7AA 2019-2020

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TwinCitiesImport
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:45 am
Location: Minneapolis

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by TwinCitiesImport » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:50 am

Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:17 am
Edinahopkins wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:54 am
The purple are going to have to put a win streak together now because it seems QRF doesn’t like the teams they play? They are sitting at the fifth seed right now.
True right? If their QRF score is too low they don't make the playoffs and have a shot at it...……… no wait...………. everybody makes the playoffs so your QRF score is pretty much something the stats geeks can ooze over. Since you have to win your section to move on and if your team is good enough to go you should be able to beat all of the other teams in it, who cares? I know about last change and all of that stuff too from a seeding standpoint. I want to see the QRF modifier that takes all of the high school kid stuff into account. Which one is for sick kids? Which one is for the goalie having a rough night? How about the lazy the winger who takes the night off? If somebody schedules their games with an eye towards their QRF score they are missing the big picture. Set your schedule up to support the local hockey and them to play games to improve your team to give you the best chance to move on. Pretty sure that Greenway's QRF score probably was worse than Hermantown's was last year and yet they moved on.
That's why they play the game! I agree with you on this one for the most part. But the one big thing is home ice advantage in that QF game can be huge. In the end if the team is good enough, they should be alright.
GRHS

Edinahopkins
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:22 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Edinahopkins » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:05 am

wet paint

Yeah that is true but, I would rather have my team in the 2-3 seed if I was cloquet. The 4 and 5 seed is a tough first game, one mistake and you’re season is done in the first round plus if cloquet was the five seed they travel to forest lake on a Tuesday night. Can you win as a four seed yes Grand Rapids did, but it wasn’t ideal in fact the Rapids coach at the time Complained so much we now have this beautiful god awful system we call QRF. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Grand Rapids was the first team in a long time to go to state as the 4 seed in section 7.

Wet Paint
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Wet Paint » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:08 am

TwinCitiesImport wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:50 am
Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:17 am
Edinahopkins wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:54 am
The purple are going to have to put a win streak together now because it seems QRF doesn’t like the teams they play? They are sitting at the fifth seed right now.
True right? If their QRF score is too low they don't make the playoffs and have a shot at it...……… no wait...………. everybody makes the playoffs so your QRF score is pretty much something the stats geeks can ooze over. Since you have to win your section to move on and if your team is good enough to go you should be able to beat all of the other teams in it, who cares? I know about last change and all of that stuff too from a seeding standpoint. I want to see the QRF modifier that takes all of the high school kid stuff into account. Which one is for sick kids? Which one is for the goalie having a rough night? How about the lazy the winger who takes the night off? If somebody schedules their games with an eye towards their QRF score they are missing the big picture. Set your schedule up to support the local hockey and them to play games to improve your team to give you the best chance to move on. Pretty sure that Greenway's QRF score probably was worse than Hermantown's was last year and yet they moved on.
That's why they play the game! I agree with you on this one for the most part. But the one big thing is home ice advantage in that QF game can be huge. In the end if the team is good enough, they should be alright.
I think that is a coaching issue. I get that home ice, last change and etc are all factors but I think that if a coach has done their job it should not matter. If you are good enough to beat Duluth East you should be able to go into the Amsoil and beat them on their home ice no matter which game it is and which change you have. A good coach will have their kids up to speed. A good coach/ad will have those kids in hostile environments and in places playing games that they should lose to temper those kids and to teach them how to function. If a coach says that they can beat East at home but can't go to the Amsoil and beat them because it is their home ice then I am not so sure the coach has done his job. And I know that in theory the Amsoil is not East's home ice but with the amount of time they spend practicing there late in the year I am sure it feels like it is to them. Once again just play the games and get ready for the push at the end of the year.

Wet Paint
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Wet Paint » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:54 am

Edinahopkins wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:05 am
wet paint

Yeah that is true but, I would rather have my team in the 2-3 seed if I was cloquet. The 4 and 5 seed is a tough first game, one mistake and you’re season is done in the first round plus if cloquet was the five seed they travel to forest lake on a Tuesday night. Can you win as a four seed yes Grand Rapids did, but it wasn’t ideal in fact the Rapids coach at the time Complained so much we now have this beautiful god awful system we call QRF. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Grand Rapids was the first team in a long time to go to state as the 4 seed in section 7.
I get it and understand what you are saying but I still think that a good coach will rise above that. Sure, one mistake and you could be done. But I think that if CEC is good enough to go through then they can and will. Travel time on a Tuesday night might be an issue but these kids don't go to bed until after midnight anyhow so I am not so sure. I would rather be a team like Rapids who started off with a tough game and went through than a team like Hermantown who knows without a shadow of a doubt that they are gonna roll through to the title game for the A trophy. Rapids would be working hard all of the time, Hermantown is really set up to be ambushed and knocked off by somebody along the way. Once again it goes back to coaching. I think that QRF is a gimmick and that if a coach is so afraid of what his score will be at the end of the year that he uses it to set up his schedule then he should probably not be coaching because he is focused on the wrong thing.

Edinahopkins
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:22 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Edinahopkins » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:05 pm

I agree of not making you’re schedule easy , that sets your team up for Failure. My point is they need to dump QRF and go back to the way it was are find a better system that plays strength of schedule into affect kinda like college basketball has started doing this year, because it’s not fair to be punished for trying to push you’re team against the best competition.

Wet Paint
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Wet Paint » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:19 pm

Edinahopkins wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:05 pm
I agree of not making you’re schedule easy , that sets your team up for Failure. My point is they need to dump QRF and go back to the way it was are find a better system that plays strength of schedule into affect kinda like college basketball has started doing this year, because it’s not fair to be punished for trying to push you’re team against the best competition.
Exactly. I totally agree with you. My only issue is that I don't see how to factor in the high school kid factor. I can see where college basketball fits. Those kids are serious and are there to play ball above all else. I think that high school boys don't fit that mode all of the time. THey get distracted, they get lazy, they stay out late, break up with a girl friend, get killed on a test and etc. All of those factor into game play at the high school level way more than the college level. I think it has to go back to playing the games and being ready to make a push.

kniven
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Duluth area

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by kniven » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:15 pm

Like I’ve said before, I hope CEC goes back to their pre- Langenbrunner season schedule for boys high school puck. And stay in the Duluth area for a holiday tournament. I’m not really concerned if we could beat the big boys from the metro. Single A, double AA, whatever. QRF is fun to debate during the season. CEC is typically a 4/5 seed and that’s great. We are playing up to AA so this is a reality. We have fun competing, the kids are the best, and Cloquet, Esko, and Carlton is a unique, close knit community. Sure we have our bumps in the road, but we always land on our feet. I’m going to be diehard purple Lumberjack hockey guy no matter. And every so often we do make a push for a 1/2/3seed in sections. And a top 10/20 squad. 👍
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

hockey59
Posts: 1697
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 11:01 am

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by hockey59 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:15 pm

Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:08 am
TwinCitiesImport wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:50 am
Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:17 am


True right? If their QRF score is too low they don't make the playoffs and have a shot at it...……… no wait...………. everybody makes the playoffs so your QRF score is pretty much something the stats geeks can ooze over. Since you have to win your section to move on and if your team is good enough to go you should be able to beat all of the other teams in it, who cares? I know about last change and all of that stuff too from a seeding standpoint. I want to see the QRF modifier that takes all of the high school kid stuff into account. Which one is for sick kids? Which one is for the goalie having a rough night? How about the lazy the winger who takes the night off? If somebody schedules their games with an eye towards their QRF score they are missing the big picture. Set your schedule up to support the local hockey and them to play games to improve your team to give you the best chance to move on. Pretty sure that Greenway's QRF score probably was worse than Hermantown's was last year and yet they moved on.
That's why they play the game! I agree with you on this one for the most part. But the one big thing is home ice advantage in that QF game can be huge. In the end if the team is good enough, they should be alright.
I think that is a coaching issue. I get that home ice, last change and etc are all factors but I think that if a coach has done their job it should not matter. If you are good enough to beat Duluth East you should be able to go into the Amsoil and beat them on their home ice no matter which game it is and which change you have. A good coach will have their kids up to speed. A good coach/ad will have those kids in hostile environments and in places playing games that they should lose to temper those kids and to teach them how to function. If a coach says that they can beat East at home but can't go to the Amsoil and beat them because it is their home ice then I am not so sure the coach has done his job. And I know that in theory the Amsoil is not East's home ice but with the amount of time they spend practicing there late in the year I am sure it feels like it is to them. Once again just play the games and get ready for the push at the end of the year.
Not disagreeing with you about the importance of coaching in the 7AA section playoffs. But that’s also exactly the point of why (not at least every other year) alternating Amsoil with another neutral site like SCSU or Bemidji... is a red flag problem...because why should a Mount Rushmore of MN HS coaching member (Mike Randolph) be granted the clear advantage every single year (of the potential to) play in the Thursday night section final at home (Amsoil) ? There’s no logical way to argue why it isn’t played (at least bi-annually) at a neutral site, just responses relating to dollars & wanting to maintain a home ice advantage by acting like its something else (like the privilege of playing on local TV in Duluth).

north_bear
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:25 pm
Location: G.R.

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by north_bear » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:07 pm

hockey59 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:15 pm
Wet Paint wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:08 am
TwinCitiesImport wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:50 am


That's why they play the game! I agree with you on this one for the most part. But the one big thing is home ice advantage in that QF game can be huge. In the end if the team is good enough, they should be alright.
I think that is a coaching issue. I get that home ice, last change and etc are all factors but I think that if a coach has done their job it should not matter. If you are good enough to beat Duluth East you should be able to go into the Amsoil and beat them on their home ice no matter which game it is and which change you have. A good coach will have their kids up to speed. A good coach/ad will have those kids in hostile environments and in places playing games that they should lose to temper those kids and to teach them how to function. If a coach says that they can beat East at home but can't go to the Amsoil and beat them because it is their home ice then I am not so sure the coach has done his job. And I know that in theory the Amsoil is not East's home ice but with the amount of time they spend practicing there late in the year I am sure it feels like it is to them. Once again just play the games and get ready for the push at the end of the year.
Not disagreeing with you about the importance of coaching in the 7AA section playoffs. But that’s also exactly the point of why (not at least every other year) alternating Amsoil with another neutral site like SCSU or Bemidji... is a red flag problem...because why should a Mount Rushmore of MN HS coaching member (Mike Randolph) be granted the clear advantage every single year (of the potential to) play in the Thursday night section final at home (Amsoil) ? There’s no logical way to argue why it isn’t played (at least bi-annually) at a neutral site, just responses relating to dollars & wanting to maintain a home ice advantage by acting like its something else (like the privilege of playing on local TV in Duluth).
Agree 100%. Amsoil is a great venue but Duluth essentially playing on home ice for semis and finals is bogus. There's other good venues within a reasonable drive to support a neutral site.
Thunderhawk Fanatic!!

Duckguy13
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:59 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Duckguy13 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:13 am

Agreed, Amsoil is home is home for all Duluth. Even Brainard, SCSU, or Chisago holds as lot if they let ppl below, would be more neutral. Heck with all the lodging and rinks, send them to Blaine.

Joe2015
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:50 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Joe2015 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:50 am

Duckguy13 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:13 am
Agreed, Amsoil is home is home for all Duluth. Even Brainard, SCSU, or Chisago holds as lot if they let ppl below, would be more neutral. Heck with all the lodging and rinks, send them to Blaine.
Im sure WDIO in Duluth gets a say too: not officially but we all know money talks. And they pay to televise the Section semi-finals and finals. My guess is they wouldnt be too happy having to send a crew to Blaine or Brainerd instead.

Schotzy
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:36 am

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Schotzy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:34 pm

Joe2015 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:50 am
Im sure WDIO in Duluth gets a say too: not officially but we all know money talks. And they pay to televise the Section semi-finals and finals. My guess is they wouldnt be too happy having to send a crew to Blaine or Brainerd instead.
100% accurate. Not leaving Duluth under any circumstance. Money talks, always will. Everything else is just noise to be ignored.

hockey59
Posts: 1697
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 11:01 am

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by hockey59 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:32 pm

Joe2015 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:50 am
Duckguy13 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:13 am
Agreed, Amsoil is home is home for all Duluth. Even Brainard, SCSU, or Chisago holds as lot if they let ppl below, would be more neutral. Heck with all the lodging and rinks, send them to Blaine.
Im sure WDIO in Duluth gets a say too: not officially but we all know money talks. And they pay to televise the Section semi-finals and finals. My guess is they wouldnt be too happy having to send a crew to Blaine or Brainerd instead.
I’m simply talking about (for the integrity of the 7AA final) at least rotating it to a truly neutral location every other year. ☝️ But I also realize it won’t likely ever hspoen because more factors come into play, plus it’s a built in advantage that DE & Cloquet certainly don’t want to relinquish. But saying WDIO couldn’t send a truck (for one night) to St Cloud or Bemidji, to cover the Final...is total BS
Last edited by hockey59 on Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kniven
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Duluth area

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by kniven » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:36 pm

hockey59 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:32 pm
Joe2015 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:50 am
Duckguy13 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:13 am
Agreed, Amsoil is home is home for all Duluth. Even Brainard, SCSU, or Chisago holds as lot if they let ppl below, would be more neutral. Heck with all the lodging and rinks, send them to Blaine.
Im sure WDIO in Duluth gets a say too: not officially but we all know money talks. And they pay to televise the Section semi-finals and finals. My guess is they wouldnt be too happy having to send a crew to Blaine or Brainerd instead.
I’m simply talking about the integrity of the 7AA final, every other year (rotating it). But I realize it won’t likely ever change because more factors come into play, plus it’s a built in advantage that DE & Cloquet certainly don’t want to relinquish. But saying WDIO couldn’t send a truck (for one night) to St Cloud or Bemidji, to cover the Final...is total BS☝️ :P
Advantage for Cloquet. Interesting cause we don’t matter very often. We’ve never won a playoff game at Amsoil.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

hockey59
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 11:01 am

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by hockey59 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:38 pm

kniven wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:36 pm
hockey59 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:32 pm
Joe2015 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:50 am


Im sure WDIO in Duluth gets a say too: not officially but we all know money talks. And they pay to televise the Section semi-finals and finals. My guess is they wouldnt be too happy having to send a crew to Blaine or Brainerd instead.
I’m simply talking about the integrity of the 7AA final, every other year (rotating it). But I realize it won’t likely ever change because more factors come into play, plus it’s a built in advantage that DE & Cloquet certainly don’t want to relinquish. But saying WDIO couldn’t send a truck (for one night) to St Cloud or Bemidji, to cover the Final...is total BS☝️ :P
Advantage for Cloquet. Interesting cause we don’t matter very often. We’ve never won a playoff game at Amsoil.
WELL...ya did at the DECC :evil: #-o Drove home in a snow storm after that bitter loss...

kniven
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Duluth area

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by kniven » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:42 pm

hockey59 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:38 pm
kniven wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:36 pm
hockey59 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:32 pm


I’m simply talking about the integrity of the 7AA final, every other year (rotating it). But I realize it won’t likely ever change because more factors come into play, plus it’s a built in advantage that DE & Cloquet certainly don’t want to relinquish. But saying WDIO couldn’t send a truck (for one night) to St Cloud or Bemidji, to cover the Final...is total BS☝️ :P
Advantage for Cloquet. Interesting cause we don’t matter very often. We’ve never won a playoff game at Amsoil.
WELL...ya did at the DECC :evil: #-o Drove home in a snow storm after that bitter loss...
Bitter loss for whom?
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

hockey59
Posts: 1697
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 11:01 am

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by hockey59 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:52 pm

kniven wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:42 pm
hockey59 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:38 pm
kniven wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:36 pm


Advantage for Cloquet. Interesting cause we don’t matter very often. We’ve never won a playoff game at Amsoil.
WELL...ya did at the DECC :evil: #-o Drove home in a snow storm after that bitter loss...
Bitter loss for whom?
C’mon kniven...let’s just say the Captain & leading scorer for 2008 Anoka (as the common man on KFAN would refer to it) came from 59’s loins...and leave it at that :wink: But I do realize that game pre-dates you as Lumberjack super fan by one year, which was unfortunate (for U)

kniven
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Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Duluth area

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by kniven » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:15 pm

Duluth East with a 3-1 loss in Forest Lake tonight. Looks like East and CEC with a quarterfinal matchup as a real possibility. With the home team in that game still up in the air. And Forest Lake vs. Elk River the 3-6 matchup.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

Usthockey13
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:52 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Usthockey13 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:24 pm

Cec/Flake next week is for the 3rd seed in my mind

kniven
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Location: Duluth area

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by kniven » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:38 pm

Usthockey13 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:24 pm
Cec/Flake next week is for the 3rd seed in my mind
It looks as though CEC has a more difficult schedule down the stretch. Cloquet could beat Forest Lake and still finish below them.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

Usthockey13
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:52 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by Usthockey13 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:46 pm

True but flake would have to almost win out. If cec wins and ends up below flake but I tie breaker they move ahead of flake. 4 big games left in section play DE/elk- de/cec
Cec/flake and cec/gr

StanleyCup55
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:36 am

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by StanleyCup55 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:48 pm

East will beat Andover in the semis this year

kniven
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Duluth area

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by kniven » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:54 pm

StanleyCup55 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:48 pm
East will beat Andover in the semis this year
I wouldn’t doubt that for a second. East score first and it would be on 🥊
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

karl(east)
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Contact:

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by karl(east) » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:11 am

At this point East should be much more concerned about getting to the semis than winning a semi against a top 5 team. I don't mean to belittle Forest Lake, which is having a relatively good season by its standards and has an impressive goaltender, but anytime you lose to a team you've been playing regularly for 15+ years for the first time, it's an embarrassment.

I didn't see the game so I can't comment on this one specifically, but from an East perspective, it's pretty clear that only a handful of kids are consistent scoring threats. It's probably time to load up one line and shorten the bench somewhat. I support judicious use of traps, but that can't be the only thing on the table; Randolph's teams are at their best when they can flip the switch between that defensive style and a more ambitious attack when they do need goals. (We talk about the 2-3 in 2015, which did win them a couple huge upsets, but they also had a few games where they still went down early and had to go on the offensive to win, and did.) It's hard to win a section scoring one goal a game.

muckandgrinder65
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:06 pm

Re: 7AA 2019-2020

Post by muckandgrinder65 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:21 am

Knee on Knees and smelling salts baby

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