Final Cuts

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MadMNhockeyDad
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:49 am

Final Cuts

Post by MadMNhockeyDad » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:16 pm

This is MMnHD's first post, so bear with me...

It's that time of year where there a lot of disgruntled seniors, and the seniors family's.

The politics of MN hockey is second to none.

This post is meant for those on the losing end.

Sure there are many underclassmen who also feel the pain, but at least there is still an opportunity to make the "show" (that being State, and at least the Varsity team).

But those who no longer have that opportunity at the highest level, have a common disregard for those who made these life changing decisions.

There are so many political reasons for these final decisions made by the higher ups, it is hard to know where to start.

But I strongly believe one reason in our little SW village is the almighty dollar. Our coach doesn't allow a kid to take time off in the summer during his STP program (which everyone has)...if you happen to have plans during that time (because you aren't told of when this program is until a week before it starts), and you don't pay the extraordinary amount of money to his LLC, just to watch the coach and assistant coaches BS by the box the whole ice time, while the kids play shinny, you are SOL. This is REASON 1 here in the SW. Better pay the piper!

REASON 2 here is that the coach is simply not honest with his players (or anyone for that matter, from what I have heard the last few years in my neck of the woods). They are told one thing, and the next second it is the total opposite. You can hear how important the player will be to the team next year, and that just goes out the door for probably REASON 1...which is just that the coach is a money hungry deviant.

REASON 3 of course is the friend factor. I get this one more than the last ones, but it is still upsetting to see a kid with less skill make the team because he is buddies with one of the top players.

It's been a couple days now, and MMnHD's kid has plans to play more hockey at a high level (sorry about the third person stuff), and he will actually be playing for an intelligent, positive coach, who has no political interest...so there is that. But most kids are blind-sided, and stuck either playing at a lower level than deserved, or worse yet, not playing the game they love at all.

There is no ill-will here towards the players who didn't get cut, but those coaches who make these whimsical decisions, can meet me behind the band hall...you will easily notice me...I'm the short guy with a complex (because of guys like you).

This is just part one of MMnHD's rant, I will take a break and let you guys digest and tear it apart.

elliott70
Posts: 14185
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

Re: Final Cuts

Post by elliott70 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:56 pm

Good luck to your kid.

InThePipes
Posts: 864
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Final Cuts

Post by InThePipes » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:24 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:56 pm
Good luck to your kid.
Ditto, especially if he's taking a jr hockey route, that's a cut-throat environment X10

Teak
Posts: 1859
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:27 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by Teak » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:42 pm

With so few high school players moving on to the next levels (Jr, D1, Pros), nearly everyone will have to stop playing competitively some time, eh? It might be best to cut your losses now rather than later.

If someone isn't the superstar who would never get cut from any high school squad, then what are their chances at the next levels anyway?

An honest evaluation of oneself is pretty difficult, but essential in life.

:idea:

Yoopskater
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:10 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by Yoopskater » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:07 pm

Totally agree with the last guy. A ‘bubble’ player can’t really complain too much if he gets cut. It is like complaining about losing on a bad call by a ref, don’t leave it up to the ref. Very hard to take the long view when it hits close to home though.

O-townClown
Posts: 4200
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Final Cuts

Post by O-townClown » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:05 pm

Three thoughts pop into my mind.

1 - Ken Pauly said on a podcast last year, we don't go into coaching to disappoint kids. It's the opposite. For those where this is the end of their dream, it's now on to a new dream. (I'm paraphrasing. I think his comment is excellent.)

2 - Another reminder that Curt Giles should be appreciated. He doesn't do it for the money. He's in a community with very challenging parents, often monied and sometimes powerful. He puts the kids first. The reality of cuts is that your decisions aren't popular. He forges ahead, which wouldn't be easy for a lot of people. I'm sure there are other coaches like him. At the 20 year mark I'm sure some parts of the job weigh on a guy.

3 - Communities with respected Junior Gold programs are lucky to have strong leaders that work hard to make that a viable option. In Edina it is Rick Barnes & Bill Smith. I've heard great things about the leaders in Wayzata and Minnetonka. Hockey continues for some kids, and it is a great sport.
Be kind. Rewind.

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:11 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:05 pm
Three thoughts pop into my mind.

1 - Ken Pauly said on a podcast last year, we don't go into coaching to disappoint kids. It's the opposite. For those where this is the end of their dream, it's now on to a new dream. (I'm paraphrasing. I think his comment is excellent.)

2 - Another reminder that Curt Giles should be appreciated. He doesn't do it for the money. He's in a community with very challenging parents, often monied and sometimes powerful. He puts the kids first. The reality of cuts is that your decisions aren't popular. He forges ahead, which wouldn't be easy for a lot of people. I'm sure there are other coaches like him. At the 20 year mark I'm sure some parts of the job weigh on a guy.

3 - Communities with respected Junior Gold programs are lucky to have strong leaders that work hard to make that a viable option. In Edina it is Rick Barnes & Bill Smith. I've heard great things about the leaders in Wayzata and Minnetonka. Hockey continues for some kids, and it is a great sport.
Spot on OTC. While the op describes some troubling behavior of the local coach, there are two sides to every story, and for most human beings telling a kid they can’t follow their dream (in this case play for their high school) is far from a whimsical action. I would guess that 99.9% of MN hs coaches would say it’s by far their least favorite part of the job.

MadMNhockeyDad
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:49 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by MadMNhockeyDad » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:01 pm

Thank you all for your comments, seriously.

I totally understand all of them, and have taken them in.

I believe if this kid wants it, he will get it. It is totally up to him.

Thanks again guys!

Wet Paint
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: Final Cuts

Post by Wet Paint » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:13 am

MadMNhockeyDad wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:01 pm
Thank you all for your comments, seriously.

I totally understand all of them, and have taken them in.

I believe if this kid wants it, he will get it. It is totally up to him.

Thanks again guys!
Been there and done that. Remember that Juniors is a business so you have to be a bit jaded when you are in that world. The owners and the coaches need a certain number of kids on the team to make ends meet. Be aware of that fact and ask lots of questions. JR coaches are the same as high school coaches. They may not out right lie to your face but they are more than willing to leave out certain facts that can and will alter the situation. My kid had a good run through the juniors programs but you have to remember that you are a checkbook to the owners and the coaches. Ask around everybody knows who the programs are that you need to be aware of. He knew when it had turned and left to follow life as opposed to sitting in a place writing checks and trusting the coaches to help them balance their books.

The Exiled One
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by The Exiled One » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:56 pm

Or, just do like I do and live in a district that doesn't have enough players to make cuts! ;) :| :(

yesiplayedhockey
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:29 pm

The biggest thing I've seen over the last several years is the lack of empathy some coaches (and many parents) have shown towards these kids getting cut

For so many kids, it's truly the first time they didn't "make it" High School is stressful enough and to toss this at these young kids sure puts more stress in their lives. I see some coaches simply post the names on a board. Some hand them a note and yes even some kids find out through the good old rumor mill. I challenge every coach to try and stay involved with these kids even after they get cut. Text them monthly to see how they are doing, offer help getting them where they want to go in life (hockey or non hockey). Your goal as a coach/teacher shouldn't end just because the kid doesn't make your team.

Parents as well..You probably hung out with these now cut parents for the past 6-10 years. Don't abandoned that family now. When you see the parents, let them vent. Let them cuss the coaching staff up and down. Trust me, at some point in your life, your kid will be in these same shoes.

We all are busy, focused on our kids and our own lives. But weeks like this past one are a friendly reminder to everyone (yes me included) that it's just a game. Hockey should not define who were are and it definitely shouldn't be the end all

MadMN...Stand tall...This isn't the end. It's simply a bump in the road.

PuckNA
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:20 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by PuckNA » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:31 pm

We all know... "It's a race to men's league... some just get there sooner than others..."

MadMNhockeyDad
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:49 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by MadMNhockeyDad » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:28 am

O-townClown wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:05 pm
Three thoughts pop into my mind.

1 - Ken Pauly said on a podcast last year, we don't go into coaching to disappoint kids. It's the opposite. For those where this is the end of their dream, it's now on to a new dream. (I'm paraphrasing. I think his comment is excellent.)

2 - Another reminder that Curt Giles should be appreciated. He doesn't do it for the money. He's in a community with very challenging parents, often monied and sometimes powerful. He puts the kids first. The reality of cuts is that your decisions aren't popular. He forges ahead, which wouldn't be easy for a lot of people. I'm sure there are other coaches like him. At the 20 year mark I'm sure some parts of the job weigh on a guy.

3 - Communities with respected Junior Gold programs are lucky to have strong leaders that work hard to make that a viable option. In Edina it is Rick Barnes & Bill Smith. I've heard great things about the leaders in Wayzata and Minnetonka. Hockey continues for some kids, and it is a great sport.
FYI, he didn't get cut from Edina

MadMNhockeyDad
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:49 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by MadMNhockeyDad » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:30 am

ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:11 pm
O-townClown wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:05 pm
Three thoughts pop into my mind.

1 - Ken Pauly said on a podcast last year, we don't go into coaching to disappoint kids. It's the opposite. For those where this is the end of their dream, it's now on to a new dream. (I'm paraphrasing. I think his comment is excellent.)

2 - Another reminder that Curt Giles should be appreciated. He doesn't do it for the money. He's in a community with very challenging parents, often monied and sometimes powerful. He puts the kids first. The reality of cuts is that your decisions aren't popular. He forges ahead, which wouldn't be easy for a lot of people. I'm sure there are other coaches like him. At the 20 year mark I'm sure some parts of the job weigh on a guy.

3 - Communities with respected Junior Gold programs are lucky to have strong leaders that work hard to make that a viable option. In Edina it is Rick Barnes & Bill Smith. I've heard great things about the leaders in Wayzata and Minnetonka. Hockey continues for some kids, and it is a great sport.
Spot on OTC. While the op describes some troubling behavior of the local coach, there are two sides to every story, and for most human beings telling a kid they can’t follow their dream (in this case play for their high school) is far from a whimsical action. I would guess that 99.9% of MN hs coaches would say it’s by far their least favorite part of the job.
There are many other troubling traits this coach has, more to come in part 2.

MadMNhockeyDad
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:49 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by MadMNhockeyDad » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:31 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:29 pm
The biggest thing I've seen over the last several years is the lack of empathy some coaches (and many parents) have shown towards these kids getting cut

For so many kids, it's truly the first time they didn't "make it" High School is stressful enough and to toss this at these young kids sure puts more stress in their lives. I see some coaches simply post the names on a board. Some hand them a note and yes even some kids find out through the good old rumor mill. I challenge every coach to try and stay involved with these kids even after they get cut. Text them monthly to see how they are doing, offer help getting them where they want to go in life (hockey or non hockey). Your goal as a coach/teacher shouldn't end just because the kid doesn't make your team.

Parents as well..You probably hung out with these now cut parents for the past 6-10 years. Don't abandoned that family now. When you see the parents, let them vent. Let them cuss the coaching staff up and down. Trust me, at some point in your life, your kid will be in these same shoes.

We all are busy, focused on our kids and our own lives. But weeks like this past one are a friendly reminder to everyone (yes me included) that it's just a game. Hockey should not define who were are and it definitely shouldn't be the end all

MadMN...Stand tall...This isn't the end. It's simply a bump in the road.
Some wise advice, thank you!

O-townClown
Posts: 4200
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Final Cuts

Post by O-townClown » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 pm

MadMNhockeyDad wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:30 am
There are many other troubling traits this coach has, more to come in part 2.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on

Seriously, dude, you ought to consider the high road here. It is the classier option and might be best.

If you want to drive change, by all means don't cowardly choose anonymity on a message board if you want to go Geraldo with investigative journalism.

My two cents.
Be kind. Rewind.

thespellchecker
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 10:42 pm

Re: Final Cuts

Post by thespellchecker » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:20 pm

MadMNhockeyDad wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:30 am
ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:11 pm
O-townClown wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:05 pm
Three thoughts pop into my mind.

1 - Ken Pauly said on a podcast last year, we don't go into coaching to disappoint kids. It's the opposite. For those where this is the end of their dream, it's now on to a new dream. (I'm paraphrasing. I think his comment is excellent.)

2 - Another reminder that Curt Giles should be appreciated. He doesn't do it for the money. He's in a community with very challenging parents, often monied and sometimes powerful. He puts the kids first. The reality of cuts is that your decisions aren't popular. He forges ahead, which wouldn't be easy for a lot of people. I'm sure there are other coaches like him. At the 20 year mark I'm sure some parts of the job weigh on a guy.

3 - Communities with respected Junior Gold programs are lucky to have strong leaders that work hard to make that a viable option. In Edina it is Rick Barnes & Bill Smith. I've heard great things about the leaders in Wayzata and Minnetonka. Hockey continues for some kids, and it is a great sport.
Spot on OTC. While the op describes some troubling behavior of the local coach, there are two sides to every story, and for most human beings telling a kid they can’t follow their dream (in this case play for their high school) is far from a whimsical action. I would guess that 99.9% of MN hs coaches would say it’s by far their least favorite part of the job.
There are many other troubling traits this coach has, more to come in part 2.
Part 2 is the big one.
8-TIME weekly & 2-Time Season Pick Em Champ

MadMNhockeyDad
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:49 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by MadMNhockeyDad » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:06 am

O-townClown wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 pm
MadMNhockeyDad wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:30 am
There are many other troubling traits this coach has, more to come in part 2.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on

Seriously, dude, you ought to consider the high road here. It is the classier option and might be best.

If you want to drive change, by all means don't cowardly choose anonymity on a message board if you want to go Geraldo with investigative journalism.

My two cents.
You bring up some valid opinions O-town...however, you don't know the kind of coach and person this guy is, and has been for years. While going to the higher-ups in the school system may be the route I, and many others in the community take. I believe this is a free country, and I have the right to speak my mind, whether it be anonymously, or front and center.

BodyShots
Posts: 1887
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:44 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by BodyShots » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:45 pm

MadMNhockeyDad wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:06 am
O-townClown wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 pm
MadMNhockeyDad wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:30 am
There are many other troubling traits this coach has, more to come in part 2.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on

Seriously, dude, you ought to consider the high road here. It is the classier option and might be best.

If you want to drive change, by all means don't cowardly choose anonymity on a message board if you want to go Geraldo with investigative journalism.

My two cents.
You bring up some valid opinions O-town...however, you don't know the kind of coach and person this guy is, and has been for years. While going to the higher-ups in the school system may be the route I, and many others in the community take. I believe this is a free country, and I have the right to speak my mind, whether it be anonymously, or front and center.
:-k Pass the popcorn

O-townClown
Posts: 4200
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Re: Final Cuts

Post by O-townClown » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:03 pm

MadMNhockeyDad wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:06 am
I believe this is a free country, and I have the right to speak my mind, whether it be anonymously, or front and center.
Absolutely you do. If you don't care how bad you look as long as you make someone else look bad, have at it.
Be kind. Rewind.

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by Jeffy95 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:18 pm

O-townClown wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:03 pm
MadMNhockeyDad wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:06 am
I believe this is a free country, and I have the right to speak my mind, whether it be anonymously, or front and center.
Absolutely you do. If you don't care how bad you look as long as you make someone else look bad, have at it.
I don’t he think he looks bad and I don’t see how he’s making anyone else look bad since he hasn’t mentioned a name. I want to read Part 2. Bring it out.

“I don’t care what your rank is. Out here, we’re just two as*#oles lost in the woods.”

Christopher Moltisanti

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:09 pm

At what point do we start guessing which “little” SW suburb he’s talking about here, with over the top expensive STP and upset parents/kids who are cut. Might there already be a thread on this very subject?

goldy313
Posts: 3747
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by goldy313 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:02 am

Ken Pauly is an ass. Very few with argue with that.

My daughters basketball team cut every senior last year and went 0-26, is on a 45 game losing streak but cutting every upper classemen will pay dividends down the road somehow they tell us. We cut every senior again We are. 0-2 this year and have been put in running time twice.

I do not think this is an isolated incident.

edgeless2
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: Final Cuts

Post by edgeless2 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:26 am

Some years back, Ken Pauly kicked a budding superstar off his team because he visited a WHL team and missed a team activity! Baer I believe the kid’s name was. Seems like a principled guy to me. And I’m pretty sure original post is not about BSM.

MadMNhockeyDad
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:49 am

Re: Final Cuts

Post by MadMNhockeyDad » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:28 am

InThePipes wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:24 pm
elliott70 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:56 pm
Good luck to your kid.
Ditto, especially if he's taking a jr hockey route, that's a cut-throat environment X10
At least he will know for sure it because of performance, instead of any other factor right?

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