Role of the Minnesota State High School League

The Latest 400 or so Topics

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Eagles93
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by Eagles93 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:06 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:34 pm
Recruits?

Why all the ire at Eden Prairie only when top programs routinely attract players? Edina, Burnsville, Jefferson, etc.... Wayzata added Clayton Keller's brother and you're upset with Eden Prairie for having kids from Eden Prairie that you don't think should be there? GMAB Not your call.

I think it's cool that HS hockey in Minnesota still attracts players.
Totally agree with OTC here. I've been reading a lot of comments about EP this year and "recruiting" and maybe I don't know the players well enough but Steeves would be the only one that I understood that got people riled up. Best player on the team (Mr. Hockey candidate) moves into the state for his senior year. I thought I read that his parents are originally from MN? So not that crazy, and no different than Hogg or Aitken, to use two recent examples.

Langenbrunner, I guess I don't know if the "closer to the airport" was a legit reason but he obviously did move to EP, whether it was an apartment or the family moved, I don't know.

Blake grew up in EP, right? Just left for SSM for a year then came back - and sat out for it. Doesn't seem like recruiting to me?

Are there other players on EP this year that people think are recruits?
Sponge Puck wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:59 pm
Smith has brought in more then anyone over the last fifteen years.
Can you give examples? I'm legitimately asking as I don't remember hearing recruiting complaints about EP in the past?

O-townClown
Posts: 4044
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by O-townClown » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:25 pm

Eagles93 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:06 pm
Just left for SSM for a year
not even
Be kind. Rewind.

O-townClown
Posts: 4044
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by O-townClown » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:37 pm

FlinFlonBomber wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:18 am
My belief is that the number of transfers is out of control.
What is that number?

Seriously, you are way out past left field here. Are there transfers? Yes. Out of control?

https://legacy.mshsl.org/mshsl/

Go to this website and click on the "Schools" and "Activities" dropdown. MSHSL oversees all of this. How often does someone transfer to Ada-Borup with an interest in being a part of their One Act Play.

My belief is that you lack perspective. I am all for a level playing field, but the "I'm from Duluth" mindset is really missing a great deal. The people that run MSHSL aren't just from Duluth, and they are concerned with creating a healthy environment for the entire spectrum. This includes private schools, rural communities, co-ops, suburban behemoths, and urban programs in sometimes disadvantaged areas.

Duluth's metro population is 280,000 and the sport we are passionate for only has 2 1/2 high school teams anybody cares about. To MSHSL this isn't the tip of the iceberg, but at best a small needle in a giant haystack.

Good luck if you want to fight this battle. To me it seems quixotic. The leaders at member institutions served by MSHSL will continue to work at improving their rules and enforcement. A radical idea like putting a kibosh on activities for anyone open enrolling in a state that led the way isn't likely to float.
Be kind. Rewind.

O-townClown
Posts: 4044
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by O-townClown » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:43 pm

The Exiled One wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:57 am
There really aren’t that many of them in the grand scheme of things.
Exactly. A few more than we hear about probably because it is only a problem when a team enjoys a little success!

I'm all for a level playing field. Since people won't ever agree on what that looks like I see it as a fool's errand to waste a lot of time in this area.
Be kind. Rewind.

karl(east)
Posts: 6262
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by karl(east) » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:14 pm

My only contribution to this conversation will be a general observation about how the Duluth area seems to magnify this issue (if it really is an issue) in a way other places don't. In the Metro, people don't necessarily love it, but there's an understanding that player movement is a pretty common thing. There are also a lot of different places to come from or go to, and they tend to change over time. (Remember when Holy Angels was the top destination? Or even Holy Family just a couple years back? How quickly these things come and go.) A handful of programs like Edina and Hill do stay good year after year, but beyond that, there's a pretty natural churn over time, as I've written about elsewhere. I'd also posit that community loyalty across generations is somewhat rarer among suburbanites, though there are of course exceptions to that.

In most of Greater MN, geography makes a lot of movement impractical, so there isn't a ton of it (though there obviously is some), and loyalty tends to run pretty deep. Due to the numbers game, talent also tends to be more cyclical; even if a Greenway pulls in a few transfers when they have a good core, they aren't going to stay perpetually good because the numbers aren't there. The Duluth area is small enough to get some loyalty, and it's easy to trace movement from one school to another and point fingers, especially when there are couple of programs that do have the numbers to stay consistently good and can reliably be destinations year after year. The divides become clear here in a way they don't anywhere else.

WestMetro
Posts: 3157
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by WestMetro » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:09 pm

The Exiled One wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:57 am
Kids are so desperate to play MSHSL hockey that they’ll rent apartments and change legal guardianships and we see this as a bad thing? I hate that kids break the spirit of the rule if not the letter of it, but if the alternative is making transfers so restrictive that we start driving kids to AAA and juniors, I’ll settle for a bit of rule bending from the handful of kids who have the talent, means, and desire to do so. There really aren’t that many of them in the grand scheme of things.
Well Stated Exiled One

O-townClown
Posts: 4044
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by O-townClown » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:10 pm

karl(east) wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:14 pm
The divides become clear here in a way they don't anywhere else.
Nailed it. As usual, Karl. You see it. Others don't. MSHSL meeting...what are we going to do about the kid that open enrolled into Hermantown? I don't know...we've got Alpine Skiing to discuss and Cross Country and …………
Be kind. Rewind.

HockeyCrazy1970
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:55 pm

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by HockeyCrazy1970 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:11 pm

A major role of MSHSL is to protect the players. This thread is a lot about movement of players and how so many are screaming foul about ambiguous rules which require interpretation and to some have a level of subjectivity and may be hard to prove. The MSHSL if very clear about the cages goalies must wear. I have never seen a year where several of the goalies blatantly wore illegal cages. What ref worth their stripes can't spot the difference in these cages and they must know these are not allowed in high school hockey. They are a distinct advantage to those who cheat (and wear "cheater" cages) and they are unsafe. I was really saddened to see a 12 year old wearing a "cheater" at Braemar (didn't happen to be a Hornet) in February. The young goalies will wear what they see at the X, on the jumbotron, and at their home rink. It was so bad this year the MSHSL might as well just let them go to cat-eyes and ditch the required "dangler" neck protection (which some HS goalies simply just wear so high and tight they aren't protecting them either)...
Pics attached of MN goalies this year. Helen K. can spot the obvious differences...
Legal.jpg
Legal.jpg (41.84 KiB) Viewed 1833 times
Cheater.jpg
Cheater.jpg (32.85 KiB) Viewed 1833 times

defense
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: right here

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by defense » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:23 am

HockeyCrazy1970 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:11 pm
A major role of MSHSL is to protect the players. This thread is a lot about movement of players and how so many are screaming foul about ambiguous rules which require interpretation and to some have a level of subjectivity and may be hard to prove. The MSHSL if very clear about the cages goalies must wear. I have never seen a year where several of the goalies blatantly wore illegal cages. What ref worth their stripes can't spot the difference in these cages and they must know these are not allowed in high school hockey. They are a distinct advantage to those who cheat (and wear "cheater" cages) and they are unsafe. I was really saddened to see a 12 year old wearing a "cheater" at Braemar (didn't happen to be a Hornet) in February. The young goalies will wear what they see at the X, on the jumbotron, and at their home rink. It was so bad this year the MSHSL might as well just let them go to cat-eyes and ditch the required "dangler" neck protection (which some HS goalies simply just wear so high and tight they aren't protecting them either)...
Pics attached of MN goalies this year. Helen K. can spot the obvious differences...
Legal.jpg
Cheater.jpg
You sure mshsl actually has outrulled those? I think mshsl still rules in facemasks.

HockeyCrazy1970
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:55 pm

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by HockeyCrazy1970 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:40 pm

On the 2019-2020 MSHSL Boys hockey page https://legacy.mshsl.org/mshsl/activity ... actnum=410
it has an active link under "Activity Administration:" titled "Goalie Mask Markings" for https://legacy.mshsl.org/mshsl/sports/H ... rkings.doc
from clear back in 2011 which reads in part, "The “H.E.C.C.” initials, manufacturer’s identification, size, and model identification must be visible to referees without removal of the mask or helmet. The “H.E.C.C.” marking shall appear ONLY on HECC Certified products and sanctions will be imposed if any such marking is used on non-certified products. USA Hockey, the National Federation of High Schools, and the National Collegiate Athletic Association will be notified of this marking and referees will be instructed that only masks bearing the marking are HECC Certified goalie masks.

Duluthguy
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:30 pm

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by Duluthguy » Wed May 27, 2020 11:19 am

In case you missed it in yesterday's Star Tribune, an article on the transfer rule:

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-h ... 570753382/

In short, it quotes a legislator who believes the transfer rules should be less stringent than many of us commenting here....

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by Jeffy95 » Wed May 27, 2020 11:58 am

Duluthguy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:19 am
In case you missed it in yesterday's Star Tribune, an article on the transfer rule:

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-h ... 570753382/

In short, it quotes a legislator who believes the transfer rules should be less stringent than many of us commenting here....
I only skimmed it, but it looks this entire article was about repeating grades and remaining eligible, not transferring.

Duluthguy
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:30 pm

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by Duluthguy » Wed May 27, 2020 12:03 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:58 am
Duluthguy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:19 am
In case you missed it in yesterday's Star Tribune, an article on the transfer rule:

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-h ... 570753382/

In short, it quotes a legislator who believes the transfer rules should be less stringent than many of us commenting here....
I only skimmed it, but it looks this entire article was about repeating grades and remaining eligible, not transferring.
The student in the article did transfer, which added to the frustration of their dealings with the League. From the article:

"She missed a great deal of time at school and withdrew from Visitation because she needed a fresh start. She transferred to Mounds Park Academy, a private school in Maplewood located about 16 miles away, for the 2018-19 school year and repeated her junior year.

Because her family did not change its residence, Driano was automatically ruled ineligible for tennis, track and field and speech based on Bylaw 111. She appealed but was denied by the league. She pressed and was granted a hearing before the league’s eligibility committee, which approved her case without explanation."

OldGopherFan
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:22 pm

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by OldGopherFan » Wed May 27, 2020 12:27 pm

Not wanting to drag things away from the transfer topic, but I wanted to talk about the goalie cages. The goalies go to combines and junior camps and see these cages being used. They try them and like the difference it makes. It is very easy to swap out the cage portion of the mask.They choose to leave them on and then have to deal with the chance they may be caught. I was at a HS game this winter where the goalie was caught with one of these cages during warm ups. He was told he could not use the mask. He used the back up goalies mask for the entire first period and then switched back to his in between periods. I had to have someone explain to me what was going on. After that, I was told that he was checked before every game to make sure that he did not put it back on. If you are not a goalie it is really hard to tell the difference on some of these cages. However, it seems that at least some of the refs know what to look for.

Now, back to the transfer rule. I am not a fan of the current setup. It is just too easy to work around. If they just go to a rule that says that you cannot play varsity sports for one year from the date of transfer it will keep things more in check. It will be a hard thing for the kid that has to move for non-hockey reasons but will stop the pretenders. I am not a fan of kids moving all over before they start ninth grade to get into a better hockey situation but I think that is fair that they get to choose their high school. Then they just need to stay there or sit out a year.

goldy313
Posts: 3630
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: Role of the Minnesota State High School League

Post by goldy313 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:45 am

Meh, Eden Prairie hired a wrestling coach (Scott Davis) who was fired from Owatonna for breaking MSHSL rules on recruiting. He used a school computer to do this.

I expected more from AD Mike Grant

Post Reply