Class A Preseason Rankings

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

I can't speak for Warroad and TRF, but, even though EGF had a slightly higher than .500 record last year, they did play a pretty tough Class A schedule including 2 wins over Alexandria, a very close loss to Orono, and a strong win over SCC.
They play Orono, Delano, Totino Grace, and SCC early this year, so that may tell a lot about this year's team.
Last year, early in the season, they also lost a top player in Landon Parker that did not help.
If he is back this year, (I am not sure, because he was on the North elite team, played 1 game, and was out again with an injury), then EGF should be a pretty strong class A team.
Also, they had a strong Bantam team last year, that may contribute.

We will see.

I'm expecting EGF to take the section title this year over Warroad (if there are no "new" players there). But then I did last year too. I thought they completely outplayed TRF in the title game last year, but their goalie stole the game and EGF's goalie was off.

[Stang5280]

Thanks Stang5280 for taking the time to put this together. You can take over for HSHockeyWatcher.

De nada. I may be willing to do weekly ranking posts, though I can’t promise it will be as consistent or detailed as Karl’s work. Unfortunately I am unable to watch many games due to my location and health issues, so my insights beyond box scores are limited. Having a starting point for discussion would be nice, though, given the heavier AA focus on the board. December 2 would be the earliest starting point, after we have some results to work with.

(FYI, the rankings above were done completely on my own without referencing other sources, though it seems like most everyone agrees on the teams near the top, if not the exact order.)

[Stang5280]

Section 2
1. Orono lost top 5 scorers and goalie. Good news is everyone else lost a lot also. But have 3 big D men coming back to build off. Zack Simon and Zack Adams should lead them back to the X
2. Breck should be the leading competition.
3 tie - Mound-Westonka, Delano, Minneapolis - they all lost a lot.
Waconia should be a dark horse that could surprise any or some of the 5 above them.

I am not a boys hockey mind but didn't Providence pound Breck last year? Unless they added a bunch I dont see a big difference between Breck and Providence and the field beyond Orono.

I am sure I did not pay enough attention to Providence.
Procidence has 3 good scorers returning, no D and a decent goalie, little D returning.

Breck lost 8 or 9 seniors and the balance was very young.
I would leave them where they are but add Providence to the mix of those at #3.

Not that it totally explains away a 7-1 rout, but Breck’s top scorer (also their top D man) was out for that game and most of January due to injury. Breck had some really bad results during the first few games he was out of the lineup. Of course, they also had a disastrous end to the regular season with everyone healthy.

As Elliott stated (and I have mentioned in other threads), Breck graduated many of their top players, and there will be plenty of playing time for underclassmen. The team will likely be less talented, but the schedule is more forgiving and the record will look better. If I had to rank Breck, I would put them in the 20-25 range to start the year, with potential to move up depending on player development.

[zooomx]

Section 6
Two team race and Sartell as a dark horse.
1. St Cloud Cathedral lost 3 good players but returns top 3 scoreres and 3 of 4 Dmen and strong goalie.
2. Alexandria returns top 3 scorers and top 2 Dmen and a good back-up goalie. And success breeds success.
3. Sartell returns a very good goalies, good Dmen and 3 of the top 10 scorer

Are you forgetting that Alex graduated Jack Powell, THE SINGLE GREATEST DEFENSEMAN IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND (at least according to the state tournament announcers)?!

That bit of snark aside, thanks to Elliott for the detailed sectional breakdown, which was my next order of business today before you beat me to the punch.

Also, as many have pointed out, I totally missed the boat on Mankato East. I pretty much blocked Section 1 out of my mind when doing the rankings, but in retrospect they belong in that 10-15 range. If Northfield wasn’t stupidly moved out of that section it would be an interesting race.

Yeah, Powell did get an unusual amount of man-love from Mr. Parrish, but he did have a really good game against THE SINGLE GREATEST "a" TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND (at least according to everyone on this forum). All snark aside, Alexandria returns just about everyone. They should have a really solid year, and it will be a dogfight in 6A once again this year.

[muckandgrinder65]

TT-
are both Avery boys on roster for EGF now?
They were very good at the youth level down in 763 land

[TTpuckster]

TT-
are both Avery boys on roster for EGF now?
They were very good at the youth level down in 763 land

Cole is on the roster.
I do not think his brother is.

[USA218]

8a will be weak again, with the title between EGF or Warroad.

Why pick on 8A? It will be in the better half of A sections. Last year they ended with 3 teams in the top 15 (Pagestat) and TRF went 2-1 at the state tournament. EGF brings in a nice crop of young players from bantams and I believe this group of Warroad kids had a runner up in youth hockey. If you want to say class A will be down as a whole I may go for that, but singling out 8A as weak I don't think is appropriate.

lol, "pick"? I live in the area so it's the section that interests me the most. It really is that simple. Since you brought up last year, as I've said before, last year the top three teams in the section were each barely above .500 on the year.
That is a very weak section any way you want to spin it, and it won't be much different this year. Regarding egf and Warroad, I know, hence my comment that those two will be in the title game.
But neither will be anything great. Unless Warroad pulls a Warroad before the season starts.

Something to keep in mind with many top 8A schools and their ".500 records": Their strength of schedule is very strong. Many play GF Central (who have lost one game the past two years), GF Red River, Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau. I believe EGF plays all those schools 2x/year. You may knock ND High School hockey, but those Grand Forks schools are as good as many of the AA schools in the metro. Record is only a good indicator when looking at strength of schedule.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Why pick on 8A? It will be in the better half of A sections. Last year they ended with 3 teams in the top 15 (Pagestat) and TRF went 2-1 at the state tournament. EGF brings in a nice crop of young players from bantams and I believe this group of Warroad kids had a runner up in youth hockey. If you want to say class A will be down as a whole I may go for that, but singling out 8A as weak I don't think is appropriate.

lol, "pick"? I live in the area so it's the section that interests me the most. It really is that simple. Since you brought up last year, as I've said before, last year the top three teams in the section were each barely above .500 on the year.
That is a very weak section any way you want to spin it, and it won't be much different this year. Regarding egf and Warroad, I know, hence my comment that those two will be in the title game.
But neither will be anything great. Unless Warroad pulls a Warroad before the season starts.

Something to keep in mind with many top 8A schools and their ".500 records": Their strength of schedule is very strong. Many play GF Central (who have lost one game the past two years), GF Red River, Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau. I believe EGF plays all those schools 2x/year. You may knock ND High School hockey, but those Grand Forks schools are as good as many of the AA schools in the metro. Record is only a good indicator when looking at strength of schedule.

Many of the losses by all three teams were not to good teams. And we'll have to disagree with equating GF schools as good as AA metros.

[jackstraw]

Haven't posted in years, couldn't resist. Do you know anything about some of those ND teams? Ignorance is bliss.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Haven't posted in years, couldn't resist. Do you know anything about some of those ND teams? Ignorance is bliss.

Who are you replying to ?

[7TIMECHAMPS]

I wouldn’t waste your energy. You are talking to a person that doesn’t understand the concept of SOS or even results. A win against Minnetonka is equal to a win against Ely (sorry to pick on you Ely) in their mind.

Just as a note on the GF teams for anyone that isn’t aware of the players coming out of there go look at the aviators ranking against MN teams the last two years. Right at the top. Loads of D1 players. I know a couple left early from Red River this year but lots of talent there last year a plenty still remaining.

[Schotzy]

Just as a note on the GF teams for anyone that isn’t aware of the players coming out of there go look at the aviators ranking against MN teams the last two years. Right at the top. Loads of D1 players. I know a couple left early from Red River this year but lots of talent there last year a plenty still remaining.

Cole Spicer. The only Grand Forks name you need to know. Freshman. Amazing skill and control.

[USA218]

Looking at EGF regular season schedule from last year:
Losses to Orono, Delano, Roseau, Warroad, GF Central, GF RR, Moorhead, Greenway, Bemidji & Crookston

Outside of Crox, which of those losses would you consider weak teams? Bemidji was no powerhouse, but not bad either.

Also, decent read for HS hockey fans:
http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/ ... art-season

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Looking at EGF regular season schedule from last year:
Losses to Orono, Delano, Roseau, Warroad, GF Central, GF RR, Moorhead, Greenway, Bemidji & Crookston

Outside of Crox, which of those losses would you consider weak teams? Bemidji was no powerhouse, but not bad either.

Also, decent read for HS hockey fans:
http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/ ... art-season

Who are you replying to ?

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

I wouldn’t waste your energy. You are talking to a person that doesn’t understand the concept of SOS or even results. A win against Minnetonka is equal to a win against Ely (sorry to pick on you Ely) in their mind.

Just as a note on the GF teams for anyone that isn’t aware of the players coming out of there go look at the aviators ranking against MN teams the last two years. Right at the top. Loads of D1 players. I know a couple left early from Red River this year but lots of talent there last year a plenty still remaining.

I understand SOS just fine, thank you. Apparently you don't though, as you consider some of them as tough. But hey, everyone gets a medal ! <same mindset>

p.s. I thought you were done with said discussion ?

[muckandgrinder65]

Dusty Bergstrom- top 75 MN Boys HS 18/19
Go Dragons

[7TIMECHAMPS]

I wouldn’t waste your energy. You are talking to a person that doesn’t understand the concept of SOS or even results. A win against Minnetonka is equal to a win against Ely (sorry to pick on you Ely) in their mind.

Just as a note on the GF teams for anyone that isn’t aware of the players coming out of there go look at the aviators ranking against MN teams the last two years. Right at the top. Loads of D1 players. I know a couple left early from Red River this year but lots of talent there last year a plenty still remaining.

I understand SOS just fine, thank you. Apparently you don't though, as you consider some of them as tough. But hey, everyone gets a medal ! <same mindset>

p.s. I thought you were done with said discussion ?

Yeah yeah sometimes it’s hard to just ignore such blatant gaps in logic. Your argument all along has been .500 is .500 no matter who you play. I tried to point out that 8A had 3 top 13 teams using a subjective rating system that does factor SOS (Pagestat). You said that was just fancy spin or something along those lines and that you watch so much hockey that you know more than anyone else does. I believe you even said you don’t need results to prove a team is good? As if there is anything else (except for the NHL scout of course).

And to the comment about me thinking some of the opponents are tough. They are relative to other A schedules. Idk if you are comparing them to AA or what? No this isn’t section 7AA or 2AA. You have to compare them to other A teams and other A sections. That is what both poll rankings and computerized rankings do. And they all disagree with what you say. You don’t have anything to back your argument other than I’m smarter than everyone. It’s absurd. Read your posts.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

I wouldn’t waste your energy. You are talking to a person that doesn’t understand the concept of SOS or even results. A win against Minnetonka is equal to a win against Ely (sorry to pick on you Ely) in their mind.

Just as a note on the GF teams for anyone that isn’t aware of the players coming out of there go look at the aviators ranking against MN teams the last two years. Right at the top. Loads of D1 players. I know a couple left early from Red River this year but lots of talent there last year a plenty still remaining.

I understand SOS just fine, thank you. Apparently you don't though, as you consider some of them as tough. But hey, everyone gets a medal ! <same mindset>

p.s. I thought you were done with said discussion ?

Yeah yeah sometimes it’s hard to just ignore such blatant gaps in logic. Your argument all along has been .500 is .500 no matter who you play. I tried to point out that 8A had 3 top 13 teams using a subjective rating system that does factor SOS (Pagestat). You said that was just fancy spin or something along those lines and that you watch so much hockey that you know more than anyone else does. I believe you even said you don’t need results to prove a team is good? As if there is anything else (except for the NHL scout of course).

And to the comment about me thinking some of the opponents are tough. They are relative to other A schedules. Idk if you are comparing them to AA or what? No this isn’t section 7AA or 2AA. You have to compare them to other A teams and other A sections. That is what both poll rankings and computerized rankings do. And they all disagree with what you say. You don’t have anything to back your argument other than I’m smarter than everyone. It’s absurd. Read your posts.

There you go putting words in my mouth again, and you're still not very good at it. I never said "....you watch so much hockey that you know more than anyone else does".
I also never said "...you don’t need results to prove a team is good?" There's more.
But you're right about one thing; there are blatant gaps in logic. Yours.

[WestMetro]

YHH rankings as follows

1 Greenway 7
2 St. Cloud Cathedral 6
3 Hermantown 7
4 Mahtomedi 4
5 Alexandria 6
6 Warroad 8
7 Sartell 6
8 East Grand Forks 8
9 Monticello 5
10 Mankato East

[Section 8 guy]

Looks like I’m going to have to say it again......and just so there’s no questions.....this is replying to you ZamboniExhausrInhler. Do you have anything of value to add to the site Or are you just bored because your mom took away your X box?

My god......how much Zamboni Exhaust did you inhale?

[7TIMECHAMPS]

lol, "pick"? I live in the area so it's the section that interests me the most. It really is that simple. Since you brought up last year, as I've said before, last year the top three teams in the section were each barely above .500 on the year.
That is a very weak section any way you want to spin it, and it won't be much different this year. Regarding egf and Warroad, I know, hence my comment that those two will be in the title game.
But neither will be anything great. Unless Warroad pulls a Warroad before the season starts.

Just taking records without the context of the schedule is a poor way to judge teams. If we did that LOW would be the best team from 8A last year with a record of 16-5-3. Using a rating system like Pagestat (while not perfect) that does take this into account is far superior. Using Pagestat 8A had 3 of the top 13 teams in the final ranking. This is a higher representation than average (23% 8A compared to 12.5% average). Their representative at state last year (TRF) lost a one goal game with Alex (runner up) and then won their last two games by a combined score of 8-1. Hardly a poor showing. I realize there isn't an 03-05 Warroad or 14-15 EGF in the mix, but this is still a better than average section. I'm not even a fan of any of the teams. I am just familiar with the area and age group and characterizing 8A as weak compared to other A sections is just incorrect.

I DON’T NEED RESULTS or some computer program or any other spin you come up with. I SEE TEAMS ACTUALLY PLAY. Novel idea, eh ? Every year. For many years. Good enough for you ? Barely over .500 is barely over .500. Period.
TRF goalie last year stole many games for them, including the sections, including at state. He's gone. For starters.

You also need to stop putting words in my mouth, as you're not very good at it. I said 8a will be weak again. It will be.

Read your post. Explain to me how you meant anything different than what I said. Maybe you just don’t understand what you say? I am not sure. I will summarize again what you said which is that you don’t need results or computerized rankings because you have watched the teams and have a better understanding than the results or rankings would suggest. Which of course is ludacris.

Why don’t you explain the gaps in my logic? All you do is say that I put words in your mouth and turn what I said back to me. It’s like arguing with a little kid.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Why pick on 8A? It will be in the better half of A sections. Last year they ended with 3 teams in the top 15 (Pagestat) and TRF went 2-1 at the state tournament. EGF brings in a nice crop of young players from bantams and I believe this group of Warroad kids had a runner up in youth hockey. If you want to say class A will be down as a whole I may go for that, but singling out 8A as weak I don't think is appropriate.

lol, "pick"? I live in the area so it's the section that interests me the most. It really is that simple. Since you brought up last year, as I've said before, last year the top three teams in the section were each barely above .500 on the year.
That is a very weak section any way you want to spin it, and it won't be much different this year. Regarding egf and Warroad, I know, hence my comment that those two will be in the title game.
But neither will be anything great. Unless Warroad pulls a Warroad before the season starts.

TRF was 18-11-2 last year, hardly what would qualify as "barely above .500"

Lee

I meant the regular seasons, seeing as two of the three didn't have the same amount of games.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Just taking records without the context of the schedule is a poor way to judge teams. If we did that LOW would be the best team from 8A last year with a record of 16-5-3. Using a rating system like Pagestat (while not perfect) that does take this into account is far superior. Using Pagestat 8A had 3 of the top 13 teams in the final ranking. This is a higher representation than average (23% 8A compared to 12.5% average). Their representative at state last year (TRF) lost a one goal game with Alex (runner up) and then won their last two games by a combined score of 8-1. Hardly a poor showing. I realize there isn't an 03-05 Warroad or 14-15 EGF in the mix, but this is still a better than average section. I'm not even a fan of any of the teams. I am just familiar with the area and age group and characterizing 8A as weak compared to other A sections is just incorrect.

I DON’T NEED RESULTS or some computer program or any other spin you come up with. I SEE TEAMS ACTUALLY PLAY. Novel idea, eh ? Every year. For many years. Good enough for you ? Barely over .500 is barely over .500. Period.
TRF goalie last year stole many games for them, including the sections, including at state. He's gone. For starters.

You also need to stop putting words in my mouth, as you're not very good at it. I said 8a will be weak again. It will be.

Read your post. Explain to me how you meant anything different than what I said. Maybe you just don’t understand what you say? I am not sure. I will summarize again what you said which is that you don’t need results or computerized rankings because you have watched the teams and have a better understanding than the results or rankings would suggest. Which of course is ludacris.

Why don’t you explain the gaps in my logic? All you do is say that I put words in your mouth and turn what I said back to me. It’s like arguing with a little kid.

Thanks for proving my point.

I said "I see the teams actually play." I did not say ...."watch so much hockey that you know more than anyone else does."

I said " I don't need results" which was actually agreeing with your LOW reference and nothing to do with your point above, but you're to obtuse to notice that. You said ..."don’t need results to prove a team is good?"

Adding your words onto my statement both times. It's called putting words in my mouth. And again I agree with you about something ! It is like arguing with a little kid, but don't be so hard on yourself.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Looks like I’m going to have to say it again......and just so there’s no questions.....this is replying to you ZamboniExhausrInhler. Do you have anything of value to add to the site Or are you just bored because your mom took away your X box?

My god......how much Zamboni Exhaust did you inhale?

Thank you for clearing it up; the quote feature of the site works fine btw. I have plenty of value to add to the site. Of course, if your definition of value is only agreeing with your or anyone else's opinion all the time, which seems to be the case, who knows.

Btw, never owned any gaming items ever.

[7TIMECHAMPS]

I DON’T NEED RESULTS or some computer program or any other spin you come up with. I SEE TEAMS ACTUALLY PLAY. Novel idea, eh ? Every year. For many years. Good enough for you ? Barely over .500 is barely over .500. Period.
TRF goalie last year stole many games for them, including the sections, including at state. He's gone. For starters.

You also need to stop putting words in my mouth, as you're not very good at it. I said 8a will be weak again. It will be.

Read your post. Explain to me how you meant anything different than what I said. Maybe you just don’t understand what you say? I am not sure. I will summarize again what you said which is that you don’t need results or computerized rankings because you have watched the teams and have a better understanding than the results or rankings would suggest. Which of course is ludacris.

Why don’t you explain the gaps in my logic? All you do is say that I put words in your mouth and turn what I said back to me. It’s like arguing with a little kid.

Thanks for proving my point.

I said "I see the teams actually play." I did not say ...."watch so much hockey that you know more than anyone else does."

I said " I don't need results" which was actually agreeing with your LOW reference and nothing to do with your point above, but you're to obtuse to notice that. You said ..."don’t need results to prove a team is good?"

Adding your words onto my statement both times. It's called putting words in my mouth. And again I agree with you about something ! It is like arguing with a little kid, but don't be so hard on yourself.

Good grief

So why don’t you explain the point you were trying to make when you said “I see teams actually play. Novel idea, eh? Every year. For many years.” To me it sounds like you are saying that your analysis is more accurate than results or computerized rankings. And I added the “watch so much hockey” piece because I though that was the point you were making with the “every year. For many years” If not trying to point out that you watch a lot of hockey what point were you making by saying that? Is there any other way to interpret this statement as a whole?

My LOW reference was making the point that having a good record (16-5) or a record “barely over .500” doesn’t necessarily prove anything. You need the SOS context. You said “.500 is .500. Period” I say that is not logical.

Im sorry just any way you spin the “I don’t need results comment” doesn’t make sense. Results are what it is all about. Period.