Hibbing 0-25?

[greenwayraider]

It was hard to watch the Hibbing/Greenway game tonight. I really have a lot of sympathy for Hibbing. They have a demanding schedule with the only possible win might be against John Marshall. Their JV roster only listed 10 players. Is there a youth team that shows some promise? I’m hoping this is only a temporary downturn.

[kniven]

It was hard to watch the Hibbing/Greenway game tonight. I really have a lot of sympathy for Hibbing. They have a demanding schedule with the only possible win might be against John Marshall. Their JV roster only listed 10 players. Is there a youth team that shows some promise? I’m hoping this is only a temporary downturn.

When Hibbing was in Cloquet a few weeks ago, I was talking to a parent. Apparently the AD at Hibbing can’t stand boys HS hockey. He did very positive on the future of Hibbing boys high school hockey. Just the opposite with Hibbing HS girls hockey though....the girls seem to be fine. He didn’t say what the problem is with the boys problem though.

[rainier2]

The problem with Hibbing is that their best players all left over the last few years. 3 D1 caliber players and two more who are likely D3 caliber all left because of the previous coach, an NTDP opportunity, or simply the indignity of having to play for a mediocre team once some of the others left. Had they stayed, Hibbing would probably be about as good as Virginia or Eveleth this season.

Hibbing was looking at a tough season, but injuries and suspensions have just made it that much tougher. It is what it is.

I'm not ready to sound any alarm bells about long term struggles of the program. Hibbing is only two years removed from having a top 3 A team who competed in AA as bantams, and their current bantam team is competing just fine against other 7A programs and also tied Cloquet this season. The Pee Wees recently beat Virginia, Eveleth, and I-Falls, so they are also in the 7A mix. There are former D1 players coaching at the youth levels now, and it seems to me there is plenty of optimism growing within the program as a whole.

[greenwayraider]

That’s encouraging news. Hibbing will probably reverse the 7-0 loss in a couple of years then because Greenway’s bantam team is not very good.

[Hessian]

Heard as well the AD treats the program differently than the other programs...why? The word is the youth program is run by “everyone gets a medal” people and girls program parents. Many former players, many with college roots want to coach but are not allowed because of the everyone gets a medal mentality.

[zooomx]

Heard as well the AD treats the program differently than the other programs...why? The word is the youth program is run by “everyone gets a medal” people and girls program parents. Many former players, many with college roots want to coach but are not allowed because of the everyone gets a medal mentality.

Hard to bang on the youth program, when it was a crappy situation with coaching at the high school level that messed up the current high school landscape. I think a lot of parents would have the same complaints about their own youth program. The youth program is for development not chasing state championships (at the youth level). I remember a lot of parent complaints about Alexandria's "everyone gets a medal" mentality all the way up with our current groups of players. "Everyone gets a medal" for many parents is complaining that we don't win at all costs. They complain we roll all 3 lines at all levels. We rotate weaker players into special teams during the season. We play the weaker goalie during the season as much as the stronger goalie. It was very rewarding last year to see Alexandria's program yield a 2nd place state finish for boys and a 3rd place finish for the girls, after hearing from certain parents about how we screw things up at the youth level. Look at Tonka youth program. Read their coaches contract about equal playing time and rolling their lines. Some would argue they have a "everyone gets a medal" mentality and they are just fine.

In the end, winning is a result of strong development at the youth level. You never know who will emerge as great or even solid players at high school, so you develop all the players and build a strong base to your pyramid of talent. On top of that, all families pay the same to play at the youth levels and all those kids deserve to be developed and enjoy this great game of hockey! A "win at all costs" mentality at the youth levels takes away the passion for the game and only develops a small group of players.

Hibbing will be fine. It was a crappy situation and it will take some time to recover. The youth program will send some very nice players to the high school program and hopefully they don't screw it up.

[greenwayraider]

Totally agree with you zoomx. I don’t think it’s about “everybody gets a medal” as it is player development. At the youth level Greenway fields an A and B team. Each team typically has ten players. No depth on either but a lot of playing time. Why have one team and cut players? Small programs do not have the luxury of picking from 40 or more players so they have to make sure everyone who wants to play gets an opportunity. Kids can change a lot from age 10 to age 15.

[MrBoDangles]

Heard as well the AD treats the program differently than the other programs...why? The word is the youth program is run by “everyone gets a medal” people and girls program parents. Many former players, many with college roots want to coach but are not allowed because of the everyone gets a medal mentality.

Hard to bang on the youth program, when it was a crappy situation with coaching at the high school level that messed up the current high school landscape. I think a lot of parents would have the same complaints about their own youth program. The youth program is for development not chasing state championships (at the youth level). I remember a lot of parent complaints about Alexandria's "everyone gets a medal" mentality all the way up with our current groups of players. "Everyone gets a medal" for many parents is complaining that we don't win at all costs. They complain we roll all 3 lines at all levels. We rotate weaker players into special teams during the season. We play the weaker goalie during the season as much as the stronger goalie. It was very rewarding last year to see Alexandria's program yield a 2nd place state finish for boys and a 3rd place finish for the girls, after hearing from certain parents about how we screw things up at the youth level. Look at Tonka youth program. Read their coaches contract about equal playing time and rolling their lines. Some would argue they have a "everyone gets a medal" mentality and they are just fine.

In the end, winning is a result of strong development at the youth level. You never know who will emerge as great or even solid players at high school, so you develop all the players and build a strong base to your pyramid of talent. On top of that, all families pay the same to play at the youth levels and all those kids deserve to be developed and enjoy this great game of hockey! A "win at all costs" mentality at the youth levels takes away the passion for the game and only develops a small group of players.

Hibbing will be fine. It was a crappy situation and it will take some time to recover. The youth program will send some very nice players to the high school program and hopefully they don't screw it up.

[BSUBeaver]

Hard to bang on the youth program, when it was a crappy situation with coaching at the high school level that messed up the current high school landscape. I think a lot of parents would have the same complaints about their own youth program. The youth program is for development not chasing state championships (at the youth level). I remember a lot of parent complaints about Alexandria's "everyone gets a medal" mentality all the way up with our current groups of players. "Everyone gets a medal" for many parents is complaining that we don't win at all costs. They complain we roll all 3 lines at all levels. We rotate weaker players into special teams during the season. We play the weaker goalie during the season as much as the stronger goalie. It was very rewarding last year to see Alexandria's program yield a 2nd place state finish for boys and a 3rd place finish for the girls, after hearing from certain parents about how we screw things up at the youth level. Look at Tonka youth program. Read their coaches contract about equal playing time and rolling their lines. Some would argue they have a "everyone gets a medal" mentality and they are just fine.

In the end, winning is a result of strong development at the youth level. You never know who will emerge as great or even solid players at high school, so you develop all the players and build a strong base to your pyramid of talent. On top of that, all families pay the same to play at the youth levels and all those kids deserve to be developed and enjoy this great game of hockey! A "win at all costs" mentality at the youth levels takes away the passion for the game and only develops a small group of players.

Hibbing will be fine. It was a crappy situation and it will take some time to recover. The youth program will send some very nice players to the high school program and hopefully they don't screw it up.

Great post zoomx! I have only been involved in the Alex Program for four years now and only have a kid in mites, but I really enjoy watching the practices and the effort the coaches put in with every one of the kids out there. I have stuck around for some of the games after the kiddo's practice, and it is nice to see everyone get a chance to get out there in every situation.

As greenwayraider said, a kid can change a lot between 10 and 15. Just look at the college ranks, how many kids were passed over at 17 or 18 and didn't have an offer from a school, but end up being a late bloomer, comes out of juniors at 19 or 20 and is a major contributor to their team? It happens.

[Orty]

I like everything zoomx's post except the comparison between 'Tonka and Hibbing. That's where you lost me. It's a numbers thing.

Some metro teams cut the number of players entire northern teams have that go out for hockey. That depth (and I'll assume talent) is why they can roll 3 lines all the time, play the "less talented" goalie and rotate "less talented" players into special teams.

I hope Hibbing doesn't go 0-25, rebounds and makes a run at state in the future.

That Guy

[zooomx]

I like everything zoomx's post except the comparison between 'Tonka and Hibbing. That's where you lost me. It's a numbers thing.

Some metro teams cut the number of players entire northern teams have that go out for hockey. That depth (and I'll assume talent) is why they can roll 3 lines all the time, play the "less talented" goalie and rotate "less talented" players into special teams.

I hope Hibbing doesn't go 0-25, rebounds and makes a run at state in the future.

That Guy

Definitely not comparing the programs. Tonka (from snooping on their website years ago) has/had a specific directive to roll their lines at the youth level in their coaches contract. From what I have heard and seen they are not "win at all costs" at the youth level. I have always admired that. I was just pulling them as an example that you can do it right at the youth level and have success at high school.

[rainier2]

Heard as well the AD treats the program differently than the other programs...why? The word is the youth program is run by “everyone gets a medal” people and girls program parents. Many former players, many with college roots want to coach but are not allowed because of the everyone gets a medal mentality.

Hard to bang on the youth program, when it was a crappy situation with coaching at the high school level that messed up the current high school landscape. I think a lot of parents would have the same complaints about their own youth program. The youth program is for development not chasing state championships (at the youth level). I remember a lot of parent complaints about Alexandria's "everyone gets a medal" mentality all the way up with our current groups of players. "Everyone gets a medal" for many parents is complaining that we don't win at all costs. They complain we roll all 3 lines at all levels. We rotate weaker players into special teams during the season. We play the weaker goalie during the season as much as the stronger goalie. It was very rewarding last year to see Alexandria's program yield a 2nd place state finish for boys and a 3rd place finish for the girls, after hearing from certain parents about how we screw things up at the youth level. Look at Tonka youth program. Read their coaches contract about equal playing time and rolling their lines. Some would argue they have a "everyone gets a medal" mentality and they are just fine.

In the end, winning is a result of strong development at the youth level. You never know who will emerge as great or even solid players at high school, so you develop all the players and build a strong base to your pyramid of talent. On top of that, all families pay the same to play at the youth levels and all those kids deserve to be developed and enjoy this great game of hockey! A "win at all costs" mentality at the youth levels takes away the passion for the game and only develops a small group of players.

Hibbing will be fine. It was a crappy situation and it will take some time to recover. The youth program will send some very nice players to the high school program and hopefully they don't screw it up.

Fantastic post, zoomx.

I agree that the youth program is not to blame for any down years for the Hibbing HS program. All the top talent that left did so after they were at least Pee Wees, so these kids developed in the Hibbing youth program. And if it's the girls program parents that are running the show, well, that is a great thing, given how strong the girls program in Hibbing is and continues to be. And if the rumors that the AD "hates" boys hockey are true, then somebody needs to show the Superintendent the gate receipts from the home games vs Greenway and GR a few years ago that drew 3000+ fans. That might cause him to have a serious talk with his AD. There is revenue to be made from Iron Range HS hockey games.

I'm also not a fan of "every one gets a medal", but I am a huge fan of "keep the base as big as possible" a la Herb Brooks, a strategy that works out pretty darn well for Duluth East. That's why I'm glad to see Hibbing have four squirt teams that play each other quite a bit, along with playing teams from other programs. I don't see a need to have an "A" squirt team travel all over the state and have the "good" players already set in stone when they are only 10 years old. Keep as many kids interested and having fun for as long as possible. Maybe that Pee Wee B kid won't end up becoming a D1 star, but they may very well grow into that solid 3rd defenseman or dependable 3rd line center that can make a huge difference for a Class A team.

[Hessian]

Very Good discussion of bluejackets hockey. I have two boys in the program.i played for Gotz, Decenzo and Vers all excellent coaches. I watched Goter and Vers coach the last good group to come through. The current coach is but a shadow of what they were committed to. Shea Walters was run out by the youth program and the AD. Gotz and Vers were great guys and great coaches. They worked and coached together until a business dispute. The program under both was undeniable producing. I’m sure a few will argue that, but that’s the track record until Johnsonabd AD potter took over. I’m sure few will disagree but the program and community gets it

[goldy313]

Hibbing loses to Rochester Mayo 5-2 tonight. Mayo lost a heart breaker last night to Century in overtime and has a game with Duluth Marshall tomorrow. Mayo might have been ripe for the picking as they say. But the Spartans put their skates on and came out to play.

An early afternoon start for Hibbing with John Marshall who just gave Northfield a pretty good game yesterday.

[rainier2]

Very Good discussion of bluejackets hockey. I have two boys in the program.i played for Gotz, Decenzo and Vers all excellent coaches. I watched Goter and Vers coach the last good group to come through. The current coach is but a shadow of what they were committed to. Shea Walters was run out by the youth program and the AD. Gotz and Vers were great guys and great coaches. They worked and coached together until a business dispute. The program under both was undeniable producing. I’m sure a few will argue that, but that’s the track record until Johnsonabd AD potter took over. I’m sure few will disagree but the program and community gets it

I was also disappointed that Walters didn't end up at least somewhere on the HS staff. But I can't really go along with any defense of Versich. There were lots of rumors of disgraceful behavior surrounding him, then school district hires an investigator, and he ultimately resigns. I can't say what was/wasn't true, but I don't think an innocent person would have resigned.

For me it's hard to judge if Tomberlin is a good coach or not, given the exodus of top talent before he arrived. He made befuddling decisions repeatedly with his goaltenders his first year, which wasn't good. Given that Hibbing will be down for a couple years, I wonder if he'll even last long enough to get another wave of talent come through.

I haven't heard anything good about the AD either, but given that Johnson was the superintendent at Hermantown before he came to Hibbing a couple years ago, I'd be shocked if he didn't realize the value of having a strong hockey program in northern MN.

Either way, brighter days are ahead, and if there is a silver lining to this season, it's that a bunch of kids who probably never thought they'd get a chance to play varsity hockey are now logging solid minutes in every game.

[goldy313]

John Marshall 5
Hibbing 3

It was 5-0 at one point, 5-1 with less than 2 minutes to go.

I think Lee has them ranked about where they should be, which is sad for such a proud program.

[goldy313]

I get what you are saying...

If the mines reopen things will change over the course of a decade......of course the Minnesota legislature is beholden to the progressives in the metro who really could care less about the Iron Range because they might vacation there once and people with good jobs might affect their experience in nature.

F’in millennials

[SouthMN]

I get what you are saying...

If the mines reopen things will change over the course of a decade......of course the Minnesota legislature is beholden to the progressives in the metro who really could care less about the Iron Range because they might vacation there once and people with good jobs might affect their experience in nature.

F’in millennials

I can’t tell, is this a serious post in a hockey forum?

[northwoods oldtimer]

I get what you are saying...

If the mines reopen things will change over the course of a decade......of course the Minnesota legislature is beholden to the progressives in the metro who really could care less about the Iron Range because they might vacation there once and people with good jobs might affect their experience in nature.

F’in millennials

100% correct!!

[grindiangrad-80]

Hang in there Raider. While I'm not a huge Greenway fan I am a fan of good hockey. This green team will be ready to go at the end of the year. Their schedule will prepare them for that. They certainly have enough talent for that. Not often you will get props from a fan to your west but this year is an exception. I am pulling for you.

[elliott70]

I get what you are saying...

If the mines reopen things will change over the course of a decade......of course the Minnesota legislature is beholden to the progressives in the metro who really could care less about the Iron Range because they might vacation there once and people with good jobs might affect their experience in nature.

F’in millennials

I can’t tell, is this a serious post in a hockey forum?

Yes, economics and demographics play into the hockey community. Look at IFalls as well as most range teams, Minneapolis and St. Paul schools, Bloomington, Richfield.
Not that the politics belong here, but there is some truth regarding outside influence.

[SouthMN]

Yes, larger cities will have a larger pool of players, however I’m not buying the whole political bias shtick on a hockey forum website. If the industry in your town has dyed out, find a new industry, but to whine about a political bias and a generation of people on a hockey forum seems odd. Also blaming Millenials for things is way overplayed, find a new slant other than blaming younger people or else just stop watching high school hockey and start watching YouTube videos of the good ole days of hockey in the 70’s

[Hessian]

Sitting at the GR v Hibbing Game tonight. Almost did a back flip when I heard Hibbing has 3 kids that Played Bantam A’s within the last year who decided not to play. Ms potter and Coach Tomberlin never once approached them to come out and play. This is A hockey, come on Potter and Tomberlin, really!!!

[greenwayraider]

Hibbing is 2-2 in its last four games. Wins against Eveleth-Gilbert and North Shore a 1-0 loss to Thief River and Warroad put them in running time 7-0. They could be a very dangerous QF opponent. As long as it isn’t Hermantown of course.

[rainier2]

Hibbing is 2-2 in its last four games. Wins against Eveleth-Gilbert and North Shore a 1-0 loss to Thief River and Warroad put them in running time 7-0. They could be a very dangerous QF opponent. As long as it isn’t Hermantown of course.

Since getting some players back, they have been much improved. They played Virginia and TRF to one goal games recently, and beat E-G, so if any 7A team other than Hermantown takes them lightly in a QF game, they may be in for a scare.