BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

The Latest 400 or so Topics

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

YouthHockeyHub
Posts: 1082
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:20 pm

BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by YouthHockeyHub » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:26 pm

After reading the "Turning Points" thread on the forum, the three of us dedicated a pod to it today.

Hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoyed putting it toghether.


Link ---> https://bit.ly/2X9ft5Z

Brodziak Fan Club
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:01 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Brodziak Fan Club » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:16 pm

YouthHockeyHub wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:26 pm
After reading the "Turning Points" thread on the forum, the three of us dedicated a pod to it today.

Hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoyed putting it toghether.


Link ---> https://bit.ly/2X9ft5Z
Nice! When the bars open back up I'm gonna tell people I'm a published author and I won't totally be lying :wink: . Can't wait to listen!

Also, I really enjoyed the Pizza Pod with Sammy Walker. I look forward to listening to more of those. I bet Randolph tells some great stories on his episode.

Stang5280
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Stang5280 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Great stuff from the tres amigos. The surprise podcast brightened up my Sunday, and I particularly enjoyed some of the historical discussion.

Two points I wanted to follow up on...

1. Tony mentioned the closure of Columbia as being the death knell for hockey in places like Columbia Heights and Brooklyn Park. Regarding the latter, I’m sure he knows that BP has its own arena with two sheets, and it actually served as the home rink for several high schools (Park Center, Brooklyn Center, Osseo, and Totino Grace) over the years. The struggles of places like BP and BC to field teams are due to changing demographics, not lack of ice.

2. Your information on Breck is pretty much on the money (pun intended). I would add that Breck is quite generous with need-based financial aid for all students who require it, but the issue was more of hockey players receiving disproportionate aid, usually under the guise of “alumni scholarships.” The administration was fine with that for many years until certain people believed the hockey program was being overemphasized (particularly when Larson desired a move to AA). This started after the 2014-15 season, and while there was still plenty of talent around for a few more good runs, things have dried up since then, hastened by Blake moving up to AA.

WestMetro
Posts: 3050
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by WestMetro » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:36 pm

Good one guys ! Lots of great memories!

YouthHockeyHub
Posts: 1082
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:20 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by YouthHockeyHub » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:48 pm

Stangs - yeah, I know that BP has a rink. When I said BP, I was referring to the corridor of communities along 252/65 within a radius of Columbia (NE MPLS, Fridley, Columbia Heights, BP, New Brighton).

Demographic or not, any loss of indoor ice is bad for the game. Rebuilding hockey in the inner ring suburbs is challenging enough, but with no available ice. It's a death blow.

Stang5280
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Stang5280 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:09 pm

YouthHockeyHub wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:48 pm
Stangs - yeah, I know that BP has a rink. When I said BP, I was referring to the corridor of communities along 252/65 within a radius of Columbia (NE MPLS, Fridley, Columbia Heights, BP, New Brighton).

Demographic or not, any loss of indoor ice is bad for the game. Rebuilding hockey in the inner ring suburbs is challenging enough, but with no available ice. It's a death blow.
Sorry if I came off as nitpicking above, Tony. Your point about availability of ice is very valid, and losing places like Columbia, even though it was pretty run down, is a indeed a blow to the sport. My counterpoint, which was not made all that clearly, is that even communities like BP with nice facilities (craft shows and all :lol:), can’t support hockey if the youth numbers aren’t there. The North Metro association has more ice time than they can ever use, but hockey is still dead at those high schools, with little hope of revival. At least the arena still seems to be thriving and being used, even it is frequently by other youth associations.

P.S. I got a good laugh from Danny’s description of Breck’s wacky ice surface. That arena was a dump, but the smaller sheet and various quirks definitely made for a home ice advantage.

SquirtC'00
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by SquirtC'00 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:38 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:09 pm
YouthHockeyHub wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:48 pm
Stangs - yeah, I know that BP has a rink. When I said BP, I was referring to the corridor of communities along 252/65 within a radius of Columbia (NE MPLS, Fridley, Columbia Heights, BP, New Brighton).

Demographic or not, any loss of indoor ice is bad for the game. Rebuilding hockey in the inner ring suburbs is challenging enough, but with no available ice. It's a death blow.
Sorry if I came off as nitpicking above, Tony. Your point about availability of ice is very valid, and losing places like Columbia, even though it was pretty run down, is a indeed a blow to the sport. My counterpoint, which was not made all that clearly, is that even communities like BP with nice facilities (craft shows and all :lol:), can’t support hockey if the youth numbers aren’t there. The North Metro association has more ice time than they can ever use, but hockey is still dead at those high schools, with little hope of revival. At least the arena still seems to be thriving and being used, even it is frequently by other youth associations.

P.S. I got a good laugh from Danny’s description of Breck’s wacky ice surface. That arena was a dump, but the smaller sheet and various quirks definitely made for a home ice advantage.
Dude I remember as a kid we would skate there and on drills and laps i would coast down once i hit the blue line, it was AWESOME.

hockey59
Posts: 1700
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 11:01 am

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by hockey59 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:05 pm

Brodziak Fan Club wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:16 pm
YouthHockeyHub wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:26 pm
After reading the "Turning Points" thread on the forum, the three of us dedicated a pod to it today.

Hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoyed putting it toghether.


Link ---> https://bit.ly/2X9ft5Z
Nice! When the bars open back up I'm gonna tell people I'm a published author and I won't totally be lying :wink: . Can't wait to listen!

Also, I really enjoyed the Pizza Pod with Sammy Walker. I look forward to listening to more of those. I bet Randolph tells some great stories on his episode.
The turning points podcast is top 5 All Time☝️When I moved to the SE corner of Ramsey, MN summer 1994, a same block neighbors son was a 1st year on the Anoka Bantam A team and their nemesis (the team this group struggled to get by) was Bloomington Jefferson. Sadly, 25 years later, both programs have hit lean times that neither will likely recover from. And while 1995-2005 was a decade where the NW suburban conference had their day in the sun, with 3 of them winning AA State titles & a 4th joining the Conf the year after winning State, the past 10-15 years have been dominated by SW metro schools, other than HM breaking threw in 2008 & 2020 & LVN in 2015 & Roseau in 2007 & GR in 2017☝️

Doc Holliday
Posts: 578
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:20 pm
Location: SW Suburbs

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Doc Holliday » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:10 am

Stang5280 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:19 pm
2. Your information on Breck is pretty much on the money (pun intended). I would add that Breck is quite generous with need-based financial aid for all students who require it, but the issue was more of hockey players receiving disproportionate aid, usually under the guise of “alumni scholarships.” The administration was fine with that for many years until certain people believed the hockey program was being overemphasized (particularly when Larson desired a move to AA). This started after the 2014-15 season, and while there was still plenty of talent around for a few more good runs, things have dried up since then, hastened by Blake moving up to AA.
Growing up in the SW suburbs, it always seemed like Breck was the more successful school athletically & Blake was the one that seemed above such nonsense. Benilde rose in the mid to late 90s in terms of hockey success. It almost seems like it's kind of flipped with Blake & Breck.

You probably have a better idea than I do, but what's kind of triggered that? What is it that Blake has done more so than just "emphasizing athletics?" Any particular leadership changes? Alumni influences? School policy changes? Tuition changes? Just seeing the success that Benilde has had & saying "we can be that too?"

Doc Holliday
Posts: 578
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:20 pm
Location: SW Suburbs

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Doc Holliday » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:12 am

Stang5280 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:19 pm
2. Your information on Breck is pretty much on the money (pun intended). I would add that Breck is quite generous with need-based financial aid for all students who require it, but the issue was more of hockey players receiving disproportionate aid, usually under the guise of “alumni scholarships.” The administration was fine with that for many years until certain people believed the hockey program was being overemphasized (particularly when Larson desired a move to AA). This started after the 2014-15 season, and while there was still plenty of talent around for a few more good runs, things have dried up since then, hastened by Blake moving up to AA.
Growing up in the SW suburbs, it always seemed like Breck was the more successful school athletically & Blake was the one that seemed above such nonsense. Benilde rose in the mid to late 90s in terms of hockey success. It almost seems like it's kind of flipped with Blake & Breck.

You probably have a better idea than I do, but what kind of triggered that? What is it that Blake has done more so than just "emphasizing athletics?" Any particular leadership changes? Alumni influences? School policy changes? Tuition changes? Just seeing the success that Benilde has had & saying "we can be that too?"
Last edited by Doc Holliday on Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

Doc Holliday
Posts: 578
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:20 pm
Location: SW Suburbs

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Doc Holliday » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:12 am

Stang5280 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:19 pm
2. Your information on Breck is pretty much on the money (pun intended). I would add that Breck is quite generous with need-based financial aid for all students who require it, but the issue was more of hockey players receiving disproportionate aid, usually under the guise of “alumni scholarships.” The administration was fine with that for many years until certain people believed the hockey program was being overemphasized (particularly when Larson desired a move to AA). This started after the 2014-15 season, and while there was still plenty of talent around for a few more good runs, things have dried up since then, hastened by Blake moving up to AA.
Growing up in the SW suburbs, it always seemed like Breck was the more successful school athletically & Blake was the one that seemed above such nonsense. Benilde rose in the mid to late 90s in terms of hockey success. It almost seems like it's kind of flipped with Blake & Breck.

You probably have a better idea than I do, but what kind of triggered that? What is it that Blake has done more so than just "emphasizing athletics?" Any particular leadership changes? Alumni influences? School policy changes? Tuition changes? Just seeing the success that Benilde has had & saying "we can be that too?"

GoldenBear
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:38 am

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by GoldenBear » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:43 am

Doc, try decaf in the morning. At least you didn't read all three and before the last sentence in third one ask yourself..."this sounds familiar". Sucks to get old. GB

xy
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:11 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by xy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:40 am

I was once told - it was so long ago I can't remember by whom but I do recall it was someone whose views I trusted - that schools like Benilde and Holy Angels made a conscious decision in the late 90s/early 00s to emphasize sports more primarily for business reasons. Attracting kids who might be attending for athletic reasons (to be fair, these are good schools and many families have multiple reasons for sending kids there) serves to create an additional pool of potential students and keep enrollments up. I would guess that other private schools on the west side saw what was happening and all applied the same philosophy, to differing degrees. Minnehaha Academy seems to have been a latecomer to the game but is now following suit in basketball and football.

Stang5280
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:58 pm

Doc Holliday wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:12 am
Growing up in the SW suburbs, it always seemed like Breck was the more successful school athletically & Blake was the one that seemed above such nonsense. Benilde rose in the mid to late 90s in terms of hockey success. It almost seems like it's kind of flipped with Blake & Breck.

You probably have a better idea than I do, but what kind of triggered that? What is it that Blake has done more so than just "emphasizing athletics?" Any particular leadership changes? Alumni influences? School policy changes? Tuition changes? Just seeing the success that Benilde has had & saying "we can be that too?"
I’m not sure how old you are, but actually Blake has historically had more athletic success than Breck. Blake was better in the higher profile sports like football and basketball throughout the 70s and 80s, and had a great run in boys’ hoops during the 90s. The Bears were dominant in a few minor sports as well, particularly tennis. They also were the better hockey program during ye olde single class days, winning 11 of 13 Tri-Metro championships between 1975 and 1987, and advanced to the Section 5 finals twice during that span. (Breck had a nice stretch when I was there, of course :D). Breck turned the tide in the 90s and aughts in football and hockey, and perhaps that is why you associate them as having stronger athletics.

As for the reasons behind Blake’s recent success, I don’t believe there are any structural reasons behind it. The headmaster and AD have been there for years, and tuition is still sky high. From what I gather it started with the AD reevaluating where Blake belonged in facing appropriate competition in certain sports. Tennis was the obvious one, as they had basically become bored with winning single A titles. Girls hockey was next on the list, and the boys’ program was basically elevated to AA so the two would be on par with one another. I don’t think they were ready initially, but I have to give them credit for having a vision for the program and attracting some excellent young players who were willing to lay the groundwork for success. I’m sure there is more to the story behind the scenes, but that is my basic understanding.

Stang5280
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:07 pm

xy wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:40 am
I was once told - it was so long ago I can't remember by whom but I do recall it was someone whose views I trusted - that schools like Benilde and Holy Angels made a conscious decision in the late 90s/early 00s to emphasize sports more primarily for business reasons. Attracting kids who might be attending for athletic reasons (to be fair, these are good schools and many families have multiple reasons for sending kids there) serves to create an additional pool of potential students and keep enrollments up. I would guess that other private schools on the west side saw what was happening and all applied the same philosophy, to differing degrees. Minnehaha Academy seems to have been a latecomer to the game but is now following suit in basketball and football.
Shattuck was on the brink of closure around 1990, and their decision to emphasize hockey was a Hail Mary plan to hopefully bring in students and alumni donations. I don’t think they ever envisioned it becoming this successful, but it was a bold move that saved the school from going under.

gopherpuck516
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:59 am

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by gopherpuck516 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:27 pm

xy wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:40 am
I was once told - it was so long ago I can't remember by whom but I do recall it was someone whose views I trusted - that schools like Benilde and Holy Angels made a conscious decision in the late 90s/early 00s to emphasize sports more primarily for business reasons. Attracting kids who might be attending for athletic reasons (to be fair, these are good schools and many families have multiple reasons for sending kids there) serves to create an additional pool of potential students and keep enrollments up. I would guess that other private schools on the west side saw what was happening and all applied the same philosophy, to differing degrees. Minnehaha Academy seems to have been a latecomer to the game but is now following suit in basketball and football.
As an outsider it seems like the jumpstart in many of the private schools’ success was bringing in high level coaches who stayed there a while to build the programs. Pauly (not sure when he started at Benilde but wouldn’t be surprised if it was mid-late 90’s when their success started), Trebil, the Vanelli’s, etc attracted good hockey players to their programs and success followed quickly. There may have been other factors, but if the head coaches at those schools were less talented they wouldn’t have the quick and sustained success they’ve enjoyed. Holy Angels’ success dimmed around the time Trebil stepped down, that seems to emphasize that point. Without having to rely on any particular youth programs as a feeder certainly helps the private schools build a successful program more quickly.

Stang5280
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:37 pm

gopherpuck516 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:27 pm
As an outsider it seems like the jumpstart in many of the private schools’ success was bringing in high level coaches who stayed there a while to build the programs. Pauly (not sure when he started at Benilde but wouldn’t be surprised if it was mid-late 90’s when their success started), Trebil, the Vanelli’s, etc attracted good hockey players to their programs and success followed quickly. There may have been other factors, but if the head coaches at those schools were less talented they wouldn’t have the quick and sustained success they’ve enjoyed. Holy Angels’ success dimmed around the time Trebil stepped down, that seems to emphasize that point. Without having to rely on any particular youth programs as a feeder certainly helps the private schools build a successful program more quickly.
Pauly actually started in 1990, FWIW, so he slightly predates that trend, and BSM was up and down during his first several years.

gopherpuck516
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:59 am

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by gopherpuck516 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:45 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:37 pm
gopherpuck516 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:27 pm
As an outsider it seems like the jumpstart in many of the private schools’ success was bringing in high level coaches who stayed there a while to build the programs. Pauly (not sure when he started at Benilde but wouldn’t be surprised if it was mid-late 90’s when their success started), Trebil, the Vanelli’s, etc attracted good hockey players to their programs and success followed quickly. There may have been other factors, but if the head coaches at those schools were less talented they wouldn’t have the quick and sustained success they’ve enjoyed. Holy Angels’ success dimmed around the time Trebil stepped down, that seems to emphasize that point. Without having to rely on any particular youth programs as a feeder certainly helps the private schools build a successful program more quickly.
Pauly actually started in 1990, FWIW, so he slightly predates that trend, and BSM was up and down during his first several years.
Well that answers that question - I had no idea he’s been there that long. Thank you

karl(east)
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:03 pm
Contact:

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by karl(east) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:07 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:37 pm
gopherpuck516 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:27 pm
As an outsider it seems like the jumpstart in many of the private schools’ success was bringing in high level coaches who stayed there a while to build the programs. Pauly (not sure when he started at Benilde but wouldn’t be surprised if it was mid-late 90’s when their success started), Trebil, the Vanelli’s, etc attracted good hockey players to their programs and success followed quickly. There may have been other factors, but if the head coaches at those schools were less talented they wouldn’t have the quick and sustained success they’ve enjoyed. Holy Angels’ success dimmed around the time Trebil stepped down, that seems to emphasize that point. Without having to rely on any particular youth programs as a feeder certainly helps the private schools build a successful program more quickly.
Pauly actually started in 1990, FWIW, so he slightly predates that trend, and BSM was up and down during his first several years.
Fun discussion. There's a section in the book "Blades of Glory" (a sort of Friday Night Lights for MN HS hockey about 2000-2001 Jefferson, for those not in the know) that talks about how the administration at schools like Benilde and Holy Angels started making a conscious investment in sports, and how this rubbed some of the longtime families (some of whose kids were suddenly out of varsity roster spots) the wrong way. It as certainly a revenue-driven decision for many of them.

We brushed on this in the podcast, but I think another factor that made the rise of the non-Hill privates possible was the two-class Tournament. It would've been a lot harder to Benilde and Breck and Duluth Marshall and Rochester Lourdes to become the hockey destinations they are/have at times been if they had to go through a bunch of very deep AA schools to succeed--especially Benilde and Breck in the west metro. In Class A, though, if you can get yourself a Troy Riddle or Jack Connolly and a handful of supporting players, you can make a pretty deep playoff run, and after that, success builds on itself.

The exception to that trend early on was Holy Angels, but that involved a very dynamic individual with deep ties to the strongest feeder system in the state at the type. Noel Rahn tried replicating that at Holy Family in more recent history and had some success, though they never quite got over the hump, and the Fire seem to be sputtering a bit now. And, of course, the drawback to being a high school with no feeder system is that, if you don't have a good "recruiting" class or two, it can go downhill in a hurry, as Holy Angels and now Marshall have shown. Who ever would have guessed, after that 2nd title in 4 years in 2005, that we wouldn't have seen Holy Angels back at state since, or that a couple of years after beating Duluth East and pulling in some high profile talent like the Staubers and Grannis, Marshall would be on life support? Meanwhile, a Greyhound like myself can come to terms with a historically bad season because the youth program is still pulling very solid numbers all the way down.

Sparlimb
Posts: 1782
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:11 am

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Sparlimb » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:51 pm

karl(east) wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:07 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:37 pm
gopherpuck516 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:27 pm
As an outsider it seems like the jumpstart in many of the private schools’ success was bringing in high level coaches who stayed there a while to build the programs. Pauly (not sure when he started at Benilde but wouldn’t be surprised if it was mid-late 90’s when their success started), Trebil, the Vanelli’s, etc attracted good hockey players to their programs and success followed quickly. There may have been other factors, but if the head coaches at those schools were less talented they wouldn’t have the quick and sustained success they’ve enjoyed. Holy Angels’ success dimmed around the time Trebil stepped down, that seems to emphasize that point. Without having to rely on any particular youth programs as a feeder certainly helps the private schools build a successful program more quickly.
Pauly actually started in 1990, FWIW, so he slightly predates that trend, and BSM was up and down during his first several years.
Fun discussion. There's a section in the book "Blades of Glory" (a sort of Friday Night Lights for MN HS hockey about 2000-2001 Jefferson, for those not in the know) that talks about how the administration at schools like Benilde and Holy Angels started making a conscious investment in sports, and how this rubbed some of the longtime families (some of whose kids were suddenly out of varsity roster spots) the wrong way. It as certainly a revenue-driven decision for many of them.

We brushed on this in the podcast, but I think another factor that made the rise of the non-Hill privates possible was the two-class Tournament. It would've been a lot harder to Benilde and Breck and Duluth Marshall and Rochester Lourdes to become the hockey destinations they are/have at times been if they had to go through a bunch of very deep AA schools to succeed--especially Benilde and Breck in the west metro. In Class A, though, if you can get yourself a Troy Riddle or Jack Connolly and a handful of supporting players, you can make a pretty deep playoff run, and after that, success builds on itself.

The exception to that trend early on was Holy Angels, but that involved a very dynamic individual with deep ties to the strongest feeder system in the state at the type. Noel Rahn tried replicating that at Holy Family in more recent history and had some success, though they never quite got over the hump, and the Fire seem to be sputtering a bit now. And, of course, the drawback to being a high school with no feeder system is that, if you don't have a good "recruiting" class or two, it can go downhill in a hurry, as Holy Angels and now Marshall have shown. Who ever would have guessed, after that 2nd title in 4 years in 2005, that we wouldn't have seen Holy Angels back at state since, or that a couple of years after beating Duluth East and pulling in some high profile talent like the Staubers and Grannis, Marshall would be on life support? Meanwhile, a Greyhound like myself can come to terms with a historically bad season because the youth program is still pulling very solid numbers all the way down.

Holy Angels had some of the best teams I've ever seen (maybe not undefeated Jefferson good). I know the coach had a huge impact on them coming on the scene, but the fact it now looks to be flash in the pan is interesting. There's plenty of talent within range to pull from, but they look to be a footnote in history as of now. Benilde has had some really good teams as well, but they always have a tough section to go through. They've been up and down as well but do have a title. CDH seems to be hot and cold as well, but they will always have trouble getting out of Edina's section. Marshall has fallen apart as well. To be honest, I'm not sure why HM is able to sustain it better. They are really the only big hockey private on the east side and they have a history that may matter to some, but they are able to field competitive teams pretty much every year. Not sure what to make of Holy Family. Some good teams but just not enough to compete with the big boys. Anyway, I will listen to the podcast in the morning...

WarmUpTheBus
Posts: 691
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:24 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by WarmUpTheBus » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:06 pm

I don’t remember the year but Holy Angels had the fastest team I have ever seen in the year they lost to Apple Valley in the District semis at Braemer.

WarmUpTheBus
Posts: 691
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:24 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by WarmUpTheBus » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:07 pm

Sparlimb wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:51 pm
karl(east) wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:07 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:37 pm

Pauly actually started in 1990, FWIW, so he slightly predates that trend, and BSM was up and down during his first several years.
Fun discussion. There's a section in the book "Blades of Glory" (a sort of Friday Night Lights for MN HS hockey about 2000-2001 Jefferson, for those not in the know) that talks about how the administration at schools like Benilde and Holy Angels started making a conscious investment in sports, and how this rubbed some of the longtime families (some of whose kids were suddenly out of varsity roster spots) the wrong way. It as certainly a revenue-driven decision for many of them.

We brushed on this in the podcast, but I think another factor that made the rise of the non-Hill privates possible was the two-class Tournament. It would've been a lot harder to Benilde and Breck and Duluth Marshall and Rochester Lourdes to become the hockey destinations they are/have at times been if they had to go through a bunch of very deep AA schools to succeed--especially Benilde and Breck in the west metro. In Class A, though, if you can get yourself a Troy Riddle or Jack Connolly and a handful of supporting players, you can make a pretty deep playoff run, and after that, success builds on itself.

The exception to that trend early on was Holy Angels, but that involved a very dynamic individual with deep ties to the strongest feeder system in the state at the type. Noel Rahn tried replicating that at Holy Family in more recent history and had some success, though they never quite got over the hump, and the Fire seem to be sputtering a bit now. And, of course, the drawback to being a high school with no feeder system is that, if you don't have a good "recruiting" class or two, it can go downhill in a hurry, as Holy Angels and now Marshall have shown. Who ever would have guessed, after that 2nd title in 4 years in 2005, that we wouldn't have seen Holy Angels back at state since, or that a couple of years after beating Duluth East and pulling in some high profile talent like the Staubers and Grannis, Marshall would be on life support? Meanwhile, a Greyhound like myself can come to terms with a historically bad season because the youth program is still pulling very solid numbers all the way down.

Holy Angels had some of the best teams I've ever seen (maybe not undefeated Jefferson good). I know the coach had a huge impact on them coming on the scene, but the fact it now looks to be flash in the pan is interesting. There's plenty of talent within range to pull from, but they look to be a footnote in history as of now. Benilde has had some really good teams as well, but they always have a tough section to go through. They've been up and down as well but do have a title. CDH seems to be hot and cold as well, but they will always have trouble getting out of Edina's section. Marshall has fallen apart as well. To be honest, I'm not sure why HM is able to sustain it better. They are really the only big hockey private on the east side and they have a history that may matter to some, but they are able to field competitive teams pretty much every year. Not sure what to make of Holy Family. Some good teams but just not enough to compete with the big boys. Anyway, I will listen to the podcast in the morning...
I don’t remember the year but Holy Angels had the fastest team I have ever seen in the year they lost to Apple Valley in the District semis at Braemer.

Doc Holliday
Posts: 578
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:20 pm
Location: SW Suburbs

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Doc Holliday » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:08 am

GoldenBear wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:43 am
Doc, try decaf in the morning. At least you didn't read all three and before the last sentence in third one ask yourself..."this sounds familiar". Sucks to get old. GB
HA HA. I screwed up originally & had myself in the quote block, so I edited it to get rid of that, but have no idea what I did to get so many submissions.

I guess I just really wanted my questions to be answered! :D

Stang5280
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by Stang5280 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:50 pm

WarmUpTheBus wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:07 pm
Sparlimb wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:51 pm
Holy Angels had some of the best teams I've ever seen (maybe not undefeated Jefferson good). I know the coach had a huge impact on them coming on the scene, but the fact it now looks to be flash in the pan is interesting. There's plenty of talent within range to pull from, but they look to be a footnote in history as of now. Benilde has had some really good teams as well, but they always have a tough section to go through. They've been up and down as well but do have a title. CDH seems to be hot and cold as well, but they will always have trouble getting out of Edina's section. Marshall has fallen apart as well. To be honest, I'm not sure why HM is able to sustain it better. They are really the only big hockey private on the east side and they have a history that may matter to some, but they are able to field competitive teams pretty much every year. Not sure what to make of Holy Family. Some good teams but just not enough to compete with the big boys. Anyway, I will listen to the podcast in the morning...
I don’t remember the year but Holy Angels had the fastest team I have ever seen in the year they lost to Apple Valley in the District semis at Braemer.
Perhaps apropos of nothing, but I had the chance to see Holy Angels take on Catholic Memorial in January 2010 while I was living in Boston. Not one of AHA’s best teams, but they had the three Reilly brothers and some solid supporting talent. Fun game with lots of back-and-forth action, and CM ultimately prevailed 4-2. Nice crowd for the game, over 2,000 people easily, and the locals were impressed with the Minnesota kids, particularly their skating skills. The trip was not a total loss, as the Stars dismantled Mount St. Charles 9-2 the previous night.

MSC ended the season as Rhode Island champions, and CM was runner-up to a (gasp) public school in the Super 8 (Hingham, I believe). Interestingly, all three programs declined after that season. We all know about Holy Angels, but that was Catholic Memorial’s last appearance in the championship game after dominating the state for the previous few decades. MSC won a few more Rhode Island titles, but was no longer competitive outside the state, and is now attempting the Shattuck hockey magnet model.

O-townClown
Posts: 4040
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: BHS Hockey Podcast - Turning Points

Post by O-townClown » Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:13 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:50 pm
MSC won a few more Rhode Island titles, but was no longer competitive outside the state, and is now attempting the Shattuck hockey magnet model.
Mount St. Charles is off to a good start with that. Brian Boucher is an alumnus of influence and the school is committed. The jumpstarted things by attracting a couple coaches from Selects Academy.

Your comment makes me think an annual event with some New England Prep schools and top Minnesota HS teams would be fun. I know it's been done before and there are some big obstacles. Avon Old Farms, Salisbury, and Kimball Union each season facing traditional powers here like Hill-Murray, Eden Prairie, and Hermantown would serve as a reminder that Minnesota HS hockey remains very good.
Be kind. Rewind.

Post Reply