Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

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Odds of a season happening

Yes 100%
37
42%
50-50
34
39%
probably not
14
16%
no way
3
3%
 
Total votes: 88

elliott70
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Location: Bemidji

Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by elliott70 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Thoughts?

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:29 pm

The best news in favor of there being high school hockey is from Mayo today. They appear to be able to handle the State's testing demands in order to "re-open the economy."

The big issues are going to come from things most Minnesotans can't control. Namely, the people coming from States like Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Missouri, etc. who don't have anything remotely approximating a public health system to fall back upon, let alone mass testing, that compares to MN. Once those people return to travel within the general economy, the risk will increase for more outbreaks.

Also, once restrictions are lifted there will be more outbreaks this summer. What if a hockey team training this summer contracts the virus and is taken off the ice? How about a soccer or football team? If there's another outbreak, fall sports will be in danger and that will affect how winter sports are administered.

Another major issue will be "crowd control." What if the Governor mandates that people cannot gather in groups of more than 50 until there's a vaccine? The only way high school hockey games can go on in that instance is with no fans in the stands:

Team 1: 15 skaters, 2 goalies, 2 coaches, 1 trainer, 1 manager = 21 people.
Team 2: 15 skaters, 2 goalies, 2 coaches, 1 trainer, 1 manager = 21 people.
1 Zamboni operator.
2 referees.
1 scorekeeper.

Four people to spare in the rink.

How will this affect the League's finances? Teams' ice bills? Without fans, will players still put in the work to make this worthwhile? Will participation plummet? Will there be an exemption for the State Tournament next March? How would that group limit affect a building like Braemar or the Super Rink or Bloomington Ice Garden? There are easily over 50 skaters in one of the rinks whenever one ice hour ends and the next begins. Now add everyone waiting in the hallways. It's going to be a mess.

My opinion: hockey will get a reduced season from January to March, because fall sports will be affected by the "second wave" of the virus this summer. The hockey season will be no longer than 15 regular season games.

The Exiled One
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by The Exiled One » Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:58 pm

I think the season will happen. What I expect is that, with preventive measures in place, Minnesota will do a good job of mitigating the spread without a 100% shutdown. There will be waves of infections here and there, but if tests, PPE, and ICU rooms are readily available by the start of the school year (which I think they will be), then we'll soldier on as well as we can. Prepare for mandatory masks, temperature checks, social distancing, spectator limits, and other preventative measures. Basically, at some point, the public at large will demand a balance of risk and life-as-usual. Now is definitely not the time for that, but I think we''ll be there by fall.

SpOilerfan
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by SpOilerfan » Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:54 pm

No out of state transfers for public safety!

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:42 pm

Mayo has a vested interest in the economy reopening, there are three sides to their test: 1) far more people have antibodies that ever shown symptoms and needed a test. 2) Social distancing and our rural nature worked but far less of our population have been exposed than we think. 3) testing isn’t as accurate as it should be and we have no idea who has been infected or exposed. Two of the three are bad for having school stay in session next year. FWIW the same day Mayo announced they could test everyone and open the economy Nevada decided the same type of test doesn’t have the accuracy needed to draw distinct conclusions as of yet. Mayo’s version of reopening the economy probably isn’t the same as most people’s, I think it means reopening their economy. Politicians in some cities and states are already banning sporting events and concerts until January.

My best guess is contact sports in the fall are a less than 50/50 chance. Cross Country, girls tennis, maybe even soccer will go on as usual. We will probably even have a Legion baseball season this summer. Hockey has the benefit of time, we will know by mid November if there is a seasonal aspect of this. I think there will be but it will minor. There may be a delay in the season, but I think we see a pretty normal season. What if, say, Minneapolis, Duluth, St. Cloud, etc. don’t have school but Roseau, Redwood Valley, and Ely have school? You can’t have a season where some schools participate and some don’t. That might be the biggest question. I hate to go there but there is a Federal election in November, I do not put it past people with political leanings on both sides to make decisions based more on politics than science or health.

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:17 am

goldy313 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:42 pm
Mayo has a vested interest in the economy reopening, there are three sides to their test: 1) far more people have antibodies that ever shown symptoms and needed a test. 2) Social distancing and our rural nature worked but far less of our population have been exposed than we think. 3) testing isn’t as accurate as it should be and we have no idea who has been infected or exposed. Two of the three are bad for having school stay in session next year. FWIW the same day Mayo announced they could test everyone and open the economy Nevada decided the same type of test doesn’t have the accuracy needed to draw distinct conclusions as of yet. Mayo’s version of reopening the economy probably isn’t the same as most people’s, I think it means reopening their economy. Politicians in some cities and states are already banning sporting events and concerts until January.

My best guess is contact sports in the fall are a less than 50/50 chance. Cross Country, girls tennis, maybe even soccer will go on as usual. We will probably even have a Legion baseball season this summer. Hockey has the benefit of time, we will know by mid November if there is a seasonal aspect of this. I think there will be but it will minor. There may be a delay in the season, but I think we see a pretty normal season. What if, say, Minneapolis, Duluth, St. Cloud, etc. don’t have school but Roseau, Redwood Valley, and Ely have school? You can’t have a season where some schools participate and some don’t. That might be the biggest question. I hate to go there but there is a Federal election in November, I do not put it past people with political leanings on both sides to make decisions based more on politics than science or health.
Just touching on one point you made here. I'm not sure how cross country can take place without a vaccine. Thousands of high schoolers are camped out at these races for 2-3 hours, and then up to 200 kids are bunched up and running near each other for 15-20 minutes. The Milaca race has hundreds of school buses lined up outside the race site. That sounds like a public health disaster waiting to happen. The organizers would have to stagger races and decrease entries, and races would end up taking days to complete all levels.

ryguyMN
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Location: Western WI

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ryguyMN » Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:13 pm

I think there will be hockey. Whether there will be any spectators allowed to watch in the building is another question. I think there will be limits on crowd sizes until a vaccine is in place.
Ryan

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:53 pm

If students are in school then the kids are already, in most places, in a very crowded environment. No different from cross country meets, other than cross country meets are outside and can disperse people more easily than you can in a confined building. Many metro schools already have 2000-3000 kids in the same building. If there is no school there will be no high school sports, I think it is really that simple. Then you go up to what risk is acceptable if there is school, there it gets a little more complicated. If your community is largely untouched do you send your kids to a big meet? Do sports become largely just a local enterprise thereby limiting spread to that which is already occurring (Rochester could compete against Stewartville, Kasson, etc. but not Mankato or Faribault). Tough questions for AD’s.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:25 am

Governor Walz talked at his press conference yesterday about going ahead with planning for distance learning for the 2020-2021 school year, while prudent because we are clearly unprepared for distance learning now......in 4 weeks my daughter has had one.....one! assignment in total. She logs in every morning but has no assignments, beyond read this or do that but no follow up. It does not bode well for school next year.

InThePipes
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by InThePipes » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:39 am

goldy313 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:25 am
Governor Walz talked at his press conference yesterday about going ahead with planning for distance learning for the 2020-2021 school year, while prudent because we are clearly unprepared for distance learning now......in 4 weeks my daughter has had one.....one! assignment in total. She logs in every morning but has no assignments, beyond read this or do that but no follow up. It does not bode well for school next year.
When discussing the ancillary impacts of the COVID-19 situation, this one is probably underappreciated. I completely understand why it doesn't receive the same focus as the health and economic impact, but I agree with you this doesn't bode well if this continues into next year.

Immigrant Fan
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Immigrant Fan » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:57 pm

Goldy, One assignment?! Wow, my grand daughter has assignments every day and spends several hours on her IPAD working through everything. There are video chats, recording music assignments and submitting those, etc. I still think in-class work would be better, but I have been pleasantly surprised with how the academics have continued here.

On topic, I sure hope there is a season. My reason for not moving to a warmer climate will be severely compromised, not to mention they might stop delivering the mail if we don't have hockey.
Not born here...
...but, would hate to leave

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:35 am

Elliot, mine is a senior in high school, she has met all her graduation requirements set forth from the MnDOE. Rochester also has a widely disparate income distribution.... from well over 1 million per year to poverty. My experience at well be very different from most but still, the district gets per pupil funding and requires very little. My fear is kids are getting left behind due to income inequality far more than they were when in school attendance was required.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:27 pm

This week featured an intersection development, the Governor allowed golf courses and shooting ranges to open, trap shooting is among the most popular high school sports. The MSHSL ended the season in all spring sports the same day, even though school is technically in session. Why didn’t the MSHSL allow those sports to continue even though they were allowed by the Government? So, going into the fall sports season it stands to reason no sports would be allowed if, say, gyms are still locked down. The MSHSL just set a precedent. One that sets a precedent for every sport in every season. IMHO they made a mistake, golf and trap should be allowed to go ahead as it gives them flexibility for the fall sports season.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Fri May 08, 2020 11:34 pm

The Big Ten commissioner was interviewed today and was ambiguous at best,
but the AD at Ohio State was pretty forthright....if students are not on campus then there will be no sports. That leaves open the possibility some Big Ten schools will not have on campus students. Then you have this aspect, say Minnesota requires all those out in public to wear a mask, how can you exempt football players?

FWIW, no MSHSL athletic department can survive without the income football generates, unless we allow fans there is no reason to play the games.

The cancellation of any in person graduations by Walz today puts the fall sports season even more in doubt. My school was scheduled to have graduation June 6th. A big disappointment to many. Walz’s order on graduations just guaranteed a “lockdown” going into mid June at the soonest.

FWIW my employer told us to expect to wear face masks through at least the end of the year. If Mayo says that I suspect schools will do the same, you can’t play sports wearing a mask. You can not exempt people because of what they do, especially if it is a high school sport.

I am thinking there is a <50% chance we have fall sports. Winter sports starting on time is even less. I am hoping a January 1 start.

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Sat May 09, 2020 5:01 pm

I would imagine the Governor is going to have to decide whether to allow summer camps / training to take place in the next few days.

If he does not: (1) that's going to be a significant financial hardship on HS coaches; (2) that's a really bad sign for fall sports.

The news yesterday that the U of MN has all budgetary options on the table for next year was also very sobering to hear, as the AD included cutting sports. After all, the biggest loss leader at most MN state universities with womens hockey is, in fact, womens hockey. Would U of MN, Bemidji, Mankato and Duluth just not play womens hockey this upcoming winter?

HockeyCrazy1970
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by HockeyCrazy1970 » Sat May 09, 2020 5:12 pm

Title IX will protect women's collegiate hockey. It may contribute to hockey for no one.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sat May 09, 2020 7:37 pm

The Minnesota American Legion baseball season was cancelled today, That is a tough break, losing an entire year of baseball for these kids.

Stang5280
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Stang5280 » Sun May 10, 2020 12:03 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:34 pm
FWIW, no MSHSL athletic department can survive without the income football generates, unless we allow fans there is no reason to play the games.
So would you say that the loss of football could cause a domino effect on other sports for the upcoming season? It’s hard to envision a school committing resources to non-revenue spring sports in that event. There may be some exceptions, like East or Rapids where hockey is a big revenue sport, but overall that paints a bleak picture for 2020-21 high school activities.

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Sun May 10, 2020 12:48 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:03 pm
goldy313 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:34 pm
FWIW, no MSHSL athletic department can survive without the income football generates, unless we allow fans there is no reason to play the games.
So would you say that the loss of football could cause a domino effect on other sports for the upcoming season? It’s hard to envision a school committing resources to non-revenue spring sports in that event. There may be some exceptions, like East or Rapids where hockey is a big revenue sport, but overall that paints a bleak picture for 2020-21 high school activities.
My opinion - much more of the cost of participation will fall on individual athletes and their families. Sports that cost $200-$300 could now cost $800-$1000 to cover costs. That would lead to a decrease in athletic participation in many sports. I think football and hockey are sports that could be particularly hard hit in such a financial scenario.

kniven
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by kniven » Sun May 10, 2020 3:17 pm

jg2112 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:48 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:03 pm
goldy313 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:34 pm
FWIW, no MSHSL athletic department can survive without the income football generates, unless we allow fans there is no reason to play the games.
So would you say that the loss of football could cause a domino effect on other sports for the upcoming season? It’s hard to envision a school committing resources to non-revenue spring sports in that event. There may be some exceptions, like East or Rapids where hockey is a big revenue sport, but overall that paints a bleak picture for 2020-21 high school activities.
My opinion - much more of the cost of participation will fall on individual athletes and their families. Sports that cost $200-$300 could now cost $800-$1000 to cover costs. That would lead to a decrease in athletic participation in many sports. I think football and hockey are sports that could be particularly hard hit in such a financial scenario.
Agreed 😞
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

Jeffy95
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Jeffy95 » Sun May 10, 2020 3:37 pm

jg2112 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:48 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:03 pm
goldy313 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:34 pm
FWIW, no MSHSL athletic department can survive without the income football generates, unless we allow fans there is no reason to play the games.
So would you say that the loss of football could cause a domino effect on other sports for the upcoming season? It’s hard to envision a school committing resources to non-revenue spring sports in that event. There may be some exceptions, like East or Rapids where hockey is a big revenue sport, but overall that paints a bleak picture for 2020-21 high school activities.
My opinion - much more of the cost of participation will fall on individual athletes and their families. Sports that cost $200-$300 could now cost $800-$1000 to cover costs. That would lead to a decrease in athletic participation in many sports. I think football and hockey are sports that could be particularly hard hit in such a financial scenario.
They could always raise funds through a property tax referendum also. You would have to think a simple majority of the voters could get behind temporarily funding High School sports and activities.

blueblood
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Sun May 10, 2020 5:00 pm

Raising taxes to fund high school sports when our communities and local businesses are experiencing shutdowns with 20+% unemployment is likely not realistic.
Play Like a Champion Today

Jeffy95
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Jeffy95 » Sun May 10, 2020 7:00 pm

blueblood wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:00 pm
Raising taxes to fund high school sports when our communities and local businesses are experiencing shutdowns with 20+% unemployment is likely not realistic.
I think it all depends on the community, of course. And that’s the beauty of a referendum, the property owners decide. You’re talking about a pretty small amount per household, again, based on the community of course. You could even exempt businesses. Anyone who lost their job in MN should be getting equal or more of their pay through unemployment. I think it’s a viable solution. We have to fund High School sports and Activities. That isn’t really a choice in my mind.

goldy313
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sun May 10, 2020 8:31 pm

I agree most of the cost will fall on the athletes. There are probably a few school districts that could pass a short term referendum to help with the costs but I don’t see that happening in most places.

All schools lost track this spring, at my school track costs $180 per kid, between boys and girls there are usually around 200 kids. That is $36,000 gone from the athletic budget.

jg2112
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Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Mon May 11, 2020 9:11 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:00 pm
blueblood wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:00 pm
Raising taxes to fund high school sports when our communities and local businesses are experiencing shutdowns with 20+% unemployment is likely not realistic.
I think it all depends on the community, of course. And that’s the beauty of a referendum, the property owners decide. You’re talking about a pretty small amount per household, again, based on the community of course. You could even exempt businesses. Anyone who lost their job in MN should be getting equal or more of their pay through unemployment. I think it’s a viable solution. We have to fund High School sports and Activities. That isn’t really a choice in my mind.
The stress and uncertainty around this November's election are going to be through the roof, and I don't think it's reasonable to tie a high school athletic/activities department's solvency to it either. Example: fall sports are delayed / cancelled, winter sports are delayed, there is a second wave of COVID that turns everything into chaos, and then, on top of this, the community votes against the referendum? Does this mean track and baseball cost $2,000 per student in 2021?

It's probably incumbent on all athletics / activities departments to start fundraising now for their respective sports / activities in 2020-21. Emails, door to door, partnering with restaurants, gift cards, scrip, whatever they can do to anticipate how bad things could get this upcoming school year.

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