Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

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Odds of a season happening

Yes 100%
37
42%
50-50
34
39%
probably not
14
16%
no way
3
3%
 
Total votes: 88

warriors41
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by warriors41 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:49 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:20 pm
But in Beltrami county we have doubled in the last week
How many cases is that exactly? Technically Roseau county doubled last week too. In their case they went from 1 case to 2.

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by elliott70 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:17 pm

9 to 18
Initially 5
Then the rest in
The last 3 weeks
First case to be hospitalized
Not a lot of numbers but
Enough to be concerned

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:44 pm

Mower County is seeing a pretty dramatic increase too, though it can pretty much be traced to the pork processing plants. Hospitalizations in the areas surrounding these pork plants has been extremely low. As canning plants get going in the next few weeks there will be other outbreaks in counties that have been relatively unaffected.

The Governor pretty much backed himself into a corner the past week with the protests then by allowing the memorial service as he did. I don’t believe he really had any choice, but to allow that then say 24 kids on a baseball field is to dangerous just won’t work outside a few places and people. Even the Education Minnesota will have trouble try to play the safety role now.

The U if M expects kids to be on campus, that is a good sign. I expect pockets of outbreaks; college football teams, canning plants, large employers, etc. but those groups aren’t the groups, by and large, this virus affects anymore than the seasonal flu.

Nobody I have heard expected Walz to open up indoor dining at 50% or gyms until early July. Today’s announcements, to me at least, makes the chance we have fall sports increase tenfold. Winter sports should be a cinch. And I was a negative nelly on this.

The vulnerable will still need to take precautions of course, so maybe grandma can’t go to the football games, schools need to make this stuff available in streaming. I expect to have to wear a mask at work until at least the end of flu season next April, but I work with vulnerable patients. I do not foresee LCF allowing visitors for awhile either.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:20 am

elliott70 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:17 pm
9 to 18
Initially 5
Then the rest in
The last 3 weeks
First case to be hospitalized
Not a lot of numbers but
Enough to be concerned
Maybe if your in a LTCF. Honestly, there are a whole list of other viral diseases causing more problems in Beltrami County than Covid-19, at these rates. That may very well may change though. Given there is a large university and a highly transient population.....if you are not an at risk member of the population those numbers are reasonable if not reassuring given the increase in testing. Hospitalizations is the number to be considered, not positive tests. One is not a large number.....heck, if you are 75 and smoked your odds of being admitted to a hospital are greater with the common cold.

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:20 am

goldy313 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:54 pm
Wise Old Man, that may be longest post in the history of this bored or the old bored, a good post and a good read to say the least.

To clarify..... my frustration is not with the teachers, rather the teachers union. Education Minnesota will (in my opinion) decide when in school education starts. Gov. Tim Walz has advocated a One Minnesota policy, right or wrong, he has been steadfast in that. If Minneapolis is not in school neither will Medford and Montevideo. Oh, of my daughters 6 classes, she never had an assignment or test she had to turn in in 4 of them. There were videos she was to watch or reading assignments but no verification was needed. In our district you could not fail a class for the second semester, you were given a A or a pass. They did not want to hurt your GPA

Masks.....🤯, I have worked in ER’s and surgery for 25 years. If I work in an OR utilizing a laser I have to wear a specific mask because normal surgical masks do not filter out smoke particulates. Smoke is exponentially bigger than a virus. Surgical masks filter out more than cloth masks, cloth masks may filter out something. Bad breath may be the most important thing.

Goldy, I realize it's been a few days but thanks for wading thru my little novel. I certainly respect the fact that you and your kid(s) had a different experience than me and mine in regards to distance learning. Still, I'm betting the majority of the teachers were putting in an honest days' effort most of the time. As for grades, our district called it a "no mark" grading period although you could request a letter grade if your work online the last grading period didn't legitimately reduce it.

Next, I agree the statewide teachers' union will have significant sway in whether kids are back in class in the fall or not. Still, there are number of teachers in the 60 plus age range so, they're obviously more vulnerable.

Maybe my experience is unusual, I can accept that. However I have heard the same from many people in other districts. There is some personal responsibility that is not the same from person to person. My neighbor is a teacher, a great person but she went to work 4 hours a week. The district put out the lessons for 2nd graders.

Also, my comment on not being able to snap, pass, or handoff a football came from a quote in the Star Tribune from the Elk River high school football coach who is about as a stand up guy as there is. It could be a school district rule but that is how I read the rules as well. Not only me but the powers that run the 7 on 7 games this summer I am supposed to work.

It is now June 1st I have zero faith football will be played in high schools this fall. I do think non contact sports have a chance. I do think the University of Minnesota will play football. I am sure the Vikings will play.

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:45 am

Wow, did I mess up that last post. Must've been more tired than I thought. :mrgreen: Here's what it was supposed to look like.

Goldy, I realize it's been a few days but thanks for wading thru my little novel. I certainly respect the fact that you and your kid(s) had a different experience than me and mine in regards to distance learning. Still, I'm betting the majority of the teachers were putting in an honest days' effort most of the time. As for grades, our district called it a "no mark" grading period although you could request a letter grade if your work online the last grading period didn't legitimately reduce it.

Next, I agree the statewide teachers' union will have significant sway in whether kids are back in class in the fall or not. Still, there are number of teachers in the 60 plus age range so, they're obviously more vulnerable.

Wise Old Man
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:11 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:04 am

goldy313 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:44 pm
Mower County is seeing a pretty dramatic increase too, though it can pretty much be traced to the pork processing plants. Hospitalizations in the areas surrounding these pork plants has been extremely low. As canning plants get going in the next few weeks there will be other outbreaks in counties that have been relatively unaffected.

The Governor pretty much backed himself into a corner the past week with the protests then by allowing the memorial service as he did. I don’t believe he really had any choice, but to allow that then say 24 kids on a baseball field is to dangerous just won’t work outside a few places and people. Even the Education Minnesota will have trouble try to play the safety role now.

The U if M expects kids to be on campus, that is a good sign. I expect pockets of outbreaks; college football teams, canning plants, large employers, etc. but those groups aren’t the groups, by and large, this virus affects anymore than the seasonal flu.

Nobody I have heard expected Walz to open up indoor dining at 50% or gyms until early July. Today’s announcements, to me at least, makes the chance we have fall sports increase tenfold. Winter sports should be a cinch. And I was a negative nelly on this.

The vulnerable will still need to take precautions of course, so maybe grandma can’t go to the football games, schools need to make this stuff available in streaming. I expect to have to wear a mask at work until at least the end of flu season next April, but I work with vulnerable patients. I do not foresee LCF allowing visitors for awhile either.
Goldy, as a health care professional, I'm surprised you think that the governor's decision to go to Phase 3 in the next week or so, makes winter sports a cinch. Especially considering the likelihood that there will be a resurgence of the virus in the November/December timeline. Almost everything I've read from the various scientific and medical journals indicates the second wave of most viruses is worse than the first. If that plays out for this virus, I find it hard to believe we won't be locked down for at least some time during the hockey season. Obviously, if we have a mass produced/distributed effective therapeutic or even a vaccine by October or November, then all bets are off. Believe me, I'm as hopeful for a season as anyone but, I also want to be realistic as well.

goaliedad31
Posts: 167
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goaliedad31 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:48 am

The Governor's emergency powers end on June 15. To declare a peacetime emergency he has to fulfill the following

MN Statutes 12.31
"A peacetime declaration of emergency may be declared only when an act of nature, a technological failure or malfunction, a terrorist incident, an industrial accident, a hazardous materials accident, or a civil disturbance endangers life and property and local government resources are inadequate to handle the situation."

The key phase is "resources are inadequate to handle the situation." In a June 5 filing to the courts responding to a Recall Walz Petition, the Governor admitted that "Those (efforts to address inadequate resources) measures have been successful." Therefore he no longer has authority to continue to issue executive orders pertaining to the coronavirus after June 15. He is instructed by law to call the legislature back into session to address further needs. All dials and executive orders should cease.

jg2112
Posts: 617
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:18 pm

Wise Old Man wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:04 am
goldy313 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:44 pm
Mower County is seeing a pretty dramatic increase too, though it can pretty much be traced to the pork processing plants. Hospitalizations in the areas surrounding these pork plants has been extremely low. As canning plants get going in the next few weeks there will be other outbreaks in counties that have been relatively unaffected.

The Governor pretty much backed himself into a corner the past week with the protests then by allowing the memorial service as he did. I don’t believe he really had any choice, but to allow that then say 24 kids on a baseball field is to dangerous just won’t work outside a few places and people. Even the Education Minnesota will have trouble try to play the safety role now.

The U if M expects kids to be on campus, that is a good sign. I expect pockets of outbreaks; college football teams, canning plants, large employers, etc. but those groups aren’t the groups, by and large, this virus affects anymore than the seasonal flu.

Nobody I have heard expected Walz to open up indoor dining at 50% or gyms until early July. Today’s announcements, to me at least, makes the chance we have fall sports increase tenfold. Winter sports should be a cinch. And I was a negative nelly on this.

The vulnerable will still need to take precautions of course, so maybe grandma can’t go to the football games, schools need to make this stuff available in streaming. I expect to have to wear a mask at work until at least the end of flu season next April, but I work with vulnerable patients. I do not foresee LCF allowing visitors for awhile either.
Goldy, as a health care professional, I'm surprised you think that the governor's decision to go to Phase 3 in the next week or so, makes winter sports a cinch. Especially considering the likelihood that there will be a resurgence of the virus in the November/December timeline. Almost everything I've read from the various scientific and medical journals indicates the second wave of most viruses is worse than the first. If that plays out for this virus, I find it hard to believe we won't be locked down for at least some time during the hockey season. Obviously, if we have a mass produced/distributed effective therapeutic or even a vaccine by October or November, then all bets are off. Believe me, I'm as hopeful for a season as anyone but, I also want to be realistic as well.
What's this talk about a second wave. The US may not escape the first wave before October.

New York and New Jersey might not be under the thumb right now, but California, North Carolina, Florida, Illinois, Arizona, Alabama, Virginia, Maryland and Minnesota are problems.

Also, and I have said this before, but the millions of people that have attended walks / demonstrations this week are exactly the worst thing looking forward. I hope for the best in July and August but fear the worst. Weekly demonstrations, colleges going back in-person this fall, etc. I mean, why did we cancel the State Fair again?

Sparlimb
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Sparlimb » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:38 pm

Can someone remind me who the last crowned Minnesota State Champion in any sport is?

:D 8) :lol:

It seems likely there will be hockey this year. Maybe just more of it will be web cast for us socially distant (by 2000 miles) folks...

grindiangrad-80
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:28 pm

Sparlimb wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:38 pm
Can someone remind me who the last crowned Minnesota State Champion in any sport is?

:D 8) :lol:

It seems likely there will be hockey this year. Maybe just more of it will be web cast for us socially distant (by 2000 miles) folks...
I think it was Rapids Spar. 😁

ClassAGuy
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:50 pm

Major Blow for Hockey coming back this winter...

New Guidelines came out from the Department of health and hockey fell under: HIGH RISK

HIGH RISK: sports that involve close,
sustained contact between participants, lack
of significant protective barriers, and high
probability that respiratory particles will be
transmitted between participants.

Rugby, boxing, judo, karate, taekwondo, wrestling, pair
figure skating, ice dancing, football, lacrosse, hockey, group
dance, group cheer.

Hockey, football, wrestling and Dance team look like they will have the hardest time getting clearance from the MDH who will control what the MSHSL allows....

Feeling a little less sure about this winter again....

HockeyCrazy1970
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by HockeyCrazy1970 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:32 pm

ClassAGuy wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:50 pm
Major Blow for Hockey coming back this winter...

New Guidelines came out from the Department of health and hockey fell under: HIGH RISK

HIGH RISK: sports that involve close,
sustained contact between participants, lack
of significant protective barriers, and high
probability that respiratory particles will be
transmitted between participants.

Rugby, boxing, judo, karate, taekwondo, wrestling, pair
figure skating, ice dancing, football, lacrosse, hockey, group
dance, group cheer.

Hockey, football, wrestling and Dance team look like they will have the hardest time getting clearance from the MDH who will control what the MSHSL allows....

Feeling a little less sure about this winter again....

How does basketball stay off this list? Anyone ever battled down low in the paint before knows how much contact and face to face, spit and sweat flying, sustained contact basketball is!

goaliedad31
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goaliedad31 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm

THE GOVERNOR CAN NOT DICTATE HOW WE LIVE. HE HAD LIMITED EMERGENCY POWERS. UNDER STATE LAW THESE GO AWAY JUNE 15. The legislature is the policy making body. They create the laws. Outside that, businesses or the state high school league determine how they react to this virus.

blueblood
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:08 am

👆👏.
Play Like a Champion Today

ClassAGuy
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ClassAGuy » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:25 am

Again just saying the MN State High School League will listen to the Governer on this....

The High Risk Category which I personally do not agree with is a BIG TIME setback for thinking Hockey this Winter....

Still Time but that category was a big blow to Hockey being back in November.

Hope I am wrong still going to think positive but long way too go and we are hitting mid June with still pods of 10

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:56 am

Is the hockey playing community really supposed to agree that it's okay for a hockey team of 20 skaters to all work out together in a gym on 6/10, but then needs to self-isolate into 2 groups of 10 people on the ice? That scrimmaging is too "dangerous" because of COVID? That the ice is less safe than the weight room? An indoor restaurant? A church?

Then you see on Twitter that YHH is holding full-on youth hockey tournaments in North Dakota in 10 days. I mean, if you can, why not? So what's the point of claiming kids can't scrimmage or play games if they can in North Dakota, Wisconsin, and Iowa? They can't skate with their full team, but they can travel to a different area (and risk exposure in that locale) or go to a 10,000 person protest? We're just hurting ourselves and our hockey players...for...what reason? COVID is no longer a valid reason.

I've been very, very much in favor of distancing rules. I have no idea what the "people in charge" are doing now. To hear health professionals blessing these protests on grounds of public health has been astounding to me. What are we doing?

The kids should just go out and skate.

blueblood
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:27 pm

This is all made up BS. There is no science is any of this propaganda being spewed.

Violent protests are OK but kids playing is verboten per Herr Walz and all his lemming accomplices?

Athletes are crossing the SD, ND, WI borders as we speak to play sports.
Play Like a Champion Today

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:57 pm

goaliedad31 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
THE GOVERNOR CAN NOT DICTATE HOW WE LIVE. HE HAD LIMITED EMERGENCY POWERS. UNDER STATE LAW THESE GO AWAY JUNE 15. The legislature is the policy making body. They create the laws. Outside that, businesses or the state high school league determine how they react to this virus.
Goaliedad, yes, we all understand what you are saying. What some of us are saying -- especially in light of ClassAguy's new info that that hockey is on the MDH's list of "high risk" activities (and I agree, how is basketball not on that list?) -- is that the MSHSL will, in all likelihood, follow these guidelines in regards to how they decide if they allow a certain sport to play. Quite frankly, if any sport is deemed "high risk"/"not safe" to play, I find it extremely unlikely that ANY sport or activity will be allowed due to the MSHSL not wanting to deal with any possible lawsuits that would undoubtedly come if some sports/activities were allowed but not others.

In general, I don't see how the MSHSL won't feel forced to follow the MDH guidelines as they're the best state level voice regarding the whatever the science of Covid is at the moment the decision needs to be made. So, if the MDH is still saying those are high risk activities at the moment they decide, I just don't see how the MSHSL doesn't follow them. Again, this is all driven by potential lawsuits.

Remember, although it's obvious that generally health children and young adults are at very low risk of dying or, even getting significantly ill, even Dr. Bill Morice, the Chair of the Department of Laboratory Medicine and Pathology at Mayo Clinic, when asked this past week by Dan Berriero about whether he (Morice) thought there would be in person attendance at school this coming fall, he said he wasn't comfortable saying kids would be back in school. His reasoning was that, not only is the world wide medical community running into more and more of these cases of Kawasaki's Syndrome-like illness, he also stated that doctors and researchers simply aren't comfortable with their lack of knowledge about this disease and how it might ultimately affect young people. Do we really think that the MSHSL's "avoid a lawsuit at all costs" leadership will go against the best science that state government has? Unfortunately, I know what my answer to that question is...

Wise Old Man
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:56 pm

blueblood wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:27 pm
This is all made up BS. There is no science is any of this propaganda being spewed.

Violent protests are OK but kids playing is verboten per Herr Walz and all his lemming accomplices?

Athletes are crossing the SD, ND, WI borders as we speak to play sports.
Blueblood, I'm sorry you think that Covid is BS. Based on your comments, I'm obviously not likely to convince you differently but, there actually is a very large amount of science regarding Covid and it's spread. Have the scientists, researchers, and medical experts made mistakes in prediction of spread, how it might be spread, or whether surfaces might be less contagious, just to name a few? Absolutely. The point is, if your expectation is/was that they would be closer to perfect in the context of a brand new virus, well, then you were bound to be sadly disappointed and let down. That doesn't or shouldn't mean we don't continue to listen to those experts. Trust me, I'm quite confident that they would rather be "right" than "wrong". Don't you?

Unfortunately, I think you'll find it very difficult if not impossible to find any legitimate expert in the various areas related to Covid that think any organized large indoor sports activities like the tourney in North Dakota is appropriate. In fact, I think the fact that YHH is continuing to put that event on is extremely disappointing as it's another case of the almighty dollar taking priority over kids. Yes, these other states are "more open" than ours. That doesn't mean the science is on their side. Are we just lemmings now? If they do it then we have to do it? No matter what the reason?

Now, outdoor sports is a different matter. As are the protests, especially since the majority of the protesters were wearing masks. Don't get me wrong, due to the closeness of the protesters, and the sheer number of them, along with the fact that things like tear gas and pepper spray make people gasp for breath, as well as make your eyes water, both of which make it easier for a person to be infected, I expect a definitive spike in cases in these larger cities where the larger protests have occurred.

Still, back to indoor gatherings, I offer a link to an article published on May 27th in Science magazine which explains the latest research in how the virus is transmitted.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/ ... .abc6197.1

The sum of it was, the virus is now believed to be able to aerosolize in indoor situations and the virus can hang in the air for at least a few hours vs, the original 6-8 minutes we thought. It also explains that our 6ft for social distancing was first established in studies in the 1930s and, with better measurement technology they now believe a strong cough or sneeze or, someone breathing really hard from say...having skated a minute long shift, is exhaling far more droplets than the 1000 per minute of a person just speaking loudly and, can expel those droplets much further than 6 ft. I actually posted 3 or 4 paragraphs from the article on the previous page of this thread if you want to go back and read.

I'll say again, as an administrator who has held numerous leadership positions in various youth and adult sports organizations for the last 25 plus years consecutively, the reality is that when it comes to player health and safety, we are always going to err on the side of caution/worst case scenarios. Let me emphasize again, although we are very concerned about individual kids having bad outcomes from the virus, the medical and youth sports community's greater concern is increasing risk of spread to others in the home (older parents/grandparents) or at school (older teachers and administrators) or at the rink (older more vulnerable arena staff or even coaches) who are far more susceptible to significant illness. Especially considering that it's estimated that as many as 40% of those who become infected are asymptomatic carriers. This actually isn't really about difficult science, it's more about basic, simple math. Having said all of that, I have a son who has already had his baseball season cancelled so, the last thing I want is to have him lose his hockey season. But, until we have a widely available vaccine or therapeutic, I don't think it's prudent to expose people to unnecessary and preventable risk.

blueblood
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:44 pm

WOM:

I never said COVID wasn’t real.

Where is the science to support X number of people at Y event?

Riddle me this Mr. 25+ year Administrator; why are Wi, SD, ND and IA, states that border MN, resuming play?
Play Like a Champion Today

blueblood
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:47 pm

Basketball isn’t on the high risk list because the handpicked IT guy Walz chose is, drum roll please, a basketball coach.

You can’t make this up.
Play Like a Champion Today

bodyup88
Posts: 126
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by bodyup88 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:36 pm

The fact that hockey is on this list but not basketball is a complete insult to anyone who knows anything about the game of basketball. Basketball, at the high school level, is played with 10 players on a court measured 84" by 50'. There are no barriers whatsoever, there is constant contact and it is a very strenuous cardio activity. This isn't the walk the ball down the court of the 1940's or Iowa girls' basketball where you can't cross half court. It's fast breaking, driving to the paint, taking charges and boxing out. Sweat is flying everywhere and deep, heavy breathing is a constant.

Hockey is played on a 200' x 85' sheet of ice (200 x 100' if it's Olympic size) with 10 skaters at a time (less if there's a power play). Players sweat like crazy too, but much of it is contained in their own equipment. Helmets have the ability to use a bubble to contain some of the particles.

The fact that one sport is deemed high risk one the other is not shows how arbitrary this whole process is. Make it up as we go along.

blueblood
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:01 pm

👆- agreed. All made up with no science behind the limits.

Rioters get a free pass. Law abiding citizens directed to stay home in the name of “safety.”
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TTpuckster
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by TTpuckster » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:56 pm

I agree. Basketball should also be cancelled.
What is a Green Wave anyway?

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