MSHSL Oct 1st Meeting (Boys Hockey Season Fate)

[Hunters1993]

Duluth is already all online outside of elementary. I love how the local news blew this up. In the post it states they MAY take actions if they rates dont change. Here is the actual post from the East activities facebook page

And that is what school districts are supposed to be doing. Watching trends, if it keeps increasing then take action. Proud of school districts shutting down sports when rates are becoming a problem. Way to go Duluth a school Districts!

[HockeyStorm]

Its too bad that some of these school districts are overreacting based on cases. Cases do not equal crisis, the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus, which is highly inflating case numbers. As its been stated before hockey has been being played on many levels all over from youth to adult since July without issue. While respecting the severity of this illness is required, basing it solely on cases is irrational and unfair to the kids for something that is only a threat to the elderly for all intents and purposes. Play the games without fans and stream online if you must.

[Hunters1993]

The ultimate goal of school systems and the MSHSL is to keep the kids safe. Not to please the Covid denialers. Sorry.

If we all just stopped all optional risky behavior( look at MDH list) for a time this Pandemic would die out. But.............,,, many never will comply!

Actually the numbers are underestimated. I won’t bother trying to explaining it to you. Won’t make any difference.

[BodyShots]

Wise Old Man.....

You now have swung and missed on Big Ten Hockey and MN Hockey bridge season. At least admit you are guessing! You have no inside knowledge and are posting as if you do. There is a simple term....IMHO, it means “in my humble oponion”. Maybe learn you are not the judge and jury of hockey in Minnesota. You have an opinion, it seems those in power disagree with you.

Guess that depends on how you define "swung and missed". I'm not sure what you're referencing in regards to the Big 10. All I did was point out that their medical advisory board had what they deemed solid science based reasoning as to why they initially decided not to play. I never claimed they wouldn't ever play.

As for the Bridge League...my contention was that if it was run through the actual youth associations, it would never fly. Along with the fact that, IF it was run through the boosters/parents, it would be extremely challenging to get all of the required USA/MH requirements completed UNLESS those individuals were either still coaching/administering at the youth level, or had done so recently. So Goldy, is this being run through the associations?...Ummmmm, nope it isn't. Meaning, I wasn't necessarily wrong, was I? And, you can believe me or not but, at least a few of MH's senior leadership is not a fan of this idea, along with being quite skeptical of how it will work out.

If I were you, I'd be more concerned with your decision to try and defend some idiot walking into an arena with a deer rifle slung over his shoulder. But hey, that's just me...

[Wise Old Man]

Its too bad that some of these school districts are overreacting based on cases. Cases do not equal crisis, the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus, which is highly inflating case numbers. As its been stated before hockey has been being played on many levels all over from youth to adult since July without issue. While respecting the severity of this illness is required, basing it solely on cases is irrational and unfair to the kids for something that is only a threat to the elderly for all intents and purposes. Play the games without fans and stream online if you must.

Hey "Storm"...if you think things have been so safe or, that there's been very little spread associated with hockey this summer and has been played "without issue", please go over to my posts on the Covid and MH thread and read the links I provide. The governor of Vermont (I'll let you find out his affiliation) just shut all levels of hockey down in the entire state for at least two weeks due to all of the spreading events directly associated with hockey events in the last month or so.

Also, two teams in the QMJHL are now shut down due to spread. Not to mention all of minor hockey in the Toronto area. And that's not saying that cases equals crisis. However, 40% are asymptomatic and, I guarantee you there's been plenty of transmission that's occurred that you couldn't know unless we were testing every kid, coach, and referee every week. Just like the NCAA and pro sports are doing. It's not as "safe" as you seem to be indicating. Two of the largest eastern Div. III sports conferences -- the SUNYAC and NESCAC have now cancelled all winter sports. Pretty sure they aren't doing that because they're being told by the various health experts that they could play "without issue"...

[yesiplayedhockey]

This may be to late but I think every high school hockey team should strongly consider doing the Bridge Season

It would send a clear and concise message to MSHSL that if you continue to sit on your hands, the hockey community will respond

[Getitright]

Yep. And we all know hockey is the end all.

[Getitright]

Like I said a few posts ago, I was “that guy” and now I laugh at myself about it. Lives will go on with or without this years season.

[Wise Old Man]

Like I said a few posts ago, I was “that guy” and now I laugh at myself about it. Lives will go on with or without this years season.

And I say that as the parent of two players who, at this point anyway, truly seem to enjoy the game.

[InThePipes]

https://www.startribune.com/new-cross-c ... 572828162/

[MeFirst]

Its too bad that some of these school districts are overreacting based on cases. Cases do not equal crisis, the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus, which is highly inflating case numbers. As its been stated before hockey has been being played on many levels all over from youth to adult since July without issue. While respecting the severity of this illness is required, basing it solely on cases is irrational and unfair to the kids for something that is only a threat to the elderly for all intents and purposes. Play the games without fans and stream online if you must.

Do you have a source for this statement - "...the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus..." My understanding is that it's rare for the PCR test to remain positive after recovery rather than "highly inflating case number."

[InThePipes]

Its too bad that some of these school districts are overreacting based on cases. Cases do not equal crisis, the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus, which is highly inflating case numbers. As its been stated before hockey has been being played on many levels all over from youth to adult since July without issue. While respecting the severity of this illness is required, basing it solely on cases is irrational and unfair to the kids for something that is only a threat to the elderly for all intents and purposes. Play the games without fans and stream online if you must.

Do you have a source for this statement - "...the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus..." My understanding is that it's rare for the PCR test to remain positive after recovery rather than "highly inflating case number."

This is probably the most common main stream article on the topic...not looking to argue about it, simply passing it on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/heal ... sting.html

[USA218]

Its too bad that some of these school districts are overreacting based on cases. Cases do not equal crisis, the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus, which is highly inflating case numbers. As its been stated before hockey has been being played on many levels all over from youth to adult since July without issue. While respecting the severity of this illness is required, basing it solely on cases is irrational and unfair to the kids for something that is only a threat to the elderly for all intents and purposes. Play the games without fans and stream online if you must.

Do you have a source for this statement - "...the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus..." My understanding is that it's rare for the PCR test to remain positive after recovery rather than "highly inflating case number."

This is probably the most common main stream article on the topic...not looking to argue about it, simply passing it on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/heal ... sting.html

This looks article tells the story!! PCR rates of 42 (what i understand the standard to be in MN) is useless! You can find nearly anything that has ever existed on the planet within a fragment of a persons RNA with a 42 PCR. It politicizes everything!

Why? Because when a vaccine is developed, they will come out with a standard PCR rate for all tests, say 30, and this will show how "effective" the vaccine is against CV-19.

They need to develop a rationale standard (which would be less than a 35 PCR) NOW. You would see the caseademic drastically decrease and 95+% of the people, who are living in fear right now could move on from this. This would also allow those that are "potentially" contagious to be contained in an appropriate manner. In addition, you would see the rates diminish to a small percentage of what currently exists. Life, for the majority of the population, would go on as it did and should!
Let's Play Hockey!!!

[MeFirst]

Thanks for the links. I will take a look.

[Hunters1993]

Do you have a source for this statement - "...the most common test (PCR) is very flawed in that it shows if an individual has ever had the virus in their system, and not if they currently have the virus..." My understanding is that it's rare for the PCR test to remain positive after recovery rather than "highly inflating case number."

This is probably the most common main stream article on the topic...not looking to argue about it, simply passing it on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/heal ... sting.html

This looks article tells the story!! PCR rates of 42 (what i understand the standard to be in MN) is useless! You can find nearly anything that has ever existed on the planet within a fragment of a persons RNA with a 42 PCR. It politicizes everything!

Why? Because when a vaccine is developed, they will come out with a standard PCR rate for all tests, say 30, and this will show how "effective" the vaccine is against CV-19.

They need to develop a rationale standard (which would be less than a 35 PCR) NOW. You would see the caseademic drastically decrease and 95+% of the people, who are living in fear right now could move on from this. This would also allow those that are "potentially" contagious to be contained in an appropriate manner. In addition, you would see the rates diminish to a small percentage of what currently exists. Life, for the majority of the population, would go on as it did and should!
Let's Play Hockey!!!

I love it when people say older folks dying from this is not important enough to change sports. Some lives are the ones we should base our decisions on! High school sports kids? 20 somethings with kids?

[goldy313]

Yet 5 weeks into high school football there has not been outbreak associated to football games.

Go to your bunker and stay there until you die. COVID-19 is endemic like Influenza, not just a pandemic. Much harsher but it will not go away like Smallpox with a vaccine.

[6AAGuy]

This is probably the most common main stream article on the topic...not looking to argue about it, simply passing it on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/heal ... sting.html

This looks article tells the story!! PCR rates of 42 (what i understand the standard to be in MN) is useless! You can find nearly anything that has ever existed on the planet within a fragment of a persons RNA with a 42 PCR. It politicizes everything!

Why? Because when a vaccine is developed, they will come out with a standard PCR rate for all tests, say 30, and this will show how "effective" the vaccine is against CV-19.

They need to develop a rationale standard (which would be less than a 35 PCR) NOW. You would see the caseademic drastically decrease and 95+% of the people, who are living in fear right now could move on from this. This would also allow those that are "potentially" contagious to be contained in an appropriate manner. In addition, you would see the rates diminish to a small percentage of what currently exists. Life, for the majority of the population, would go on as it did and should!
Let's Play Hockey!!!

I love it when people say older folks dying from this is not important enough to change sports. Some lives are the ones we should base our decisions on! High school sports kids? 20 somethings with kids?

Hunter, we can care about older people dying and still work to live our lives. Are you an advocate for eliminating automobiles too? 50,000 people a year die from car accidents that wouldn't happen if we outlawed autos! Don't those lives matter? Where's your BAN CARS NOW movement? Is that on a different sports-oriented forum?

Kids need interaction. They need school, they need activity. There is a whole group of doctors suggesting the kids under 25 should be out, active, and socializing. You are incredibly judgmental, and often condescending to an anyone who disagrees with you.

[InThePipes]

https://www.startribune.com/new-cross-c ... 572828162/

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-s ... 572840052/

[jg2112]

https://www.startribune.com/new-cross-c ... 572828162/

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-s ... 572840052/

I'm much more in favor of hastily assembled "state tourneys" for outdoor fall sports than I am in favor of indoor November "bridge" leagues. I would argue both are silly and unnecessary given the current state of things. But there is money to be made, so get after it.

[InThePipes]

https://www.startribune.com/new-cross-c ... 572828162/

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-s ... 572840052/

I'm much more in favor of hastily assembled "state tourneys" for outdoor fall sports than I am in favor of indoor November "bridge" leagues. I would argue both are silly and unnecessary given the current state of things. But there is money to be made, so get after it.

The Boys Bridge Season is a money-maker? It's run by the parents, so if they are gouging the other parents on the team then I suppose it would be a money maker for those individuals. I'm not sure how many parents are into gouging other parents on the team though?

[Wise Old Man]

Yet 5 weeks into high school football there has not been outbreak associated to football games.

Go to your bunker and stay there until you die. COVID-19 is endemic like Influenza, not just a pandemic. Much harsher but it will not go away like Smallpox with a vaccine.

Yes there have been. They just aren't being made public. The Cloquet H.S. 9th grade and JV teams were shut down for two weeks. Pretty sure that hasn't made any news outlets. I guarantee you there have been others. Have also been a few soccer and volleyball teams that have shut down.

And again, with 40% asymptomatic, unless we are literally testing every athlete once a week, we have no idea what the level of spread is. Look at how many NCAA football teams have been shut down. Why? Because they're testing at least twice a week. Granted, the vast majority are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic. But significant spread IS occurring Goldy. If you don't think it's happening here in relation to sports, I have a large bridge to sell you.

New Hampshire shut down all hockey activity for two weeks and, as of 5PM today, Massachusetts is shutting down all youth and high school hockey for two weeks as well. Vermont is also considering doing so. Remember, because they do the "before and after high school Midget AAA" model, even their Mite thru Bantam players start in early September. And, the outbreaks started occurring about two weeks ago.

They're doing the same basic protocols our rinks and programs are. Our youth hockey has only been going full bore in our state for about three weeks. Any bets as to what will probably happen in the next three weeks? I hope I'm wrong but kids and coaches aren't being as "anal" about mask usage as they need to be in the rinks.

[Wise Old Man]

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-s ... 572840052/

I'm much more in favor of hastily assembled "state tourneys" for outdoor fall sports than I am in favor of indoor November "bridge" leagues. I would argue both are silly and unnecessary given the current state of things. But there is money to be made, so get after it.

The Boys Bridge Season is a money-maker? It's run by the parents, so if they are gouging the other parents on the team then I suppose it would be a money maker for those individuals. I'm not sure how many parents are into gouging other parents on the team though?

jg...have to agree with Pipes on this one, not much if any money being made on the bridge league..

[Wise Old Man]

This looks article tells the story!! PCR rates of 42 (what i understand the standard to be in MN) is useless! You can find nearly anything that has ever existed on the planet within a fragment of a persons RNA with a 42 PCR. It politicizes everything!

Why? Because when a vaccine is developed, they will come out with a standard PCR rate for all tests, say 30, and this will show how "effective" the vaccine is against CV-19.

They need to develop a rationale standard (which would be less than a 35 PCR) NOW. You would see the caseademic drastically decrease and 95+% of the people, who are living in fear right now could move on from this. This would also allow those that are "potentially" contagious to be contained in an appropriate manner. In addition, you would see the rates diminish to a small percentage of what currently exists. Life, for the majority of the population, would go on as it did and should!
Let's Play Hockey!!!

I love it when people say older folks dying from this is not important enough to change sports. Some lives are the ones we should base our decisions on! High school sports kids? 20 somethings with kids?

Hunter, we can care about older people dying and still work to live our lives. Are you an advocate for eliminating automobiles too? 50,000 people a year die from car accidents that wouldn't happen if we outlawed autos! Don't those lives matter? Where's your BAN CARS NOW movement? Is that on a different sports-oriented forum?

Kids need interaction. They need school, they need activity. There is a whole group of doctors suggesting the kids under 25 should be out, active, and socializing. You are incredibly judgmental, and often condescending to an anyone who disagrees with you.

6AA...first, can you please link to something regarding the group of doctors you referenced so I can see what they're saying? Would really appreciate that. Thanks

Second, I understand your frustration with "Hunters" approach. Believe me, I get it. My intent is to simply provide some context to your argument regarding auto fatalities. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, in 2018 there 36,560 people killed in auto accidents. Now, in 1979 the number of deaths per 100,000 people was 22.07. In 2018 it had been cut in half to 11.18. You know why? Because as a society we chose to make cars safer by incorporating advancements in tech and design that allowed us to mitigate the unnecessary loss of life due to auto accidents. Many of those mandated by government regulation. That means that, without those improvements we likely would've had over 75,000 deaths in 2018.

Fast forward to 2020. We have now lost over 223,000 lives to Covid in just about 8 months. And most experts say that's likely undercounted. Current projections of deaths by Feb 1 is now around 315,000. And that's still in just 11 months. You need to look at limitations in size of gatherings or capacity of restaurants and bars, or limitations on indoor sports not in a true bubble, and mask wearing the same way you look at mandated improvements in auto safety or, laws against smoking indoors. Same concept. Mitigation of risk that reduces unnecessary and preventable deaths...

Nobody disagrees that there are negative side-effects of these limitations on our society. But not one expert on the virus I have read or heard agrees with "the cure can't be worse than the disease". I'm not saying you and others don't have a right to disagree. It is a free country. But, this isn't going to last "forever". Unless your definition of forever is this June.

[wolfman]

WOM and Hunter win. My inside source says all schools will be shut down in a week or two. Walz will also shut down bars and restaurants. Your local YMCA and gyms closed also. Sad deal

[Eagles93]

WOM and Hunter win. My inside source says all schools will be shut down in a week or two. Walz will also shut down bars and restaurants. Your local YMCA and gyms closed also. Sad deal

Do you mind divulging your source? At least what industry/agency he/she works in? Will ice arenas be shut down?