

[Wise Old Man]

WOM - I agree with the statement that you’ve made once again... “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one...” The problem is, that’s not what is happening.

The needs of the vast majority of people are being ignored (e.g., the need to earn a living in order to support their family, the need for children to receive a quality education, the need for social interaction, the need for healthy physical activity, etc.). Less then 0.5% of of people who get COVID are hospitalized. The needs of the few are winning.

Put a mask on, wash your hands and keep your distance. You don’t have to shut the whole State down. Put a real plan together that protects those that truly need it (the elderly, people with underlying health conditions and those who are treating them) without disregarding the needs of the vast majority of others. The vaccine will be what gets us out of this. It sounds like it will be available before the end of the year. Let’s get it out to the right people ASAP.

Spam... you and I obviously have a different opinion about "the few" Seriously though, it's certainly another way to look at it. In response to the very valid points/concerns that you and 7Times raise; it's obviously about degrees, right? I acknowledge those issues you both raise are important and serious. Thus, the question becomes which is the lesser of the two evils -- significantly expanded infections, which lead to drastic increases in hospitalizations and deaths OR... increases in levels of depression/mental illness/suicide in young and old, as well as the economic impacts of tighter restrictions.

Now, I would argue that a majority of the stress related issues for adults in regards to the tighter restrictions are related to economic hardship that ensues. However, and as I've stated before, we could choose to do what other countries have done which is pay citizens to stay home. It's also an idea put forth by individuals such Mark Cuban, Andrew Yang, and other prominent people in our country. Heck, if our elected leaders (on both sides) would simply pass another legitimate economic stimulus package which they all have stated publicly they support in one manner or another, we would minimize the economic pain individuals are feeling.

I will state again that I actually have significant personal experience with mental illness. My mother suffered significantly from it the last 20 years of her life. To the point she had three different electric shock therapy treatments. And, my oldest child suffers from significant anxiety and psychological issues that require constant therapy and medication. It is literally a day to day thing. So, I'm extremely sensitive to those issues. However, if you go to the IHME website -- here's the link...

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-s ... &tab=trend

it will take you to their projection graph thru March 1st. If we ease the current mandates that various states have implemented over the last two weeks around Dec. 15th (when most are currently scheduled to end), we could see over 650,000 deaths...think about that for a minute... 650,000 deaths. Even if we were able to do a nationwide mask mandate and have the necessary 90 plus percent buy in we would need, there would still be over 400,000 deaths by March 1st. I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe we'll have anywhere close to those numbers of death or levels of significant increases in mental health issues. Still, those other issues are real and need to be considered.

[diablo26]

Interesting alternative view from the many articles linked on this site... I see both sides, but believe leadership should find a way to protect the most vulnerable (especially the elderly) without sacrificing the well-being of our kids academically, emotionally and physically.. I have been to nearly 100 games this spring, summer and fall watching nearly all involved following the rules, wearing masks etc... Big gov't lockdowns are not the answer for our small businesses, families and long-term future

Top pathologist Dr. Roger Hodkinson told government officials in Alberta during a zoom conference call that the current coronavirus crisis is “the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting public.”

“He received his general medical degrees from Cambridge University in the UK (M.A., M.B., B. Chir.) where he was a scholar at Corpus Christi College. Following a residency at the University of British Columbia he became a Royal College certified general pathologist (FRCPC) and also a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists (FCAP).”

https://randythym.com/2020/11/21/top-pa ... ng-public/

[Stang5280]

Top pathologist Dr. Roger Hodkinson told government officials in Alberta during a zoom conference call that the current coronavirus crisis is “the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting public.”

“He received his general medical degrees from Cambridge University in the UK (M.A., M.B., B. Chir.) where he was a scholar at Corpus Christi College. Following a residency at the University of British Columbia he became a Royal College certified general pathologist (FRCPC) and also a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists (FCAP).”

https://randythym.com/2020/11/21/top-pa ... ng-public/

Dr. Roger Hodkinson hasn’t practiced in an actual medical setting in over 20 years, and has no background in public health. He also happens to be the CEO of a laboratory that administers COVID tests, and another company that consults on medical malpractice lawsuits. So he stands to gain financially from further spread of the virus. No thanks, I will look elsewhere to actual public health experts for my advice regarding this pandemic.

[HockeyCrazy1970]

So now the many get to continue to pay and sacrifice for the few...
Just tack on another 1,2,3 TRILLION in debt to tide us all over while we tell each other to "be safe out there."
Such an easy answer for so many...
Let's add national debt to the mounting pile of negatives with shutdowns for the few .05%!

[arcticpurple]

Anyone know if Shattuck is also shut down during the pause?

[diablo26]

Yes, Shattuck is closed down

[USA218]

While any death is tragic, the fact is 80% of deaths are occurring in those that are older than the average life expectancy in MN. This is an average!!!!
For those that don't understand averages, to get an average life expectancy of 77 in MN,for evey person that dies at the age of 89, someone at the age of 65 will die.
Again, roughly 80% of all deaths with a covid positive test have outlived average life expectancy.
You can blame these deaths on covid, but many of them would have died in this time-frame with or without covid.
Kids should, and need to be in school, sports, etc

[Wise Old Man]

While any death is tragic, the fact is 80% of deaths are occurring in those that are older than the average life expectancy in MN. This is an average!!!!
For those that don't understand averages, to get an average life expectancy of 77 in MN,for evey person that dies at the age of 89, someone at the age of 65 will die.
Again, roughly 80% of all deaths with a covid positive test have outlived average life expectancy.
You can blame these deaths on covid, but many of them would have died in this time-frame with or without covid.
Kids should, and need to be in school, sports, etc

USA218....if you really believe that all that matters is actual deaths, please address/answer the following questions IN DETAIL...

Do you believe the data that indicates as many as 15-20% of all those who become infected — including those who were mildly symptomatic or even asymptomatic and at all ages — have developed post-infection issues such as myocarditis and lung scarring which are often life-long and life-altering conditions?

If you do believe that data, how do you justify allowing kids to continue playing with that type of risk?

If you don’t believe that data, explain why in detail, preferably citing legitimate science or medical material

Next, have you actually read the articles I linked to on the previous page that specifically discuss the fact that there have been significant spreading events involving hockey across the country that were directly attributed to playing games or practicing?

If not, please do so. If you have read them, please explain/justify your rationale for continuing an activity that experts in every state are saying is leading to obvious increases in overall community transmission. We aren’t the only state/area restricting/pausing these activities. Literally almost all of Canadian youth and Junior hockey is paused at the moment. Most of our hockey playing states have put in greater restrictions or, paused completely as well.

Another eastern DIII league canceled their season today. Northern Michigan just postponed their games for the n cut three weeks due to an outbreak. Tonight’s game between Mankato and Bemidji is postponed due to a positive test. St. Lawrence University postponed upcoming games today as well. And these are all DI schools that are testing their players a minimum of three times a week.

In relation to that, please explain why literally 95 plus percent of all scientists or medical experts with any actual/legitimate expertise involving this virus are recommending reducing/pausing activities that are causing obvious and unnecessary community
spread — indoor dining, bars, youth and adult sports, etc...
Seriously, are ALL of these medical people making these recommendations just completely full of it or, in on some whacked out conspiracy?!?

Again, if you’re going to post what you did, then man (or woman) up and respond as I’ve requested. Otherwise, your opinion means nothing.

[WestMetro]

Wise

See detailed Minnesota fatality analysis I did on Nov 19th on p 9 of this thread . This tends to support USA hypothesis that , although every death is a tragedy and only one man ever escaped it, many of our most aged beloved and treasured seniors that died from Covid may have died by this time in 2020 anyway.

Appreciate you feedback , insights , and research, as always

[USA218]

WOM,
IN DETAIL, for every single article you refer to, there are articles from medical experts that counter every detail!
Your not worth my time. In fact, I quit reading all your "government knows whats best for you" rants months ago. You, single handedly, are the reason I rarely visit this site any longer.

Back to CV and MH~
I am way more concerned about the impact on society, children & business owners, that government decisions will have than the impact covid may (or in most cases may not) have on society!

https://healthy-skeptic.com/2020/11/20/ ... -children/

"The level of sadness, worry and downright despair I am seeing EVERY day in my clinic is appalling and something I have never seen before in my 30 plus years of practice."

[WestMetro]

USA - agree there’s a lot of that out there at all ages,
seen and unseen. Sending a good thought your way to help you on the front lines

[Wise Old Man]

WOM,
IN DETAIL, for every single article you refer to, there are articles from medical experts that counter every detail!
Your not worth my time. In fact, I quit reading all your "government knows whats best for you" rants months ago. You, single handedly, are the reason I rarely visit this site any longer.

Back to CV and MH~
I am way more concerned about the impact on society, children & business owners, that government decisions will have than the impact covid may (or in most cases may not) have on society!

https://healthy-skeptic.com/2020/11/20/ ... -children/

"The level of sadness, worry and downright despair I am seeing EVERY day in my clinic is appalling and something I have never seen before in my 30 plus years of practice."

USA....First, I have acknowledged the increase in mental health issues for people of all ages. It’s a legitimate thing. Not sure you went back to read what I posted prior to today so, I’ll state again, I have a 20 plus year old child that has had significant anxiety and depression issues for a number of years. And, the stresses of the pandemic has only magnified those. Especially since they have an underlying health issue that increases their opportunity for more severe symptoms from Covid. So trust me, I get it.

To your other point regarding your assertion that for every article or study I find that supports my opinion/points, you can find as many that don’t....Ummm, here’s the problem, there actually ARE NOT articles out there from legitimately respected experts on the virus that can counter every point I’m making. If there were, it would be easy to spend 15 minutes searching for them and present them. How do I know this? Because that’s how long it literally took me to find the articles I did that support and, quite frankly, prove the points I’m making. Why is that you ask? Because the vast, vast majority of legitimate experts are stating what I am. That’s why I cite them.

If you were really as tired of my commentary on this as you say you are, one would think it would be worth the 15 minutes it should take to find and present all of these supporting articles/studies you say exist. Funny, instead of presenting those you again make the tired old points about...”it’s all old people dying”... and, “they probably would’ve died within a year anyway”...and, “I’m way more concerned about the impact on society, children, and business owners”.

Really??...you’re concerned about the impact on children eh? Then why are you seemingly afraid to address my point regarding the legitimate percentage of both kids and young adults who are being diagnosed post-infection with myocarditis, lung scarring, and now even legitimate psychological issues? Seriously, I’d love to hear what your response to those issues is.

I’m sorry but, if you’re truly worried about businesses and the economy, then you should care about actually containing the virus. Because without that, the economy will never fully recover. Oh, and based on your ‘government knows what’s best for you’ comment, I assume you probably would agree with “HockeyCrazy’s” response to my point about paying people to stay home where he said, “ So now the many get to continue to pay and sacrifice for the few...Just tack on another 1,2,3 TRILLION in debt to tide us all over while we tell each other to "be safe out there." Such an easy answer for so many...
Let's add national debt to the mounting pile of negatives with shutdowns for the few .05%! Actually...yes HockeyCrazy, we shouldn’t be afraid to add to the debt to help our fellow Americans who are truly suffering due to this pandemic. And again, a number of other western democracies have chosen to do this.

Even the current Fed Chair — who isn’t some bleeding heart liberal and, was appointed by the current president — is saying a bigger relief package is better than a smaller one. Meaning, he and the Fed believe in something far closer to a 2-3 trillion dollar deal vs one that’s less than a trillion. Remember, interest rates are darn near zero. If there was ever a time to go further into significant debt to take care of the 10 million plus that are unemployed or, can’t pay there rent/house payment, or afford food even though they’re working three jobs in a pandemic — have you seen the food lines recently? — this is the time to do so.

The fact that some of you are even trying to make a point about potential deficits if we pass another significant stimulus bill — especially after the $275 billion dollar shortfall to the U.S. Treasury in 2018 compared to 2017 following the 2017 tax cuts — is laughable. Do you guys who are so afraid of the government spending more money to help those people out who need it so desperately have no compassion for your fellow man citizens? It seems as though you don’t.

Back to my original point/challenge regarding asking you to provide actual supporting information to defend your positions. Despite what some of the “bots” on your Twitter or Facebook feeds are saying, people like Fauci, Osterholm, Birx, and all of the other experts that are stating the things I support are not political animals. They are life-long public servants that are only concerned with saving lives. The problem is, our society has reached a point where we cannot agree to what is actual fact and what isn’t. There isn’t anyone or any organization that enough of us trust as an unbiased and final arbiter of what are the actual facts. Until that changes, we will never get back to a place where our society can truly move forward.

Stay Safe and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and their families.

[Wise Old Man]

Here’s another post from a different forum about the difference in deaths between flu and COVID in South Dakota....

Originally posted by Swansong View Post

The CDC lumps flu and pneumonia together and those hover in the upper 100s/lower 200s. However, the state DPH itemizes:

https://doh.sd.gov/documents/disease...9FluReport.pdf

Yes. More people are dying daily from COVID in SD than yearly from influenza.

Let that sink in.

[Wise Old Man]

Here’s a follow on post to the last one from the same thread in the same forum. Just throwing out some more facts regarding where we are at in the upper Midwest/northern plains regarding Covid spread/deaths (since so many are only worried about deaths), along with some saying it’s “just a bad flu” like the doctor from Edmonton that was linked to earlier in this thread.

Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
So I pulled the numbers:

SD Flu Deaths:
18-19: 43
17-18: No data
16-17: 43
15-16: 9
14-15: 63
13-14: 12
12-13: 38
11-12: 17
10-11: 20
09-10: 24

For I&P mortality from the CDC:
2018: 245
17: 217
16: 195
15: 213
14: 181
05: 241

So they're burning through a year's worth of I&P every 8 days and a year of flu deaths every 1.x days. That is... terrifying.
And given the reaction within the state, it's just going to get worse.

In the same CBS report I saw, they interviewed two people who were just about to go into a bar w/o masks. One of them was an RN who worked with COVID patients. Seriously, she was just about to go into a bar w/o a mask, with a bunch of other non mask wearing patrons. After the interview, they didn't though.

Then another guy who criticized himself for not wearing a mask.

People KNOW what the right thing to do is, but they refuse to do it. And they will defend their rights to kill fellow SD's to their death.

[yesiplayedhockey]

When I was 8, my friends at school told me there was no such thing as Santa Claus

My parents told me they were just lying

The Facts were: I saw him at the mall and on Christmas day there were a bunch of presents lying around the fireplace

So there must be a Santa Claus right?

For the love of god can we PLEASE shut down this topic forever.

[Wise Old Man]

When I was 8, my friends at school told me there was no such thing as Santa Claus

My parents told me they were just lying

The Facts were: I saw him at the mall and on Christmas day there were a bunch of presents lying around the fireplace

So there must be a Santa Claus right?

For the love of god can we PLEASE shut down this topic forever.

Why is someone who actually provides data and links to articles or studies that supports their positions so offensive? Yes, I and others have passionate opinions about where we stand on this. However, as I’ve stated previously, I usually only respond to what someone else on the other side of the issue writes. Usually, because it is so off base in in actual fact and, in a forum such as this would be irresponsible not to to respond.

Which brings up another point...isn’t a healthy and respectful debate about a given topic one of the main reasons why a forum such as this exists? Seriously, the pandemic and our reactions to it obviously have a direct effect on how or whether we can play the sport this forum was created to discuss. Why are so many of you afraid of legitimate debate? It’s interesting to me that the people who’ve complained about this topic continuing to be discussed or have asked for threads to be closed, even without someone like “Hunters” participating in a disrespectful manner, all seem to be those on the opposite side of the issue from those of us arguing for more caution/saying the kids won’t be significantly affected from a hockey development standpoint by missing a few weeks of the season. Could that be because that deep down inside they know the facts aren’t on their side? Just a thought.

The pandemic is the biggest health issue that not only this nation but, the entire world has faced in a hundred years. It has rightly dominated our lives for close to a year now. As I have stated previously and, as eastsidepioneerguy said in a different thread yesterday, our society has had to sacrifice FAR more in previous situations. He mentioned WWII. And, that war obviously didn’t occur on our soil. Our “sacrifice” was forcing women into the workforce along with the hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Compared to what all of Europe and the Soviet Union experienced, our “sacrifice” was far less in both deaths and destruction of cities and infrastructure those countries endured.

I happen to have interest in WWII and, if those of you that think this current situation is too much to endure, especially for our kids, I challenge you to watch a couple of newer series about that war. Apocalypse WWII on CuriosityStream and, World War II in HD on Netflix. Both of them have never before seen/used footage, some of it very graphic post battle footage. I’m confident that if any of you that think not playing hockey is such a big sacrifice for our kids actually watch either of those from beginning to end, your perspective on “sacrifice” might change a little.

Maybe my 20 plus years of military service allows me to have a different perspective on what sacrifice is. But for me, the “sacrifice” of not being able to play or watch a sport for a month or maybe two to help save potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of lives, pales in comparison to being 16 or 17 years old and lying about your age so you can risk dying because you believe so strongly in the cause of freedom.

[edgeless2]

Write a book guy! You seem to have the time, passion and energy.

[HockeyStorm]

I will 2nd that motion, no more WOM novels.

[Wise Old Man]

I will 2nd that motion, no more WOM novels.

First, I didn’t realize that five paragraphs constituted a “novel”. Next, I usually reread my posts before I hit send and the last one literally took me 5 minutes to read. And no, I’m not a speed reader. So, if spending 5 minutes to read something about a controversial topic is asking so much, may I suggest you don’t really care that much in the first place. Finally, last time I checked no one is making any of you read it. Talk about bunch of snowflakes.

[7TIMECHAMPS]

WOM,
IN DETAIL, for every single article you refer to, there are articles from medical experts that counter every detail!
Your not worth my time. In fact, I quit reading all your "government knows whats best for you" rants months ago. You, single handedly, are the reason I rarely visit this site any longer.

Back to CV and MH~
I am way more concerned about the impact on society, children & business owners, that government decisions will have than the impact covid may (or in most cases may not) have on society!

https://healthy-skeptic.com/2020/11/20/ ... -children/

"The level of sadness, worry and downright despair I am seeing EVERY day in my clinic is appalling and something I have never seen before in my 30 plus years of practice."

USA....First, I have acknowledged the increase in mental health issues for people of all ages. It’s a legitimate thing. Not sure you went back to read what I posted prior to today so, I’ll state again, I have a 20 plus year old child that has had significant anxiety and depression issues for a number of years. And, the stresses of the pandemic has only magnified those. Especially since they have an underlying health issue that increases their opportunity for more severe symptoms from Covid. So trust me, I get it.

To your other point regarding your assertion that for every article or study I find that supports my opinion/points, you can find as many that don’t....Ummm, here’s the problem, there actually ARE NOT articles out there from legitimately respected experts on the virus that can counter every point I’m making. If there were, it would be easy to spend 15 minutes searching for them and present them. How do I know this? Because that’s how long it literally took me to find the articles I did that support and, quite frankly, prove the points I’m making. Why is that you ask? Because the vast, vast majority of legitimate experts are stating what I am. That’s why I cite them.

If you were really as tired of my commentary on this as you say you are, one would think it would be worth the 15 minutes it should take to find and present all of these supporting articles/studies you say exist. Funny, instead of presenting those you again make the tired old points about...”it’s all old people dying”... and, “they probably would’ve died within a year anyway”...and, “I’m way more concerned about the impact on society, children, and business owners”.

Really??...you’re concerned about the impact on children eh? Then why are you seemingly afraid to address my point regarding the legitimate percentage of both kids and young adults who are being diagnosed post-infection with myocarditis, lung scarring, and now even legitimate psychological issues? Seriously, I’d love to hear what your response to those issues is.

I’m sorry but, if you’re truly worried about businesses and the economy, then you should care about actually containing the virus. Because without that, the economy will never fully recover. Oh, and based on your ‘government knows what’s best for you’ comment, I assume you probably would agree with “HockeyCrazy’s” response to my point about paying people to stay home where he said, “ So now the many get to continue to pay and sacrifice for the few...Just tack on another 1,2,3 TRILLION in debt to tide us all over while we tell each other to "be safe out there." Such an easy answer for so many...
Let's add national debt to the mounting pile of negatives with shutdowns for the few .05%! Actually...yes HockeyCrazy, we shouldn’t be afraid to add to the debt to help our fellow Americans who are truly suffering due to this pandemic. And again, a number of other western democracies have chosen to do this.

Even the current Fed Chair — who isn’t some bleeding heart liberal and, was appointed by the current president — is saying a bigger relief package is better than a smaller one. Meaning, he and the Fed believe in something far closer to a 2-3 trillion dollar deal vs one that’s less than a trillion. Remember, interest rates are darn near zero. If there was ever a time to go further into significant debt to take care of the 10 million plus that are unemployed or, can’t pay there rent/house payment, or afford food even though they’re working three jobs in a pandemic — have you seen the food lines recently? — this is the time to do so.

The fact that some of you are even trying to make a point about potential deficits if we pass another significant stimulus bill — especially after the $275 billion dollar shortfall to the U.S. Treasury in 2018 compared to 2017 following the 2017 tax cuts — is laughable. Do you guys who are so afraid of the government spending more money to help those people out who need it so desperately have no compassion for your fellow man citizens? It seems as though you don’t.

Back to my original point/challenge regarding asking you to provide actual supporting information to defend your positions. Despite what some of the “bots” on your Twitter or Facebook feeds are saying, people like Fauci, Osterholm, Birx, and all of the other experts that are stating the things I support are not political animals. They are life-long public servants that are only concerned with saving lives. The problem is, our society has reached a point where we cannot agree to what is actual fact and what isn’t. There isn’t anyone or any organization that enough of us trust as an unbiased and final arbiter of what are the actual facts. Until that changes, we will never get back to a place where our society can truly move forward.

Stay Safe and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and their families.

WOM what is your position on opening schools? Do you feel that activities like hockey are far more risky than in person school? My feeling is that if in person school is deemed relatively safe that there should be a way to replicate that in kid's activities.

The director of the CDC (Dr. Robert Redfield) stated in the past week that school is one of the safest places for kids to be and that they should be open for in person instruction. Obviously there are other experts out there that feel differently that some decision makers are basing their policy on. As evidence of that many schools across the state and country are distance learning. My point is that the CDC and it's director are not some kind of fringe group that is not based in science and Dr Redfield is not a bot or what have you. You give the impression that science is some kind of united front and that everyone that disagrees with your viewpoint is some kind of uneducated moron. A large part of the country is going against Dr Redfield's guidance on in person instruction. Will you as readily chastise those school districts for closing in person instruction? Are they following the "science"? Point being that things are not always as clear cut as you make them out to be.

You always want things cited so here is a video of his statements. When the director of the CDC says that this is backed by data and science I trust that he is telling the truth. He likely has access to a lot more information, studies, resources etc than anyone on this forum.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4924557/ ... ng-schools

[InYourFace09]

I will 2nd that motion, no more WOM novels.

First, I didn’t realize that five paragraphs constituted a “novel”. Next, I usually reread my posts before I hit send and the last one literally took me 5 minutes to read. And no, I’m not a speed reader. So, if spending 5 minutes to read something about a controversial topic is asking so much, may I suggest you don’t really care that much in the first place. Finally, last time I checked no one is making any of you read it. Talk about bunch of snowflakes.

You must have only read one of your posts instead of all 3 in succession!

Keep bashing the same topics/points in each of your replies, it really makes people want to read each and every one!

[Wise Old Man]

I will 2nd that motion, no more WOM novels.

First, I didn’t realize that five paragraphs constituted a “novel”. Next, I usually reread my posts before I hit send and the last one literally took me 5 minutes to read. And no, I’m not a speed reader. So, if spending 5 minutes to read something about a controversial topic is asking so much, may I suggest you don’t really care that much in the first place. Finally, last time I checked no one is making any of you read it. Talk about bunch of snowflakes.

You must have only read one of your posts instead of all 3 in succession!

Keep bashing the same topics/points in each of your replies, it really makes people want to read each and every one!

Face...actually, yes, the 5 minutes I referenced was only in relation to the most recent post. Isn’t that how any of us should be judged from a ‘length of post’ standpoint? And yes, I am often repeating the same points on a regular basis. Gee, I wonder why... Could it be because many of the real facts regarding this virus, what the risks are and, how to minimize spread/what activities tend to increase spread, have been known for months now?

The problem is, none of those on the “it’s no big deal”/“just open it up”/“kids hardly ever have bad outcomes or die from this” side of the debate ever acknowledge or are willing/able to provide real facts from legitimate experts to support their positions/opinions. I’ve said a number of times now that, if some of those folks would even make a half-***ed effort to attempt to defend their positions with links to articles from actual legitimate experts on the virus that supports their positions, I’d probably back off on my pushing back against them.

And again, no one is forcing you to read my posts. Is ignoring/passing by them that difficult?