Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

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WestMetro
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by WestMetro » Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:19 pm

I hope Lou Nanne is talking to Gov Walz , MSHSL, Minn Hockey and 1-2 Private League owners . To broker some kind of solution . Kids and parents are caught squarely in limbo right now .

hockeylogger33

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by hockeylogger33 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:28 pm

Losing control of High School hockey by the MSHSL and local high schools is a real possibility if this all happens. This could be the first domino to fall in losing high school hockey as we know it in MN. MN could very well be on it's way to the midget model like many other states already have. High school hockey will just become a feeder program to Midget & Jr teams. I have friends in Michigan and the only kids that play high school hockey are the ones that aren't good enough or can't afford to play midget & jrs. If the MSHSL doesn't see this and fails to try to do everything in it's power to play a full season then maybe they don't deserve to be in charge anymore.

USA218
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by USA218 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:36 pm

hockeylogger33 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:28 pm
Losing control of High School hockey by the MSHSL and local high schools is a real possibility if this all happens. This could be the first domino to fall in losing high school hockey as we know it in MN. MN could very well be on it's way to the midget model like many other states already have. High school hockey will just become a feeder program to Midget & Jr teams. I have friends in Michigan and the only kids that play high school hockey are the ones that aren't good enough or can't afford to play midget & jrs. If the MSHSL doesn't see this and fails to try to do everything in it's power to play a full season then maybe they don't deserve to be in charge anymore.
This!

Wet Paint
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Wet Paint » Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:41 pm

hockeylogger33 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:28 pm
Losing control of High School hockey by the MSHSL and local high schools is a real possibility if this all happens. This could be the first domino to fall in losing high school hockey as we know it in MN. MN could very well be on it's way to the midget model like many other states already have. High school hockey will just become a feeder program to Midget & Jr teams. I have friends in Michigan and the only kids that play high school hockey are the ones that aren't good enough or can't afford to play midget & jrs. If the MSHSL doesn't see this and fails to try to do everything in it's power to play a full season then maybe they don't deserve to be in charge anymore.
It is sort of a conflict. We are told that the MNHSL model is what is best. Stay home and play hockey with your buddies you came up through the ranks with. Hockey is fun. Then we hear people saying that a AAA tier 1 model like the midgets will kill hockey in MN because the kids who can afford to go away will and those who can't won't be able to will have to stay and play high school hockey with their buddies. Those high end kids who are going to move on will have opportunities to move on and move up. Sort of like, say, moving from Ely to Hermantown on paper so that you can move up to bigger and better hockey. The difference here is that the kid who was cut from Hermantown to open a spot for the kid from Ely will now have a place that he can go play hockey so he can keep playing. The sad truth is that the AAA midget model of hockey promotes what the high school league says it wants for the hockey kids of MN better than the current high school model does.

InThePipes
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Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by InThePipes » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:00 pm

USA218 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:36 pm
hockeylogger33 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:28 pm
Losing control of High School hockey by the MSHSL and local high schools is a real possibility if this all happens. This could be the first domino to fall in losing high school hockey as we know it in MN. MN could very well be on it's way to the midget model like many other states already have. High school hockey will just become a feeder program to Midget & Jr teams. I have friends in Michigan and the only kids that play high school hockey are the ones that aren't good enough or can't afford to play midget & jrs. If the MSHSL doesn't see this and fails to try to do everything in it's power to play a full season then maybe they don't deserve to be in charge anymore.
This!
Agree, what are the the odds that the MSHSL recognizes what's riding on their decision? Does the truncated season of 12-15 games with no playoffs even allow the MSHSL to hold serve until next year or at that point are the players all pursuing other opportunities (Jr, private leagues, etc.)?

Wet Paint
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Wet Paint » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:15 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:00 pm
USA218 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:36 pm
hockeylogger33 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:28 pm
Losing control of High School hockey by the MSHSL and local high schools is a real possibility if this all happens. This could be the first domino to fall in losing high school hockey as we know it in MN. MN could very well be on it's way to the midget model like many other states already have. High school hockey will just become a feeder program to Midget & Jr teams. I have friends in Michigan and the only kids that play high school hockey are the ones that aren't good enough or can't afford to play midget & jrs. If the MSHSL doesn't see this and fails to try to do everything in it's power to play a full season then maybe they don't deserve to be in charge anymore.
This!
Agree, what are the the odds that the MSHSL recognizes what's riding on their decision? Does the truncated season of 12-15 games with no playoffs even allow the MSHSL to hold serve until next year or at that point are the players all pursuing other opportunities (Jr, private leagues, etc.)?
And then there is the fact that even if they get a season going if the numbers climb a bit what are the chances that it will finish or just be shut down due to the virus? This will be a very hard call for them. Either way they make the call.

Hunters1993
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:22 am

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Hunters1993 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:31 pm

What are we trying to do? Scare MSHSL into having a season even though their advisors, medical and otherwise, are saying it is too dangerous for the kids? MSHSL is thinking do we need hockey in a Pandemic. If you must play MSHSL does not want to be to blamed for outbreaks all over the state! Good for you MSHSL!
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

blueblood
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Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by blueblood » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:59 pm

MN Tier 1 Fall program has been going for 1 month now.
Play Like a Champion Today

WestMetro
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by WestMetro » Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:06 pm

We now have almost 2 months of post shutdown experience at hockey rinks all over the state. As well as many Minn kids that played at rinks in Hudson, Fargo, and Sioux Falls in May and June. There must have been hundreds and hundreds of hockey games by now in addition to practices and scrimmages.

Just how many Dept of Health Minnesota resident cases have been tied to rink activity in the last couple months? How does that compare to the number of games played? Did any cases require hospitalizations?

You would think Dept of Health would be providing this info to Mshsl, Minnesota Hockey, and municipal rink owners, in consideration for planning for the upcoming winter season.

Apologize if this was covered in a different thread.

USA218
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by USA218 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:56 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:06 pm
We now have almost 2 months of post shutdown experience at hockey rinks all over the state. As well as many Minn kids that played at rinks in Hudson, Fargo, and Sioux Falls in May and June. There must have been hundreds and hundreds of hockey games by now in addition to practices and scrimmages.

Just how many Dept of Health Minnesota resident cases have been tied to rink activity in the last couple months? How does that compare to the number of games played? Did any cases require hospitalizations?

You would think Dept of Health would be providing this info to Mshsl, Minnesota Hockey, and municipal rink owners, in consideration for planning for the upcoming winter season.

Apologize if this was covered in a different thread.
In addition to this, how many MNHS kids attended JR camps (NAHL, USHL, NA3, etc..) all around the country? They were around hundreds of other kids at each camp who flew in & drove in, in hotels, restaurants, arenas, etc... They all come back and play with their home team or summer teams and participate in group workouts. That is exposure in the tens-of-thousands, if not more.
How many breakouts have you heard about from these players? To take it further, how many of these kids became sick, seriously ill or died? Probably not a single one!

wolfman
Posts: 256
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Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by wolfman » Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:13 pm

The Super Rink outbreak must have been minimal. They opened back up Monday for business.

hockeylogger33

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by hockeylogger33 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:58 pm

Minnesota kids have been playing hockey in other states since June. Numerous youth and high school tournaments have continued through July in Minnesota. Both the USHL & NAHL have held camps with similar results as was mentioned before with players from around the entire US. All without major outbreaks or Covid incidents. What happens if Tier 1, Elite League, and other fall leagues play through October with similar results? What will the be the reasoning the MSHSL has to not start high school season on schedule?

Without changes in the trend above the only reason the MSHSL season is delayed is purely out of fear or political pressure.

USA218
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by USA218 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:50 pm

hockeylogger33 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:58 pm
Minnesota kids have been playing hockey in other states since June. Numerous youth and high school tournaments have continued through July in Minnesota. Both the USHL & NAHL have held camps with similar results as was mentioned before with players from around the entire US. All without major outbreaks or Covid incidents. What happens if Tier 1, Elite League, and other fall leagues play through October with similar results? What will the be the reasoning the MSHSL has to not start high school season on schedule?

Without changes in the trend above the only reason the MSHSL season is delayed is purely out of fear or political pressure.
This!

Section 8 guy
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:04 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Section 8 guy » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:55 pm

One question around the third liners are all going to go be stars with their buddies playing junior gold now and the coaches are going to lose them. If that was such a great option.......what would have been stopping that same kid from doing that last year or the year before?

Wise Old Man
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:11 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Wise Old Man » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:17 am

hockeylogger33 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:58 pm
Minnesota kids have been playing hockey in other states since June. Numerous youth and high school tournaments have continued through July in Minnesota. Both the USHL & NAHL have held camps with similar results as was mentioned before with players from around the entire US. All without major outbreaks or Covid incidents. What happens if Tier 1, Elite League, and other fall leagues play through October with similar results? What will the be the reasoning the MSHSL has to not start high school season on schedule?

Without changes in the trend above the only reason the MSHSL season is delayed is purely out of fear or political pressure.

Wow....just.....WOW..... :shock: Ok, lot's to cover so here goes. First, there have been at least 5 outbreaks that have been confidently tied to hockey activity. Ashland, WI., Fargo, ND, and at least three others in Minnesota. Along with others in other parts of the country. Have any of those kids died? Not that I'm aware of. Have any been hospitalized? Again, not that I'm aware of. However, that might not necessarily become public so, using that as a point of evidence when arguing the merits of whether or not the MSHSL (or Minnesota Hockey/USA Hockey) should move forward with "normal" game play probably isn't your best approach.

Still, along those same lines, can any of you say with certainty whether or not any of the players who've been infected will develop myocarditis? (See this article: https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-myoca ... 07b31.html ).

How about long-term respiratory damage/disability? (See this article: https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/07/08/fr ... ing-marks/ )

Possible permanent thyroid damage? (See this article: https://www.endocrineweb.com/covid-19-p ... id-disease ).

You know what, I can't answer any of those questions either. You know why? Because those possible effects of their infections may not present themselves for months (myocarditis) or even years (lung and thyroid issues). The point being -- for the thousandth time -- you aren't using proper logic trains or making legitimate risk assessment decisions based on deaths or even hospitalizations as it relates to the severity of this virus. There is far more to that equation that we've only just recently become aware of. Why do you think the BIG10 and Pac-12, where each individual program stands to lose between $75 and $100 million, have decided to postpone sports until Jan. 1st? Part of it has to do with the NCAA requirements regarding testing. They're challenging enough that even a number of BIG10 programs don't think they can meet the required numbers of tests and turnaround times. However, the other main reason is that at least 10 current BIG10 athletes have already shown signs of myocarditis. Not to mention the other potential health issues I mentioned. Plus, there are now even other health issues I didn't mention that are presenting themselves in relation to Covid. Along with the fact that even people who were asymptomatic are now showing these possible issues. Yes, the other three Power 5 conferences have decided to continue to work towards having a season. That doesn't mean they'll actually start and/or finish.

Now, this relates to the next point I'm going to make regarding the attempts that "hockeylogger", "WestMetro", "blueblood", and "USA218" are making in rationalizing that, just because the various summer hockey activities and their attendant travel requirements have gone on without some major outbreak (personally, I think the 15 plus people that were infected as a result of the Ashland event is pretty significant but..) or illness occurring (again, we don't know whether any of the kids who've tested positive have had to go to a hospital or not) is some type of direct evidence that should prove to the leaders of the MSHSL that they would need to be either "afraid" or worried about "politics" to not allow a full-fledged, normal game play season....

As I've said previously, these decisions take on a completely different level of significance when it's your name on the line saying it's OK to play. Especially when that decision could lead to the death of possibly not only an athlete directly involved in that decision, but also the possible death of a sibling, parent, grandparent, coach, official, or teacher. Trust me, I'm well aware of the degree of chance of that worst-case scenario occurring. Especially, to the actual players. However, that degree of risk to others in the possible chain of transmission rises significantly depending on both age and possible pre-existing conditions. Along with the possibility of one of the previously mentioned health issues occurring.

Yes, there is a risk in simply playing our great game. See Jack Jablonski and Travis Roy. However, as parents and administrators, we understand that risk is inherent to the actual playing of the game. And, when those types of tragic things happen, it literally only happens to that player. The individual action that causes that situation can't cause the paralysis or death of any other individual. It's literally a completely different type of risk. Even more importantly, the liability insurance provided by USA Hockey membership actually covers that tragic situation. Whereas, USA Hockey's insurance provides absolutely ZERO coverage for any Covid related legal challenges. It's easy for USA Hockey and even Minnesota Hockey to proclaim they're "sanctioning" a "normal" season or even a summer hockey program, especially when they carry no risk of liability if a player, parent, coach, or official ends up getting critically ill or dying. Think about that from a youth hockey standpoint. Especially as it relates to how getting sued and losing would impact your average Minnesota youth hockey association.

Have the kids sign a waiver you say...well, here's a portion of the article I link to below that discusses both general liability and waivers. Please read it and then tell me you think a waiver will definitively protect an organization.

...."Expect to see youth sports providers increasingly asking parents to sign waivers that would theoretically protect the organizations against COVID-19 lawsuits. Waiver applicability varies by state laws. The waivers have not always held up in court, and even if parents sign away their child’s rights now, the child could still sue in the future at an older age"....

“Waivers are a good idea because the insurance coverage right now is so wacky,” Crispo said. “The real intent for the waivers is to get rid of the nuisance claims – someone gets injured, wants to roll the dice and see if they can get some money, and they go to (a semi-educated lawyer) who says, ‘You have a waiver, forget it.’ The larger claims may not be covered by waivers.”

For those of you that missed my post from last night, here's the link to an article from the Aspen Institute Project Play regarding potential Covid liability issues for youth and high school sports organizations...

https://www.aspenprojectplay.org/corona ... lity-risks

Back to the MSHSL and it's impending decision regarding hockey. In his/her last post, "hockeylogger" says..."What happens if Tier 1, Elite League, and other fall leagues play through October with similar results? What will the be the reasoning the MSHSL has to not start high school season on schedule?".... Again I'll emphasize, that it's completely illogical to compare ANY USA Hockey/Minnesota Hockey sanctioned event or league and whatever perceived success they might have in regards to any significant issues with the virus...to anything regarding what the MSHSL chooses to do or not do. The first two have ZERO liability, while the MSHSL has complete liability. IF the MSHSL chooses to either shorten the regular season or, cancel it completely, it will have absolutely nothing to do with some supposed "fear" or concern for the "politics" of the situation. It will come down to their assessment of the health risks to the athletes and secondary people involved, as well as the attending/potential liability. Period. End. Of. Story.

Let me also add this discussion point that I've mentioned in previous posts. In regards to team sports, I am confident that, regardless of the level of play, there will be significant issues maintaining schedule integrity once players and/or teams have to quarantine for two weeks. This is from another AspenProjectPlay article -- if any of you are interested in reading some great information about youth and high school sports in general, you'll find it here -- that talks about the challenges that Iowa high school baseball and softball faced this summer:

"In Iowa, high school baseball and softball postseason brackets have been heavily disrupted by COVID-19 cases on various teams. Iowa was the first state to resume high school sports. Roughly 25 baseball teams and 20 softball teams have been impacted by possible exposures or infections, according to ESPN. One athletic director said so many programs have had to shut down with quarantines that “we’re all looking at each other like, ‘Well, it’s only a matter of time before we’re next.’” Chris Cuellar, communications director for the Iowa High School Athletic Association, told ESPN that social distancing has been one of the biggest challenges for some communities, whose policies are more relaxed as people at games act “like coronavirus doesn’t exist.”

The reality is, no matter to what degree we can resume youth and high school sports in the coming months, we will face situations and challenges that none of us can even conceive of at this moment. That being the case, all of us need to be mindful that those with decision-making authority will be doing the best they can with information that will literally be changing on a daily and, even hourly basis.

Now, IF the high school season is shortened or canceled, there will obviously be players -- especially the truly higher end players -- who will have opportunities to play elsewhere. However, my guess is that the MSHSL won't finalize/announce that decision until Nov. 1st at the earliest. Again, as I stated in my post from last night, these administrative bodies are likely to wait until the last possible moment to decide. Not because of some diabolic plan to "stick it to the kids" or "protect the brand" or the "state tournament", but in order to ensure they have the absolute latest and best information to base their decisions on. To be honest, I'm not so sure those in leadership at the MSHSL feel that having a less than normal season or, worst case scenario, no season at all, will be the overnight death knell of community-based high school hockey that some of you do.

Still, if that's the case, and based on the new rule Minnesota Hockey passed last summer preventing associations from forming traveling teams based solely on school attendance, I'm just not convinced that Minnesota Hockey will allow the formation of any new U-16/U-18 teams that are based strictly on school attendance, e.g. Edina having a U-18 team that mirrors exactly what their high school varsity roster would look like. Now, since Elliott was a part of all of these MH Board discussions the last three months, it would be interesting if he would be willing to share some of the details of the various "what if" scenarios that I'm sure were discussed. Still, for those players that aren't able to latch on with a junior team -- trust me, there's no guarantee their seasons will be started or finished either -- the Junior Gold programs will gladly take them.

Also, in response to an earlier post about how things are run in Michigan and other traditional hockey states...in a lot of cases, the kids who are U-16 eligible often play, for their "AAA"/Tier I/II team from September thru mid-November, then the high school season starts and finishes in late February. Then they go back to their "AAA"/Tier I/II team to finish and try to qualify for USA Hockey Nationals. For U-18 eligible only kids, they often play a full "AAA"/Tier I/II season or, if they're good enough, play in the NAHL or USHL.

I'll close by saying that people in legitimate, youth sports administrative leadership positions have always been tasked with ensuring that the health and safety of the kids in their program is their top priority. Unfortunately, this specific situation, with this specific set of circumstances, presents an extremely and uniquely challenging situation from a general liability standpoint. Meaning, if you actually try to put yourself in their shoes, it's not at all surprising that they might choose to limit or even cancel the season IF they believe they're putting the greater organization at risk from a potential liability standpoint by trying to play. Believe it or not, I sincerely hope that we are able to have as close to a normal youth and high school season as possible. If any of you choose to try and push back on any of the points I've made, I welcome that discussion. All I ask is that, in doing so, you actually respond to a specific point with specific reasons or rationale, and not a bunch of generalities or opinions that you can't support with at least some type of fact-based information. 8)

cigar
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:01 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by cigar » Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:41 am

Still, along those same lines, can any of you say with certainty whether or not any of the players who've been infected will develop myocarditis? (See this article: https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-myoca ... 07b31.html ).

How about long-term respiratory damage/disability? (See this article: https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/07/08/fr ... ing-marks/ )

Possible permanent thyroid damage? (See this article: https://www.endocrineweb.com/covid-19-p ... id-disease ).

"Could cause".. "maybe at risk" opinion pieces..

when you come up with some legit peer reviewed studies with numbers and proof let us know. Some opinion pieces to keep you shaking under your desk are a dime a dozen.. And you will not find much facts in MSM.

stupidity and ignorance are no longer an excuse. We are now in complicity.

You want to get over this BS? Do what Sweden did...

Hunters1993
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:22 am

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Hunters1993 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:19 am

Let’s come at this differently. If school becomes online 100%. Would you think that we should have a hockey season in high school hockey? Would hickey dads still want kids to play hockey?

If it’s no to the first question then how would hockey dad respond if there are outbreaks around the state traced back to hockey teams in the fall. And by the end of September it is all online still play hockey?

It’s a pandemic hockey dads come on!
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

Hunters1993
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:22 am

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Hunters1993 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:21 am

Yes you search hard enough you will find an organization that will take your money so your kid can play hockey. The Money making organizations (NAHL, USHL, tier teams, AAA teams) won’t worry about your kids health but yes they will happy to take your money.
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

Schotzy
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:36 am

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Schotzy » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:47 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:19 am
Let’s come at this differently. If school becomes online 100%. Would you think that we should have a hockey season in high school hockey? Would hickey dads still want kids to play hockey?

If it’s no to the first question then how would hockey dad respond if there are outbreaks around the state traced back to hockey teams in the fall. And by the end of September it is all online still play hockey?

It’s a pandemic hockey dads come on!
Hunters1993 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:21 am
Yes you search hard enough you will find an organization that will take your money so your kid can play hockey. The Money making organizations (NAHL, USHL, tier teams, AAA teams) won’t worry about your kids health but yes they will happy to take your money.
These are simply your opinions. And yes, since you previously stated that you do not have any connection to the game beyond being a fan, your opinion might hold a little less weight. You have a right to your opinion, and I respect it and understand the angle that you are coming from, but people here that are involved with the game with a bit more of vested interest cannot be made to feel that their opinion on the subject is selfish because YOU "think" it is.

Playing hockey is not really that important to the parents. Being a "Hockey Dad", I promise you it is a lot more important to my son than it is his parents. Hockey has been "happening" all summer with very little issue aside from the incident in Ashland and with MAP. Both were issues with the adults, not the kids. Hockey can happen without the adults. I will be perfectly fine knowing my kid is playing and not being able to go and enjoy watching his team play. Of course there are some adults that may not feel they are capable of not attending, but if they want their kid to play, that may be the only way it can happen.

Bottom line Hunters, you need to quit casting shade on everyone just because they have an opinion that does not jive with yours. Your name calling, and shaming is met with very little consideration and really makes you more of a troll than anything, which may be exactly what you are going for, I don't know.

I hope there is hockey in some form this season, my kid is just starting his high school career, and he has been really looking forward to it. He is anxious that it will not happen. It hurts me to see my kid like this. And no, it is not selfish.
Last edited by Schotzy on Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

HockeyStorm
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by HockeyStorm » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:50 am

Medical/scientific knowledge on Covid has come so far in the past 6 months that an outbreak should no longer be a threat to shut anything down like it was when the NBA and NHL stopped their seasons. At that point the thought was that the hospitalization/fatality rate was going to be unprecedented for any previous virus, and now where we are at we know it's not - and even less for high school aged kids. So IF the MSHSL can get around the fact that this is NOT what we first feared it was, they should go about the season with an abundance of precautions in place. But knowing how liability adverse that schools have to be now, that might be a challenge to get past and MH is going to benefit GREATLY from this.

Wise Old Man
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:11 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Wise Old Man » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:37 am

cigar wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:41 am
Still, along those same lines, can any of you say with certainty whether or not any of the players who've been infected will develop myocarditis? (See this article: https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-myoca ... 07b31.html ).

How about long-term respiratory damage/disability? (See this article: https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/07/08/fr ... ing-marks/ )

Possible permanent thyroid damage? (See this article: https://www.endocrineweb.com/covid-19-p ... id-disease ).

"Could cause".. "maybe at risk" opinion pieces..

when you come up with some legit peer reviewed studies with numbers and proof let us know. Some opinion pieces to keep you shaking under your desk are a dime a dozen.. And you will not find much facts in MSM.

stupidity and ignorance are no longer an excuse. We are now in complicity.

You want to get over this BS? Do what Sweden did...

Cigar...if you really think these are simply "opinion" pieces, then you either didn't actually read them from start to finish, or your reading comprehension skills need some work. Each of these health concerns have been clearly identified by trained doctors and researchers through the use of well established imaging technology. And, the articles clearly lay this out. Now, it's a free country so hey, if you choose to be a science denier because that makes it easier to justify your particular world view, have at it. Still, I notice you didn't provide any type of detailed, fact based, counterpoint to any of the specifics I mentioned. Interesting... :roll:

Just curious -- serious question here -- are you currently serving in any type of youth or high school sports administrative leadership position?

Next, what's your response/perspective in regards to the BIG10/Pac-12 choosing not to play fall sports due to the same potential medical concerns that the articles I provided lay out? As I stated last night, outside of the basic health of their athletes, those conferences/schools have a heckuva lot more to lose than than the MSHSL, So, if they're concerned enough to cancel, how do you defend putting even younger kids at risk?

How do you respond to the very real concerns that by allowing youth/high school athletics, especially team contact sports, we significantly increase the risk of secondary transmission to both the athletes' classmates and, more importantly, parents, coaches, officials, and teachers who are often older than 50 and have a much likely higher risks of pre-existing comorbidities?

Please, I challenge you to answer these questions in a detailed manner, supported by some sort of fact-based research and science. Believe me, I have kids involved in hockey too. The absolute last thing I want is for them to not have a normal season. Still, I also know we live in an extremely interconnected society. So, how I act or react to the facts around a once in a hundred year pandemic cannot just be about me and my kid. Literally millions of people are suffering as a result of this pandemic. I've even lost my job from it. So trust me, I have a very strong understanding of the realities. Thus, my kid potentially missing out on a single season of normal game play is a small sacrifice compared to what millions of others are going thru.

Remember, only about 5% of all players that ever start playing organized hockey ever play past high school. And, I have zero expectations my kids will likely do so. Doesn't mean it's impossible or that they won't, but having been one of those 5% I know how exceedingly difficult it actually is. Also, although I obviously try to support any of their sports related dreams and goals, I also talk with them about how difficult reaching those goals can be. And, that whether they do or don't realize those dreams, is all about their passion and work effort and not anything I or my wife can do. Maybe that lack of heavily emotionalized involvement in their individual efforts allows me to view the current challenges in a more "global" way.

Regardless, in my opinion we (those in leadership positions) have an extremely serious obligation to make decisions that put the overall health and safety of our kids first. Especially when the science around this virus is proving it to be more and more of a possible threat to the health of our kids on a daily basis. I realize this might make the hair on the back of your and others' necks stand up but, that's true even if that means protecting players from themselves or their own parents. I look forward to your response.... 8)

Eagles93
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Eagles93 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:59 am

Hunters1993 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:21 am
Yes you search hard enough you will find an organization that will take your money so your kid can play hockey. The Money making organizations (NAHL, USHL, tier teams, AAA teams) won’t worry about your kids health but yes they will happy to take your money.
You don't think MN Hockey/USA Hockey are money making organizations?

Dog
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:47 am

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Dog » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:47 pm

Post Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:43 pm
Hunters1993 wrote: 
And tgat is why we will not have things back to normal for a long time. Right there.

Get Your Mask in and we will be out of this thing in a month. Sports can go on then I quarantee!!!

‐----------‐--------‐

Everybody relax.
The governor issued a face covering mandate on July 22.
"1993" assured us on 7/23 that we be out of this in one month, tops.
We're only three days away from that one month so we're all good!!
Phew.

elliott70
Posts: 13703
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by elliott70 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:55 pm

Eagles93 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:59 am
Hunters1993 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:21 am
Yes you search hard enough you will find an organization that will take your money so your kid can play hockey. The Money making organizations (NAHL, USHL, tier teams, AAA teams) won’t worry about your kids health but yes they will happy to take your money.
You don't think MN Hockey/USA Hockey are money making organizations?
And what makes you think MH is a money making organization?

Schotzy
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:36 am

Re: Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

Post by Schotzy » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:47 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:55 pm
Eagles93 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:59 am
Hunters1993 wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:21 am
Yes you search hard enough you will find an organization that will take your money so your kid can play hockey. The Money making organizations (NAHL, USHL, tier teams, AAA teams) won’t worry about your kids health but yes they will happy to take your money.
You don't think MN Hockey/USA Hockey are money making organizations?
And what makes you think MH is a money making organization?
It's the associations that make most of the $$$. USA Hockey and MN Hockey get a small registration fee, like around $10.00 per player and USA Hockey gets the same. At least from my recollection. Sure they make some money off their tournaments, but so does MSHSL.

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