MSHSL Oct 1st Meeting (Boys Hockey Season Fate)

[Docs_88]

Any idea when we will know if this is a 100% go or not?

[Hunters1993]

I hope the MSHSL will stand up and make the right decisions. But the precedent has been set with giving in. Someone threatened lawsuit and bunch of signatures for you to get your season. I bet someone will go with signatures and threats and you’ll get your state tourney.

[elliott70]

Any idea when we will know if this is a 100% go or not?

To my knowledge they are taking steps today.

[Duluth_Topper]

There is a Zoom call at 8:00 PM tonight.

[InThePipes]

The High School League better take note of this and start planning for a State tournament now. If they don't host a state tourney, another entity will, and the MSHSL will be cut out of the revenues from The Tourney '21.

Here, I edited it for you:

The High School League better take note of this and start planning for a State tournament now. If they don't host a state tourney, another entity will, and the MSHSL will be cut out of the revenues from The Tourney '21 and potentially beyond.

Obviously the MHCA is upset and it's difficult to blame them since they were by all accounts completely ignored. The MSHSL is walking a tightrope here and there probably isn't any way they can win with the coaches, parents, players, government and public opinion. It seems as though this could be an inflection point for change?

[Rails Hockey]

The High School League better take note of this and start planning for a State tournament now. If they don't host a state tourney, another entity will, and the MSHSL will be cut out of the revenues from The Tourney '21.

Here, I edited it for you:

The High School League better take note of this and start planning for a State tournament now. If they don't host a state tourney, another entity will, and the MSHSL will be cut out of the revenues from The Tourney '21 and potentially beyond.

Obviously the MHCA is upset and it's difficult to blame them since they were by all accounts completely ignored. The MSHSL is walking a tightrope here and there probably isn't any way they can win with the coaches, parents, players, government and public opinion. It seems as though this could be an inflection point for change?

And they were sued again yesterday for their Spectator limits. The hits just keep on coming....

https://www.fox9.com/news/minnesota-fam ... ts-on-fans

Look for an announcement shortly for a Special Meeting, followed by, “We’ve changed our minds, and will now follow Minnesota Department of Health guidelines on Spectators.

[Fightinghawklover]

Dear Minnesota High School Hockey Coaches,

The decision from the MSHSL to reduce the games and time with our kids comes as a disappointment.

Our Minnesota Hockey Coaches Association spent a significant amount of time collecting data and presented several plans which would have provided for the safety of our players and preserved the integrity of our high school season. Our efforts met with limited success. Instead of a 20-game minimum in the season, the MSHSL opted for a 30% reduction, a two-week delayed start, and no guarantee for a state tournament.
In an effort to preserve the high school hockey experience for our players, we have partnered with Minnesota Hockey to offer our players the opportunity to play in a Bridge Season that would begin on October 26 and run through November 21.

Those who are not already registered with USA Hockey must register at $56 per player.

Many of us have players who are participating in the Upper Midwest Elite League and HP Programs. Those affiliate agreements run through end of the October. Those players must be allowed to fulfill their commitment to those programs. They can rejoin your fall team beginning the second week.

Participation is optional and each program would be self-funding, much like our STP programs in the summer.

Statistics will be kept and our players will get a full game experience

It will be up to each coach to set his own schedule. (In fact, if you only wish to participate in 2 of the 4 weeks that we have set aside, you may do that as well! It’s your choice.) You choose how many games your program would like to take part in. It would be the goal to play each team in your division at least once.

Unfortunately, as of today, current high school league guidelines prevent high school coaches from working with their players. (We are hoping to obtain a waiver to change this.) For now, you should plan on working with your parent community in helping with organizing and recruiting the appropriate people to work with your players.

Please see the attached information sheet and respond to your Section Representative as to your program’s interest. We need a response by October 7 th - yes, no, maybe.

Minnesota Hockey Fall High School League
Bridge Season Outline and Information

Goal – To preserve the high school season by allowing high school age players to compete in the safest possible environment up until the official MSHSL start date.

I) All teams will properly register their coaches and teams with Minnesota and USA Hockey.
• All teams would be required to strictly abide by Minnesota Hockey’s COVID protocols. (Please note that all of these protocols were successful throughout the summer and fall seasons.)
•All coaches must adhere to MN Hockey coaching qualifications.
•All coaches and players must register with USA Hockey
•Players must play for the U-19 Team for which they attend school. (Players must be enrolled in participating schools.) No “super teams” with players from multiple schools. If some programs need to merge we will be able to accommodate this.

II) Season Outline and Dates (4 Week Outline)
Week 1- Tryout and Placement for “MN A Team” and “MN B Team” & Games
•October 26- October 31
Week 2 – Practice and Game Week
•November 1- November 7
Week 3 - Practice and Game Week
•November 8- November 14
Week 4 - Practice and Game Week
•November 15- November 21

III) Minnesota Hockey High School Fall League
√Teams will be divided into MN Hockey corresponding “districts”. Statistics will be tracked along with won/loss records.
*These districts would be unique to the Minnesota High Hockey Bridge League.
*Programs will be placed together by geography.

IV) Local Game Sites – Programs will utilize previously booked high school ice.
• New schedules will be built using previously booked/reserved game times.
•All coaches should check with local arena managers in order to make sure that their practice and game ice that has been previously reserved by the high school is available

V) Cost and Funding – All programs must be self-funding
•Fall Programs would be funded as you would fund an STP program.

VI) Officials
• Minnesota/USA officials
•$185 total per game cost for on ice officials.

Getting Started:

1. Please respond by October 7th you plan to participate and how many teams you anticipate having.

2. Secure ice time – best plan may be to blend already established captains practice ice with the ice time that you already have reserved for the two weeks that we are losing from November 9 through the 21 st.
a. Secure evening times for and “A” game and “B” game. Teams that have hosted scrimmage weekends could host a “League Festivals” where you could play at least two games
b. Season Schedule. We have set aside 4 weeks. However, it is your choice how many of these weeks you utilize.
c. You will work with other coaches within your district in scheduling your games. While we encourage you to stay within your “district” for games – you may schedule teams outside of these districts as well.

3. Recruit your captains’ parents/trusted parents/whomever to assist in communication and running the season – think youth hockey!! You’ll need volunteers for games, etc.

4. Assume that you and your staff will not be allowed to coach. (We are working to change this.) Recruit coaches for your teams. Many coaches already have someone who runs captains practice. Could be a good place to start.

5. Officials – Minnesota Hockey will provide a contact for each “district” in order to schedule officials for each game.

6. Costs:
 USA Hockey Fees: $56 per player (Those players who have already registered with USA hockey are already registered. No need to register twice!)
 Ice Time (Practice and Games)
 Officials
 Athletic Trainer

Looks like a lot of moving parts. Hoping it happens!!

[Hunters1993]

The High School League better take note of this and start planning for a State tournament now. If they don't host a state tourney, another entity will, and the MSHSL will be cut out of the revenues from The Tourney '21.

Here, I edited it for you:

The High School League better take note of this and start planning for a State tournament now. If they don't host a state tourney, another entity will, and the MSHSL will be cut out of the revenues from The Tourney '21 and potentially beyond.

Obviously the MHCA is upset and it's difficult to blame them since they were by all accounts completely ignored. The MSHSL is walking a tightrope here and there probably isn't any way they can win with the coaches, parents, players, government and public opinion. It seems as though this could be an inflection point for change?

And they were sued again yesterday for their Spectator limits. The hits just keep on coming....

https://www.fox9.com/news/minnesota-fam ... ts-on-fans

Look for an announcement shortly for a Special Meeting, followed by, “We’ve changed our minds, and will now follow Minnesota Department of Health guidelines on Spectators.

No spectators for indoor events is the MDH guidelines.
Let’s BULLY the MSHSL to do what we want or think we need. Let’s force our opinion! Do IT OR ELSE!
Great way to make decisions.

[ironranger2]

To me, this is essentially a gap season for the AA and few A programs with their single sport hockey athletes and the majority of Class A teams will take a pass. Not saying I have an issue with what the coaches are proposing, but most class A programs rely on multi-sport athletes to field their teams. That is the reality.

[Hunters1993]

Let’s think about life. Do you fight the system if grades aren’t good enough to play sports? Do you fight so little John can play?if he misses school the day of the big game do you fight to get him to play? Are you one of these coaches that turns the eyes when he catches a player doing something wrong? After all it’s all for the kids, right!

[Docs_88]

From the MDH website: Indoor events and entertainment: Capacity: 6 feet of social distance, max 25%, maximum of 250 people in an area.
I think all they are asking for is some consistency in the requirements. MDH says 250 and the MSHSL says zero. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as to if this is right or wrong. I have mine, you all have yours, and that is fine.

[Eagles93]

No spectators for indoor events is the MDH guidelines.

No it's not. I have been to 10 different arenas in the past month to watch hockey, apparently those 10 (city-owned) arenas are all defying government recommendations?

[Hunters1993]

Let’s BULLY the MSHSL to do what we want or think we need. Let’s force our opinion! Do IT OR ELSE!
Great way to make decisions.

[Hunters1993]

[quote=Hunters1993 post_id=750847 time=1602006912 user_id=27562]
Let’s think about life. Do you fight the system if grades aren’t good enough to play sports? Do you fight so little John can play?if he misses school the day of the big game do you fight to get him to play? Are you one of these coaches that turns the eyes when he catches a player doing something wrong? After all it’s all for the kids, right!
If we don’t get our way start a lawsuit. That is the way many are following!

[Corn Cobb]

Let’s BULLY the MSHSL to do what we want or think we need. Let’s force our opinion! Do IT OR ELSE!
Great way to make decisions.

Do you always repeat post yourself or is this a partial retraction from you not knowing what the MDH guidelines currently are?

[blueblood]

Hunters:

If the MDH recommendation is zero fans, why have there been fans at all Elite League and MH sponsored Tier 1 games in indoor arenas this fall? #AskingForAFriend

[InThePipes]

There is a Zoom call at 8:00 PM tonight.

Key takeaways?

[Wise Old Man]

There is a Zoom call at 8:00 PM tonight.

Key takeaways?

They postponed the call to Sunday evening after the District Directors meet earlier that day. Lots of push back at the youth level. Here's some things to consider:

First, current USA Hockey background checks are taking 10-15 days. And, since by rule no one who hasn't completed that or, the initial 3 hour on-line SafeSport class is allowed to have ANY involvement in any USA Hockey function, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that any non-USA/MH "booster club"/"parent group" will be willing to go through all of that to recapture what is essentially the loss of two weeks of hockey for the boys. Not to mention any of those same parents paying for the coaching registration along with the time to do the previously mentioned SafeSport class, as well as the required 2-3 hour on-line coaching modules as well as the on-line clinic.

Also, there is ZERO way that the attempts to do this won't require S I G N I F I C A N T current youth hockey association time and effort to make them work. Again, some of us can't even find enough PW and Bantam coaches, let alone trying to deal with scheduling 20 plus teams at all levels that meets the Covid safety parameters, to now have this thrown in our laps. Not sure our Board will agree to help as we are obviously obligated to take care of our current players first. Especially when in reality, we are simply trying to recover two weeks of lost time (Nov. 9-23). Yes, I understand that it's more about replacing the lost games. Which, is causing the high school coaches to think there will be some mass exodus of even average players this year to USA Junior or Tier I/II programs (think Omaha or Sioux Falls) and, even more interestingly, the actual demise of the current high school model. Sorry, that's NOT going to happen. This is a one time deal. Based on everything the experts are currently saying regarding vaccines, things will very likely be back to normal next year. Or, more simply stated, the coaches are acting in their normal, paranoid fashion.

Next, yes there is ice already scheduled for the various high school programs for either captain's practices -- which the MSHSL has supposedly banned, yet funny, seemingly everyone is still doing -- or actual practices starting November 9. But we sure don't have enough to make it work without taking away at least some ice from our youth programs.

Officials...in our area the actual MSHSL officiating group makes $95 for each referee, and $75 for the linesman in a varsity game. That's $240 total. Now, the local USA/MH association charges $215 total game fee for Jr. Gold (high school age kids). Both of these levels are three official games. Minnesota Hockey is now only allowing two officials on the ice no matter what the level. So, why on God's green earth would any USA official who's truly qualified to work at the varsity or even JV level (for the record, most in our area are registered for both) accept $90 per game to put forth twice the normal required physical effort to properly officiate the game, AND...potentially put their short and long-term health at risk??

The absolute minimum should be $120 per official, but $125-$130 being more appropriate. Also, the local USA/MH group has a contract with our district affiliates/associations to cover all of the games. So, I'm pretty confident that IF MH tries to work around that group's normal agreement, most if not all of the truly qualified officials will refuse to work the games.

Not to mention how we're going to pay for all this...Again, just to make up for two weeks of lost ice and 7 games simply because a group of the mainly, high visibility, AA, entitled high school coaches -- and trust me, the vast majority are that...don't get me wrong...generally very good and likable people but, still have a level of entitlement -- are so worried about losing some of their top players for this season and maybe next. It's simply not worth all of the work and hoops that must be jumped through and, apparently a number of other communities see it this way as well.

[elliott70]

They will NOT be registered through local associations. Local associations will not have anything to do with this program.

[Wise Old Man]

They will NOT be registered through local associations. Local associations will not have anything to do with this program.

Elliott...I realize that's what MH is currently saying. And, I'm sure they believe it. Not going to lie though, our DD isn't convinced either. If MH truly has a "plan" to make this work, you could share some details that might put someone like me at ease. Please explain in detail how this will not ultimately be run through the associations. Address in detail how the MH Board/Directors think the details I laid out ill be addressed. Sorry, we (the local association) has already spent time and energy on this strictly from an ice availability standpoint. Nice try though.

What about the officiating issues I raised. You do realize that one of the main things that the IRS uses to determine if an "independent contractor" is such is whether or not the fee for their services was negotiable vs dictated to/set by the person or entity the contractor has contracted with. Meaning, MH could easily become the employer of how many ever officials end up working. Trust me, I've been through this a couple times already. All it takes is for one official to file an unemployment claim for MH to suddenly have IRS people crawling all over. Think about the fact that MH continues to underpay the officials for state tournaments, including per diem and mileage and, that those fees are dictated to the officials selected year after year with no opportunity for negotiation. And that's with MH having millions of dollars in the bank. Strictly on this specific topic alone MH has put itself in jeopardy for years.

[elliott70]

Officiating is my one concern.
Not worried about the taxing authorities but the numbers available.

Most of the ice was already contracted for and is being transferred from ISD to the MHCA.

[Wise Old Man]

Officiating is my one concern.
Not worried about the taxing authorities but the numbers available.

Most of the ice was already contracted for and is being transferred from ISD to the MHCA.

Well, I'm glad you're at least thinking about the officiating. Locally, we've already lost a few officials due to Covid. Thankfully, none that I'm aware of that could effectively officiate that level of hockey. I've bounced the $185 total off of a few of the officiating leaders in our local area, including our district supervisor, and they're all concerned about most of our high school level officials choosing to simply not work.

Again, nothing but respect for what you've contributed here over the years. However, you didn't provide a single detail about how this will work outside of the local youth/MH associations, nor did you address the challenges I believe asking completely non-MH/USA affiliated parents to go thru the USA "hoops" to get this thing off the ground will present.

[elliott70]

Sorry, but I am not involved with the MHCA so I cannot tell you what their plans are.

I do not know what association or district you are involved with so not sure if I can help with the problems you seem to be having. I do know that only one district director has expressed concern through our normal channels of communication and that has been resolved.

I do know that local associations will not be involved with registration, collecting of fees, paying of bills, scheduling practice and game times, and hiring of refs and other activities involved with a hockey season. Those responsibilities will belong to the MCHA (and assuming the parents of the participants).

I hope this calms your concerns and you do not feel the need to raise alarm.

[InThePipes]

I hope this calms your concerns and you do not feel the need to raise alarm.

Have you been reading the message board for the past 6 months?

[InThePipes]

The High School League better take note of this and start planning for a State tournament now. If they don't host a state tourney, another entity will, and the MSHSL will be cut out of the revenues from The Tourney '21.

Here, I edited it for you:

The High School League better take note of this and start planning for a State tournament now. If they don't host a state tourney, another entity will, and the MSHSL will be cut out of the revenues from The Tourney '21 and potentially beyond.

Obviously the MHCA is upset and it's difficult to blame them since they were by all accounts completely ignored. The MSHSL is walking a tightrope here and there probably isn't any way they can win with the coaches, parents, players, government and public opinion. It seems as though this could be an inflection point for change?

And they were sued again yesterday for their Spectator limits. The hits just keep on coming....

https://www.fox9.com/news/minnesota-fam ... ts-on-fans

Look for an announcement shortly for a Special Meeting, followed by, “We’ve changed our minds, and will now follow Minnesota Department of Health guidelines on Spectators.

New guidance released by MN Dept of Ed today (per John Millea):

Each team at indoor events allowed up to two spectators per participant. Spectators must be separated by at least 6 feet between households/spectator groups, event spaces can’t exceed 25% of total capacity.