covid and MH

[jg2112]

I just received notification from our local school district (Ramsey County) that it is sending high schoolers to distance learning until at least December 4. Athletics are going to continue. K-8 remain in the hybrid model.

According to the email, 12 staffers in the school district have tested positive in the past two weeks, and 50 are in quarantine. This is causing a staffing issue for the schools (an issue that doesn't get raised often enough, I don't think, whether talking about schools or health services).

27 students have tested positive, and 205 are in quarantine.

A neighboring school district is 100% distance learning.

[7TIMECHAMPS]

UPDATE:

Spoke to a Source who is in the know with AD's and MSHSL....

Gov. Walz will be meeting with all MN Public School Superintendents on Friday Afternoon to discuss the weeks ahead...

Hearing the some in the higher up's of the MSHSL to be prepared for well I think you know.

Elliott: Have you heard anything from MN Hockey on this meeting and upcoming possible restrictions?

Hoping all bunch of nonsense.... However, my source said that it does not sound positive with new Covid MN Numbers coming out this afternoon that things are looking bleak and we could see major changes to everything in MN as soon as next week...

The news reported yesterday that at one point there were only 9 ICU beds available in the Twin Cities. That's always been the indicator we've been told.

So obviously you look backwards, because there's a 2-3 week lag time from infection to serious illness. At that time MN was logging about 1,500 infections a day. That infection level has almost taxed the local bed capacity.

Now look to today. This past week has logged over 3,000 infections a day. So the obvious concern is - if 1,500 infections a day almost placed ICU beds at full capacity, what's 3,000 a day going to do?

That's what the Governor's looking at. It's not political. It's certainly not nonsense. It's a matter of public health. 1,000+ are dying every day from this and it's going to get worse. Can we all please recognize this is a health issue?

Exactly. 98% of ICU beds in the metro are full, 92% state wide. Our local hospital has cancelled all elective surgeries and currently has 60+ nurses out. Our 7-12 grades will be going distance learning on the 12th through the Thanksgiving break and then reevaluating (K-6 remains in person, for now).

We shut down the first time to give hospitals time to prepare. Since then have we actually done anything to increase our ICU capacity? Maybe we have but apparently not enough if we are running out. If Walz shuts everything down again that would be the question for him. What have you been doing the past 7ish months?

[InThePipes]

The news reported yesterday that at one point there were only 9 ICU beds available in the Twin Cities. That's always been the indicator we've been told.

So obviously you look backwards, because there's a 2-3 week lag time from infection to serious illness. At that time MN was logging about 1,500 infections a day. That infection level has almost taxed the local bed capacity.

Now look to today. This past week has logged over 3,000 infections a day. So the obvious concern is - if 1,500 infections a day almost placed ICU beds at full capacity, what's 3,000 a day going to do?

That's what the Governor's looking at. It's not political. It's certainly not nonsense. It's a matter of public health. 1,000+ are dying every day from this and it's going to get worse. Can we all please recognize this is a health issue?

Exactly. 98% of ICU beds in the metro are full, 92% state wide. Our local hospital has cancelled all elective surgeries and currently has 60+ nurses out. Our 7-12 grades will be going distance learning on the 12th through the Thanksgiving break and then reevaluating (K-6 remains in person, for now).

We shut down the first time to give hospitals time to prepare. Since then have we actually done anything to increase our ICU capacity? Maybe we have but apparently not enough if we are running out. If Walz shuts everything down again that would be the question for him. What have you been doing the past 7ish months?

It's important for everyone to understand the context of these numbers, look at the various capacities and how many of the current total use is for Covid. Judge for yourself at the MDH website below:

https://www.mn.gov/covid19/data/respons ... pacity.jsp

[7TIMECHAMPS]

Exactly. 98% of ICU beds in the metro are full, 92% state wide. Our local hospital has cancelled all elective surgeries and currently has 60+ nurses out. Our 7-12 grades will be going distance learning on the 12th through the Thanksgiving break and then reevaluating (K-6 remains in person, for now).

We shut down the first time to give hospitals time to prepare. Since then have we actually done anything to increase our ICU capacity? Maybe we have but apparently not enough if we are running out. If Walz shuts everything down again that would be the question for him. What have you been doing the past 7ish months?

It's important for everyone to understand the context of these numbers, look at the various capacities and how many of the current total use is for Covid. Judge for yourself at the MDH website below:

https://www.mn.gov/covid19/data/respons ... pacity.jsp

So for anybody that doesn't click on the link provided above we have approx 200 people in ICU with COVID (approx 800 in ICU without COVID). So around 1000 of 1400 beds being used. There can be another approx 400 beds ready within 72 hours. So conceivably we could quadruple the amount of COVID ICU patients and have enough beds.

[BodyShots]

We shut down the first time to give hospitals time to prepare. Since then have we actually done anything to increase our ICU capacity? Maybe we have but apparently not enough if we are running out. If Walz shuts everything down again that would be the question for him. What have you been doing the past 7ish months?

It's important for everyone to understand the context of these numbers, look at the various capacities and how many of the current total use is for Covid. Judge for yourself at the MDH website below:

https://www.mn.gov/covid19/data/respons ... pacity.jsp

So for anybody that doesn't click on the link provided above we have approx 200 people in ICU with COVID (approx 800 in ICU without COVID). So around 1000 of 1400 beds being used. There can be another approx 400 beds ready within 72 hours. So conceivably we could quadruple the amount of COVID ICU patients and have enough beds.

I don't care if you get 1 million beds.

You need "healthy" doctors and nurses to care for all of these people!

[7TIMECHAMPS]

It's important for everyone to understand the context of these numbers, look at the various capacities and how many of the current total use is for Covid. Judge for yourself at the MDH website below:

https://www.mn.gov/covid19/data/respons ... pacity.jsp

So for anybody that doesn't click on the link provided above we have approx 200 people in ICU with COVID (approx 800 in ICU without COVID). So around 1000 of 1400 beds being used. There can be another approx 400 beds ready within 72 hours. So conceivably we could quadruple the amount of COVID ICU patients and have enough beds.

I don't care if you get 1 million beds.

You need "healthy" doctors and nurses to care for all of these people!

Maybe they can hire back some of the hundreds that were laid off.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kare11 ... 66173eacac

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sctime ... 5242702002

[Wise Old Man]

Although it's fair to point out the number of ICU beds occupied by Covid as that provides proper context to that specific issue, and yes, the initial lockdowns were done in part to keep hospital systems from being overwhelmed, as well as build up PPE and ICU beds, the main reason you "lock down" is to reduce community spread. Why? Because if we reduce community spread we obviously reduce overall infections, which in turn reduces hospitalizations, which in turn reduces ICU occupancy, which then reduces deaths.

So...in effect, "stay at home" orders are about reducing deaths. However, it's FAR more about reducing unnecessary community spread because that is what ultimately prevents the most deaths. Why is this so challenging for some of you to understand or acknowledge?

[Schotzy]

Why is this so challenging for some of you to understand or acknowledge?

You had me until this sentence. Simply not necessary.

[7TIMECHAMPS]

Although it's fair to point out the number of ICU beds occupied by Covid as that provides proper context to that specific issue, and yes, the initial lockdowns were done in part to keep hospital systems from being overwhelmed, as well as build up PPE and ICU beds, the main reason you "lock down" is to reduce community spread. Why? Because if we reduce community spread we obviously reduce overall infections, which in turn reduces hospitalizations, which in turn reduces ICU occupancy, which then reduces deaths.

So...in effect, "stay at home" orders are about reducing deaths. However, it's FAR more about reducing unnecessary community spread because that is what ultimately prevents the most deaths. Why is this so challenging for some of you to understand or acknowledge?

Maybe the reason it is "so hard for us to understand or acknowledge" is that what we were told is that the reason we are locking down is to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. Not shut things down for years to reduce transmission. (Fauci is on the record now saying that maybe we can get back to normal in 2022)

In fact here is a quote from you directly contradicting your statement above. What is the "main reason" ? (kind of funny because you use the same terms)

"As I'm quite confident you've heard numerous times, the main reason for continuing the shelter-in-place orders is to prevent the health care system from being overwhelmed."


So maybe the reason people get frustrated is the constant changing of reasons/moving targets with this.

The people that oppose lockdowns, shut downs, etc understand that the virus will spread. What we are saying is that we cannot withstand this type of societal damage. The longer this goes on the less feasible the lock down strategy is. We can't forfeit years of education (don't get me started on distance learning, it's a joke), social development, mental health etc. We understand the health risks, maybe it is you and others that don't understand the societal risks.

I don't want to get into some marathon argument again. We both know where the other stands so it really isn't any use. I respect your opinion but happen to disagree with it. So I will check out here. Hope we can find a way to play this winter.

[jg2112]

The stay at home order ended in May in Minnesota. Why is that being brought up?

[7TIMECHAMPS]

The stay at home order ended in May in Minnesota. Why is that being brought up?

It was suggested that the governor will or needs to enact new restrictions, shut downs, etc because we are running out of ICU beds. When it was pointed out that we aren't really running out of beds WOM suggested that it was actually to reduce deaths/transmissions. I then pointed out that when this concept was originally pitched to the public that was in fact the reason. It appears that even on this forum there is disagreement as to what the objective is. So are we giving the hospitals time or is this a long term strategy (again Fauci is now saying maybe 2022)? The changing targets/reasoning gets difficult to follow. People already have COVID fatigue. Trying to enact restrictions for a year, 2 years, whatever it is will not be an effective strategy.

[jg2112]

The stay at home order ended in May in Minnesota. Why is that being brought up?

It was suggested that the governor will or needs to enact new restrictions, shut downs, etc because we are running out of ICU beds. When it was pointed out that we aren't really running out of beds WOM suggested that it was actually to reduce deaths/transmissions. I then pointed out that when this concept was originally pitched to the public that was in fact the reason. It appears that even on this forum there is disagreement as to what the objective is. So are we giving the hospitals time or is this a long term strategy (again Fauci is now saying maybe 2022)? The changing targets/reasoning gets difficult to follow. People already have COVID fatigue. Trying to enact restrictions for a year, 2 years, whatever it is will not be an effective strategy.

People had COVID fatigue in March, that's why we only tried to truly stop the spread for 15 days.

I have no idea how anything will stop community spread now.

Regardless, I'm interested to hear what comes out of the Governor's supposed meeting with superintendents today.

[InThePipes]

The stay at home order ended in May in Minnesota. Why is that being brought up?

It was suggested that the governor will or needs to enact new restrictions, shut downs, etc because we are running out of ICU beds. When it was pointed out that we aren't really running out of beds WOM suggested that it was actually to reduce deaths/transmissions. I then pointed out that when this concept was originally pitched to the public that was in fact the reason. It appears that even on this forum there is disagreement as to what the objective is. So are we giving the hospitals time or is this a long term strategy (again Fauci is now saying maybe 2022)? The changing targets/reasoning gets difficult to follow. People already have COVID fatigue. Trying to enact restrictions for a year, 2 years, whatever it is will not be an effective strategy.

The rumor from sources inside the Governor's office for the past couple of weeks is that the new restrictions would be announced on the Friday following the election, that's probably also why this is being brought to the surface again.

[east hockey]

The stay at home order ended in May in Minnesota. Why is that being brought up?

It was suggested that the governor will or needs to enact new restrictions, shut downs, etc because we are running out of ICU beds. When it was pointed out that we aren't really running out of beds WOM suggested that it was actually to reduce deaths/transmissions. I then pointed out that when this concept was originally pitched to the public that was in fact the reason. It appears that even on this forum there is disagreement as to what the objective is. So are we giving the hospitals time or is this a long term strategy (again Fauci is now saying maybe 2022)? The changing targets/reasoning gets difficult to follow. People already have COVID fatigue. Trying to enact restrictions for a year, 2 years, whatever it is will not be an effective strategy.

So much for "I will check out here", huh? You can't resist.

Lee

[Wise Old Man]

Why is this so challenging for some of you to understand or acknowledge?

You had me until this sentence. Simply not necessary.

Schotzy...my apologies if you find that sentence "unnecessary". The reason I state it is because almost no one on here who has strongly opposed "lock downs/stay at home" orders or, argues that the "cure can't be worse than the disease", ever acknowledges that limiting community spread is the ultimate goal of restrictions as that is what drives everything else.

I understand I'm not likely to change anyone's mind here. But the decision-making of the governor's administration is on limiting unnecessary loss of life and, that is driven by the MDH's recommendations on how best to do that based on the science. Yes, there are significant and real negatives to "closing things down" for any significant amount of time. Trust me, I have a child that has certainly been negatively affected by the overall stresses of the pandemic from an anxiety and depression standpoint. Believe me, I "get it" as well as anyone.

The thing is, although our state did a really good job the first 6 weeks of stay at home, we didn't have enough of the remainder of the country do so. In fact, as much as half of the country never did truly "lock down" to the degree our state did. Thus, the virus was never truly contained from a scientific perspective at a level that would ever allow the country as a whole to stay ahead of future spread from a contact tracing standpoint. Which, is why we are now where we are at. We had just under 4,000 new cases statewide yesterday and, over 120,000 nation-wide.

7Times...I genuinely respect your opinion as well. And yes, I did say that the original stay at home orders were to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed. I'm not "changing" the narrative, or the "arguments", or "moving the targets". I'm adding more detailed context as to HOW the stay at home orders allow us to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Significantly limiting community spread, is the gas for the bus that prevents hospitalizations. Yes, Fauci is now saying he doesn't expect us to get back to a "true" normal until sometime in 2022. However, I think you're mistaken if you think his definition of that is having significant economy limiting restrictions through that time frame. I will be genuinely surprised if our kids aren't back in the schools next fall. Now, the situation in Denmark where the virus got into the mink population and has possibly mutated in a way that may make our current vaccine efforts much less effective, is something to watch very closely and, could slow the degree of control we are expecting from a vaccine(s)

Still, both Fauci and Olsterholm are now saying that the only way to truly get the virus under control without a widely distributable vaccine is via a significant, nation wide lock down. We all know that's not likely going to happen. Some individual states might go down that road, but the whole country certainly won't. All of us want youth/high school sports to be able to play. Most importantly for the physical and emotional health of our kids, but also because we love to watch them play. Here's what I don't understand. The best way to do that is by following the science -- wearing masks and socially distancing. Not just at the rink, or field, or gym, but literally everywhere else as well. Yet, from my personal observations, there are at least 1/3 to 1/2 of parents not doing those things away from the actual sites/facilities where their kids actually play. So, if that many parents are unwilling to do the absolute minimum to help allow their kids to play, we don't really have a right to complain if the ability to engage in those activities is temporarily suspended. Unfortunately, it appears we are headed in that direction again.

[Wise Old Man]

To add...Minnesota total cases "yesterday/today" is 5,454... State test positivity rate now at 11.9%. Needs to be below 5% to have effective "control". We are not in a good place right now. This sucks...

[Schotzy]

To add...Minnesota total cases "yesterday/today" is 5,454... State test positivity rate now at 11.9%. Needs to be below 5% to have effective "control". We are not in a good place right now. This sucks...

Indeed. We have to do better.

[Schotzy]

Schotzy...my apologies if you find that sentence "unnecessary". The reason I state it is because almost no one on here who has strongly opposed "lock downs/stay at home" orders or, argues that the "cure can't be worse than the disease", ever acknowledges that limiting community spread is the ultimate goal of restrictions as that is what drives everything else.

I understand where you are coming from, I just don't think we collectively move towards agreement by pointing out how people don't agree with your point of view. Just state your point and move on. I am not even say I don't agree with what you are saying. The finger pointing is what rubs me wrong.

[goldy313]

Lockdowns only delayed the spread. Mask mandates looked great until they didn’t. Iowa does not have one, Minnesota does but our rates are similar now. We laughed at Georgia and Louisiana but now they are in much better shape than we are. Europe is suffering mightily and they had strict lockdowns and mask mandates. Unfortunately the pain we are suffering will lead to herd immunity. When the best we can come up with are masks, wash your hands, and social distance we will lose. It is a virus and humans are genetically social. Being isolated leads to inbreeding, we evolved to be social. We beat Small Pox and Polio with a vaccine, we have not beat influenza.

New research shows Asians may have a natural immunity to this virus as that society may have been exposed to a similar virus hundreds of years ago. Much like Small Pox, the Europeans had some immunity but the Native Americans had none, one culture was decimated by Small Pox, one survived it and thrived.

Just like battlefield injuries, learning how to treat the person will be how we do better, we will not eradicate it in the near future.

[TTpuckster]

Lockdowns only delayed the spread. Mask mandates looked great until they didn’t. Iowa does not have one, Minnesota does but our rates are similar now. We laughed at Georgia and Louisiana but now they are in much better shape than we are. Europe is suffering mightily and they had strict lockdowns and mask mandates. Unfortunately the pain we are suffering will lead to herd immunity. When the best we can come up with are masks, wash your hands, and social distance we will lose. It is a virus and humans are genetically social. Being isolated leads to inbreeding, we evolved to be social. We beat Small Pox and Polio with a vaccine, we have not beat influenza.

New research shows Asians may have a natural immunity to this virus as that society may have been exposed to a similar virus hundreds of years ago. Much like Small Pox, the Europeans had some immunity but the Native Americans had none, one culture was decimated by Small Pox, one survived it and thrived.

Just like battlefield injuries, learning how to treat the person will be how we do better, we will not eradicate it in the near future.

Hi Goldy; not arguing but came across this interesting read this morning: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... id=U148DHP

[yesiplayedhockey]

Goldy you are 1000% correct

We all become products of the sources we read and watch (CNN, Fox, CNBC...Star Tribune, Trumps twitter account and yes even Facebook)...For every article written by a medical expert that we should shut down the world, there's another article written by a expert saying just the opposite.

We "justify" our decisions /philosophies based on this information we absorb...We repeat would we've learned as if we are all of a sudden "the experts"...The other person is wrong but they watch Fox and I watch CNN.

I do firmly believe this

Our bodies are built to take on a lot

Small cuts heal, broken bones will mend...The body fights off disgusting germs found on the money we carry around and have you ever checked how dirty your cell phone is... Even the 5 second rule doesn't stand a chance again our immune system. Remember as young parents we were told to bring your kids into that dirty day care center and they will not get sick or ear aches near as often?

Have you ever noticed that doctors rarely get sick? Why is that..Yes its because they wear a mask, yes its because they wash their hands 10 times a day.... but they are still around "sick people" all the time. Their body is "use" to fighting off all types of viruses.

In my opinion..Isolating our kids is not solving the problem...it's prolonging it...Am I right...maybe..am I wrong...Man I hope not

[Wise Old Man]

Goldy you are 1000% correct

We all become products of the sources we read and watch (CNN, Fox, CNBC...Star Tribune, Trumps twitter account and yes even Facebook)...For every article written by a medical expert that we should shut down the world, there's another article written by a expert saying just the opposite.

We "justify" our decisions /philosophies based on this information we absorb...We repeat would we've learned as if we are all of a sudden "the experts"...The other person is wrong but they watch Fox and I watch CNN.

I do firmly believe this

Our bodies are built to take on a lot

Small cuts heal, broken bones will mend...The body fights off disgusting germs found on the money we carry around and have you ever checked how dirty your cell phone is... Even the 5 second rule doesn't stand a chance again our immune system. Remember as young parents we were told to bring your kids into that dirty day care center and they will not get sick or ear aches near as often?

Have you ever noticed that doctors rarely get sick? Why is that..Yes its because they wear a mask, yes its because they wash their hands 10 times a day.... but they are still around "sick people" all the time. Their body is "use" to fighting off all types of viruses.

In my opinion..Isolating our kids is not solving the problem...it's prolonging it...Am I right...maybe..am I wrong...Man I hope not

Sorry “Iplayed” but, you’re dead wrong about being able to find/read articles from an opposing medical expert about the effectiveness of shutting down vs not or, as the article “puckster” just linked, the effectiveness of masks vs not. You’re simply incorrect. It’s not “both sides”.

Goldy...love you bud but, you’re really going to go Scott Atlas on the bit?!? Herd immunity... Literally almost every infectious disease expert is saying that will lead to over a million deaths in this country. C’mon man, you’re better than that. And, mask mandates work if you get 85-90% of buy in. We’re lucky if we’ve reached 70%. We delayed this as much as we did because of how long and how effective our original lockdown was. But since then, we’ve slowly been sliding in the wrong direction.

I know of at least 6 different youth teams that have lost games due to players having contracted Covid. There’s a current DI college team in our state with 15 plus players positive right now. I also know of three current NHL players who tested positive recently. Here’s an article I had sent to me from a friend in Anchorage who’s involved in all levels of hockey in that state. Very interesting read...

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/10 ... ournament/

Just spoke with a friend who is involved in local disaster preparedness and he said the statewide health and medical community is strongly advocating for Walz to dial it back. Said hospitals are almost full and, combined with the number of staff now quarantined statewide, things are getting really challenging. Their recommendations are no bars, no in person restaurant dining, and pausing youth sports and activities for at least a month and maybe thru to Jan. 1. He wasn’t sure if or when Walz would react but, felt it could easily be this week. Stay safe everyone.

[jg2112]

Add these facts onto the pile.

The report on 11/12 will have an average of 1,956 infections per day, or, an increase of about 28% from the 11/5 report. The report on 11/19 will be based on the time frame from 10/26 to 11/8. This timeframe has an average of 3,362 cases per day.

We have bad news coming in the next week or two. Why? Because we already have some really bad data, listed above, and it's only getting worse. Schools are switching to distance based on data that is about 40% of what we're going to see on 11/19.

You cannot focus on the kids here. They will be fine if you send them home for 2-3 weeks. Focus on who the kids infect - health care workers, police, teachers, long-term facilities workers, employees at grocery stores, grandparents, etc. That is the issue.

[yesiplayedhockey]

Wise old man

What am a WRONG about... I didn't put out any stats....or some link posted by a website with an agenda...I merely stated my beliefs.

it's a called America...Doesnt mean I will riot...or protest...or cry in my milk

My beliefs are my beliefs.

I also BELIEVE

The number of flu cases this year will be at historic lows....

Some drug company will announce something soon (now that the election is over)

Yes we all know Walz wants to close things down.. Many of us disagree with that decision....But I'm still allowed to have an opinion....At least I can until someone tells me it's now against the law

Everyone on this website knows your position on Covid...Name drop all you want, produce all the facts you find on the websites you read daily... you're not going to change my beliefs.. Now please, I'm asking you nicely, step aside from this topic and let everyone else comment..No one wants to be on this sight if someone IMMEDIATELY attacks the first person who doesn't see things their way. The forum is for "discussion" ...not a place to prove every single time that someone is right and someone is wrong.. Finally...Don't attack someone's beliefs.... That's what's dividing this country even further apart. it's okay to argue facts but that's not what I was stating earlier

[blueblood]