Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

[WestMetro]

900 new confirmed infections for yesterday (Sunday, July 19) and one child death, aged between birth and 5 years old.

These aren't the stats I want to see 7 days before Governor Walz presents back to school protocols.

There is something funny about today’s 900 new cases, 660 of them do not show a county , normally the cases without a county ID is negligible . Wonder if a clarification is coming?

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... ml#dailyc1

[Wise Old Man]

First, to OldManRiver... I’m sorry, so the Buffalo principle didn’t state it exactly the way YOU think she should’ve but, when you, Goldy, grindian, and 7Times, have to actually put YOUR fannies and livelihoods on the actual line from a decision-making standpoint, we’ll see how YOU react. You guys are freaking unbelievable. How about trying to walk a day in a person’s shoes before you criticize them. As she/he said, extracurriculars — as beneficial as we know they are — ARE A PRIVILEGE and NOT A RIGHT! Remember, they are sitting in rooms listening to the best medical experts in our state and, even nationally, in educating themselves in regards to making the best decisions possible

As I said in my original post ( a part which you skipped for some reason) - "I'm sure there are a myriad of valid reasons why not holding sports right now makes the most sense - but to drop it all on a "don't play or kids will die" type of ultimatum just shows an incredible lack of knowledge about a truly complex issue."

So if you're calling me out because I said it shows an incredible lack of knowledge about a truly complex issue to say that kids who play sports are going to die, which is the exact argument the Buffalo Assistant Principal (let's get the title and spelling correct at least) made, then I guess we're at a point where you are ignoring science and data and we are not going to agree.

Oh, and not that it matters, I am responsible in my daily life for actions and decisions which directly impact more than 6,000 employees and members, so my response to this is exactly how someone who "actually put YOUR fannies and livelihoods on the actual line from a decision-making standpoints" reacts.

OldManRiver, not sure I skipped your original post. If I did, I apologize. However, I don't think the Buffalo Assistant Principal -- see, I can get it right -- was "ignoring science and data" when she stated "don't play or kids will die". Is she taking the unlikely worst case scenario to make a broader point about the general risk assessment regarding playing sports versus not? Absolutely.... Are you doing the same by accusing her of not following science in order to make an emotional argument that supports your perspective? I think so.

My guess is, she understands full well that the science indicates that the vast, vast majority of high school aged kids, even those who get any symptoms, rarely ever die. However, you need to admit that, technically, the science actually does show that kids have died. Thus, I'm not sure how she (or I) are "ignoring science" as, is often the case, the science here actually allows both perspectives to be correct/have merit.

I acknowledge I don't know this administrator so I'm completely speculating here but -- hey, it is a message board for crying out loud, it's what we do -- but, my guess is she simply (and literally) believes that, despite the odds against it, losing even a single, and likely preventable life, isn't worth the increased risk of infection that playing high school team sports is scientifically proven to bring.

Finally, I appreciate that your employment provides you the opportunity to have supervisory responsibility over the numbers of individuals you say you have. However, if it's not specifically in relation to having to sign off on whether youth/high school sports will play (and thus kids will be at greater individual risk) or, kids are going back into the classroom even in the hybrid format, is a different level of responsibility than overseeing even as many adults as you do. Just my opinion and, I suspect you'll disagree but, that's how I feel.

[Wise Old Man]

John Millea @MSHSLjohn
State officials expected to announce back-to-school protocols week of July 27, #mshsl board of directors will meet Aug. 4. As of right now, plan is for fall sports practices to begin on schedule Aug. 17. #WearAMaskMN

Iowa, Michigan, North Dakota, Nebraska etc.... Have all green-lighted Fall Sports

Looks like I got all upset over nothing, Fall Sports in MN WILL BE MOVING FORWARD.

Everyone I have been talking to says schools are back and Sports are back just waiting for the formal announcement Monday July 27th.

No worries High School Hockey is back.... REJOYCE and we can shut this thread down!

ClassAGuy...I love your positivity. However, just because those other states are planning on playing, doesn't mean they actually will. And, although I trust you've heard from people you trust in regards to the MSHSL planning on starting Fall Sports on time, again, I think we need to not get our hopes up too high until it actually happens. But, I obviously hope you are right!

[Wise Old Man]

John Millea @MSHSLjohn
State officials expected to announce back-to-school protocols week of July 27, #mshsl board of directors will meet Aug. 4. As of right now, plan is for fall sports practices to begin on schedule Aug. 17. #WearAMaskMN

Iowa, Michigan, North Dakota, Nebraska etc.... Have all green-lighted Fall Sports

Looks like I got all upset over nothing, Fall Sports in MN WILL BE MOVING FORWARD.

Everyone I have been talking to says schools are back and Sports are back just waiting for the formal announcement Monday July 27th.

No worries High School Hockey is back.... REJOYCE and we can shut this thread down!

HS hockey has been back for over a month, all these kids are skating again. Whether they play this winter is still open for determination.

I think games with no more than 2 spectators per player is going to be the concession for hockey to happen. Zoom hockey for the rest. COVID combined with the flu is going to make for a nasty winter.

jg... I agree that IF we have hockey, there will be limitations on how many spectators can be in the rink. However, due to how much the individual school districts depend on maximizing income from whatever attendance they can get, my question is, can they legitimately afford to play the season if in-game attendance is limited to that degree? Not sure some districts/schools will literally be able to afford that.

[Wise Old Man]

I think a case could be made to continue activities as usual even if kids aren’t in the classroom.

Think about it: No matter how you try to mitigate the spread in schools, the kids are still in the same building breathing the same air and touching the same doorknobs. If there’s an outbreak in a school, every kid in the school is exposed. However, with sports or other activities, the outbreaks are isolated to just those groups. Spread could conceivably be contained and easily traced.

My kid is doing Summer Training with his HS now as well as a rec league. He’s certainly more at risk now than he would be in the fall (with the possible exception of in person schooling).

Just my thoughts. I hope they don’t cancel hockey, even if they potentially have to do remote learning.

Exiled... I actually agree with your logic on this very much. Although, it really should be easier to pull off high school sports if the kids aren't in class. Unfortunately, my guess is, that's not how the MSHSL/state education and government will view it.

[Wise Old Man]

I think the determining factor will be whether or not the kids are actually back in the buildings for school this year. If there is only distance learning and the kids will not be back in the classroom then there is no reason why they can't have high school sports or any after school activity. Have families sign waivers releasing the ISD/School/Coach, etc from any potential liabilities and go about the prep seasons. If they are back in the buildings, I can't see a reasonable explanation to allow extracurricular activities to continue. If they are back in the buildings it is not about the Athlete's or student's involved in activities. I think they can participate and be accountable for whatever consequences they may or may not encounter. The problem happens when the student who is not involved in extracurriculars, has Type 1 Diabetes and becomes infected by someone who brought it back from a game or meet. In that instance, the school has directly contributed to the spread of the virus to a vulnerable student who has every right to a public education as your hockey player or debate team member. That in my book puts the school at great liability. When you look at the level of quarantine professional sports league are requiring to SAFELY allow for participation, even NCAA Sports. The resources available to isolate and test are incredible for pro and college sports. The cost astronomical. I can't imagine there is a ISD in this state that can afford to test even a fraction of the times necessary to maintain a safe and healthy environment for minor, public school students. If there is one, good luck finding a second to compete against. I think it is more important to the government to get kids into the schools even if it sacrifices sports for a year. As sad as that may be. My heart goes out to the kids that could be denied a season this year. It will be a cluster for what I can only imagine will have to 16U and 18U teams put together by associations. Maybe some before and after teams will stay together but even they will struggle to find AAA showcases to get into at this point. What about ice time? Most rinks are booked to their teeth now with teams practicing and games for youth associations at all hours of the day. I suppose they will have to make due with their current high school schedules and play under USA Hockey. Also sounds like Canada won't be allowing American's in to play this year so now you have probably close to 150-200 American kids that will be taking spots on US Jr rosters, which in turn will squeeze the younger Jr kids back into Midgets. Might be tough for a Minnesota kid to find a spot on a Tier 1 roster if they wait for October to make a decision. It is a mess no doubt.

"Wanna"....as I just stated in my last post, I agree that logically, it makes it easier to get sports started IF the schools are doing all distance learning for the reasons you provided. However, although signing a waiver is always an option, I promise those don't always hold up in court. And again, if there isn't any high school hockey, it's highly unlikely there will any youth hockey either. At least not the type of normal game play we're all looking for.

[Wise Old Man]

Sports community reading

St. Louis County attributes youth sports as the "primary source" of driving COVID-19 community spread. The rising cases in young people have coincided with the start of summer sports programs. Contact tracers have noted a link to sports participation.

Youth sports a driver of COVID-19 infections in St. Louis area
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/edu ... 18b3b.html

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A Kentucky football team’s workout in a weight room is connected to 36 COVID-19 cases. The governor of Kentucky says he’s worried about sports without masks and social distancing.

Kentucky football team tied to 36 coronavirus cases after workout lacked proper safety measures
https://sportsnaut.com/2020/07/kentucky ... -measures/

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In Northern Nevada, two prominent youth football league organizations jointly announced they're cancelling their 2020 seasons due to COVID-19 risks.

Youth sports: Pop Warner, SYFL football programs cancel fall seasons
https://www.rgj.com/story/sports/2020/0 ... 459101002/

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In Philadelphia, a youth sports coach tested positive for COVID-19. He coached several games during the infectious period while not always maintaining social distancing and wearing a mask. All 12 players and 3 coaches are quarantined for 14 days.

Montco Youth Sports Coach Coached Games, Went to Party While Infected With COVID-19
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/co ... y/2468901/

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Youth football in Birmingham, AL is canceled for 2020. "We could not see a reasonable way that play could occur while providing the necessary safety measures to protect the many people who could potentially be impacted over a long season.”

Birmingham youth football canceled for 2020 because of pandemic
https://abc3340.com/news/local/birmingh ... f-pandemic

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While current hospitalization counts in Minnesota remain relatively low, “we are likely going to see increases in hospitalizations because of the ripple effect” of younger people becoming infected, Ehresmann said earlier in the week, adding that young adults “don’t live in a vacuum.”

July 17 update on COVID-19 in MN: Nothing 'off the table' as case counts climb
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/1 ... id19-in-mn

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The Edina School District says it is aware of about 20 student-athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 over the past week or so. Those athletes were in summer camps, many of which the district doesn’t sponsor.

Edina Mayor Says COVID-19 Cases Increasing Rapidly Among Youth, Urges Cautionhttps://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/07/07/edina-mayor-says-covid-19-cases-increasing-rapidly-among-youth-urges-caution/

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Last week, Edina Mayor Jim Hovland reported that the percentage of the city's coronavirus cases that were people under the age of 25 had gone from 12% to 74%. Hovland said, and MDH confirmed, that many of those cases were traced back to youth sports, house parties and cabin gatherings.

Minnesota's COVID-19 cases among youth are up 550% since May
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/hea ... b435afe834

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Here is what is happening, and what the rest of us need to prepare for: If as a parent you can pay the money for club sports, the seasons have a chance to continue, depending on state regulations.

If you rely on public state funded sports to play the game, the best you can hope for is a delay.

Kids, you can play sports during COVID ... if you have the money
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/sp ... 77927.html

Also just recently it was reported that 17,000 children under age 18 tested positive for covid which was 31% of those tested

"Greybeard".... previously released information has demonstrated that younger kids 5-19 or so, didn't become infected as often nor, if infected, didn't infect others nearly as often or as easily as adults. This has been a significant driver of the move to declare it's plenty safe to get kids back to school. But, just today a new study out of S. Korea is stating that not only due kids 10-19 get infected as easy as any adult, they can infect others as easily as any adult can too. This will certainly add another layer to the risk assessment equation when determining whether to allow kids back in class or not.

[Wise Old Man]

Wise Old Man,
You must have a lot of time on your hands.

In general, it's true.I usually do. Although that does vary depending on the day....

[WestMetro]

900 new confirmed infections for yesterday (Sunday, July 19) and one child death, aged between birth and 5 years old.

These aren't the stats I want to see 7 days before Governor Walz presents back to school protocols.

There is something funny about today’s 900 new cases, 660 of them do not show a county , normally the cases without a county ID is negligible . Wonder if a clarification is coming?

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... ml#dailyc1

From Tuesday star tribune


“state health officials said they have yet to vet about two-thirds of those reported test results due to a switch this weekend to a new data management system. ....it is possible the final daily number could decline “

[WestMetro]

[quote=WestMetro post_id=749495 time=<a href="tel:1595294405">1595294405</a> user_id=22850]
[quote=jg2112 post_id=749490 time=<a href="tel:1595267462">1595267462</a> user_id=22116]
900 new confirmed infections for yesterday (Sunday, July 19) and one child death, aged between birth and 5 years old.

These aren't the stats I want to see 7 days before Governor Walz presents back to school protocols.

There is something funny about today’s 900 new cases, 660 of them do not show a county , normally the cases without a county ID is negligible . Wonder if a clarification is coming?

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... ml#dailyc1
[/quote]


From Tuesday star tribune


“state health officials said they have yet to vet about two-thirds of those reported test results due to a switch this weekend to a new data management system. ....it is possible the final daily number could decline “
[/quote]


Today’s total dropped to Only 352. I wonder if there were adjustments to yesterday , or whether
yesterday just had some unusual backlog of cases that case thru ? Anyway , if you smooth out the two days .....

[elliott70]

Minnesota Hockey District 16 leaders will meet on August 4th to decide how to proceed with youth hockey within District 16 this season.

One of the major factors will be the availability of ice. We have ice controlled by cities, school districts and at least one where the youth organization owns it.

My thought at this time is we will have hockey with some differences (depending on ice and what the local associations do).

Starting the year one option will be to restrict travel to within the district. Once second-wave covid spread is experienced we may consider opening it up to surrounding districts.
Of course if the governor shuts things down (meaning no arenas) we will have to follow.
We will also restrict attendance within the arenas such as one adult per player with similar restrictions as advised by USAH.

It will make for an interesting meeting and I will let people here know what we do.

[goldy313]

California will not allow any high school sports until at least December.

Texas is pushing back the start of their football season for the two biggest classes until September 7th.

Florida announced yesterday (they live stream their meetings which was pretty good theater) that they will start on time, however schools can opt for a later start date. Schools that do can still play and the FSHAA will help them find games, though they may not meat the requirements for state playoffs.

By my count that is 16 states delaying fall sports: Arizona, California, Georgia, Mississippi, Kansas, West Virginia, New York, North Carolina, Hawaii, New Mexico, New Jersey, South Carolina, Washington, Wisconsin, Florida, and Tennessee.

Virginia, Oregon, and New Mexico (Along with Washington D.C.) have canceled their football seasons.

Southern Nevada coaches suspends their summer program tomorrow. Alabama will decide at a meeting July 22.

2 states; Minnesota and Rhode Island are waiting on direction from their respective governors to make any plan for if and when fall sports will resume.

All other states are either going ahead as planned or have issued no statements about a change in start date......except Michigan which seems to have conflicting statements.

[ShakestheClown]

This thread is long, and I may have missed it; but has there been any discussion about how the actual players may feel about a season being played or cancelled?

There are a lot of issues at play: potential infection, missing out on exposure to higher levels of hockey, just want to get back to normal, worried about infection others, forfeiting their senior season*, etc.

We seem to be talking a lot about what "we" as parents or fans want, but very little about what players are concerned with about a season happening or not.

*Full disclosure - my kid is going to be a senior, is going to play college hockey, and stated that it would be better to miss the season than to possibly endanger others.

[Hunters1993]

The simplest thing we can do to get back in school, the simplest thing we can do to open up and make sure our businesses remain open like they are, and the simplest thing Republicans can do to make sure I don’t have to take executive actions around the pandemic is to wear a mask,” Walz said.

[HockeyCrazy1970]

This graphic speaks for itself...
Since this is supposed to be about hockey though; NAHL draft was today

[grindiangrad-80]

The simplest thing we can do to get back in school, the simplest thing we can do to open up and make sure our businesses remain open like they are, and the simplest thing Republicans can do to make sure I don’t have to take executive actions around the pandemic is to wear a mask,” Walz said.

I’ve been on here for 15 years. I can respect that hockey fans come from many different areas in the state and have many different backgrounds when it comes to high school hockey.

IM starting to change my mind though.

[Wise Old Man]

This graphic speaks for itself...
Since this is supposed to be about hockey though; NAHL draft was today

Just curious, exactly how do YOU feel that graph "speaks for itself"? Although I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to say, I want to avoid putting words in your mouth so am asking you to be more specific. Thanks

[Wise Old Man]

This graphic speaks for itself...
Since this is supposed to be about hockey though; NAHL draft was today

Also, if you are saying what I think you're saying, how is it that over 140,000 mostly very preventable deaths can mean so little? For the umpteenth time, you do realize that almost 20% who are infected experience significant to severe symptoms and, a very large percentage of those (along with even a few asymptomatic people) will sustain life-long systemic damage and/or disabilities?

To be clear, it's estimated that between 20 and 40% of all Americans will get the virus prior to a vaccine being available. Forty percent of 330,000,000 equals 132,000,000. So, 20% of 132,000,000 equals 26,000,000. Approximately 26,400,000 people will either die or be left with lifelong damage to their lungs, or cardiovascular system, or who knows what else. Is that really worth it to play youth, high school, or college sports? Just asking for a friend...

[Hunters1993]

Hope everyone has a mask handy!

[HockeyCrazy1970]

Old Man (jury still out on wise),
I am honestly and truly sorry for you. I'm sure you believe what you are saying. Therefore you must be very sad and scared for yourself, your loved ones, and the world.
I see manipulated numbers. The deaths are full of "probable" and "died with". I saw the focus starting with deaths, then changed to " infection rates and cases" when the darn death numbers weren't scary enough, now it looks like it changed to "significant illnesses" to keep scaring people. Wow, "26,400,000 will either die or be left with..."

Enough is enough.
I know a bunch of people who have actually tested positive. I know well (people who I have had drinks with and been in their homes pre-covid) 5 families with a member who was diagnosed. In all 5 families only one member tested positive (apparently not very contagious) and that person was basically asymptomatic. They all quarantined in their home, living with a carrier, and nobody else in the family got it. Nobody was ill, and nobody is worse for the wear.

The numbers of people who have this and who have had this are astronomically higher than the graphs represent. Yet they can't find enough deaths. Flat...where is the 3-5 week trailing death spike? Somebody finally stopped filling old folks homes. Do you realize how low the death numbers would be if it weren't for nursing home deaths?

The math is fuzzy and scare tactics keep reinventing themselves to keep the sheep huddled/controlled.

Those with conditions that make them vulnerable/susceptible...hide and protect yourself. It is completely reasonable to be very scared. This thing is serious for you. The rest of us are happy to take care of you. Your behavior should be the same regardless of what the rest of us are doing.

For the VAST majority/rest of us...we have a country to save and hockey to play.

[cigar]

Amen

[cigar]

July 22nd
Total positive = 47,961
Patients who no longer need to be isolated = 41,511
New deaths today = 4
New deaths among cases in long term care/assisted living facilities = 3
Deaths = 1552
Deaths among cases in long term care/assisted living facilities = 1192
Hospitalized today = 273
Hospitalized in ICU today = 119
Percent of deaths that come from long term care facilities = 77%

[Hunters1993]

Does anyone understand the term long term side effects? That would mean year down the road two years, five years. So no extra harm sustained or long term injury to organs have not showed up yet and they will!

Does anyone on this site understand what pandemic means? It implies world wide virus. Out little corner of the world does not represent the virus effects. Come out of the little community view and understand what is really happening!

Put your masks on for the next month or two and I gaurantee hockey this winter!

[Usthockey13]

I believe WI is having an announcement on HS sports for the fall. Saw on twitter a poll from the ADs almost all voted to move fall sports to spring and spring sports to summer. Hoping to start HS sports with the winter season.

[BodyShots]

Old Man (jury still out on wise),
I am honestly and truly sorry for you. I'm sure you believe what you are saying. Therefore you must be very sad and scared for yourself, your loved ones, and the world.
I see manipulated numbers. The deaths are full of "probable" and "died with". I saw the focus starting with deaths, then changed to " infection rates and cases" when the darn death numbers weren't scary enough, now it looks like it changed to "significant illnesses" to keep scaring people. Wow, "26,400,000 will either die or be left with..."

Enough is enough.
I know a bunch of people who have actually tested positive. I know well (people who I have had drinks with and been in their homes pre-covid) 5 families with a member who was diagnosed. In all 5 families only one member tested positive (apparently not very contagious) and that person was basically asymptomatic. They all quarantined in their home, living with a carrier, and nobody else in the family got it. Nobody was ill, and nobody is worse for the wear.

The numbers of people who have this and who have had this are astronomically higher than the graphs represent. Yet they can't find enough deaths. Flat...where is the 3-5 week trailing death spike? Somebody finally stopped filling old folks homes. Do you realize how low the death numbers would be if it weren't for nursing home deaths?

The math is fuzzy and scare tactics keep reinventing themselves to keep the sheep huddled/controlled.

Those with conditions that make them vulnerable/susceptible...hide and protect yourself. It is completely reasonable to be very scared. This thing is serious for you. The rest of us are happy to take care of you. Your behavior should be the same regardless of what the rest of us are doing.

For the VAST majority/rest of us...we have a country to save and hockey to play.

Start the circus music!