The Hermantown Thread

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HockeyStorm
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by HockeyStorm » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:22 pm

What a post Ranier2, so true and funny! As long as their current AD is there I never them moving up, I don't believe the coach has any say in the matter. Everyone outside of the 55811 knows what a joke it is that they still play A but until they win 10 state tournaments in a row they are right "where they belong".

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:13 pm

Thanks for once again Hermantown for a destroying class A hockey by taking Galatz! A Hockey dead!

I am feeling very confident there won’t be a season and guys like Pierce and Galatz can move on with their hockey careers without winning in 2020. I know they have a million options to choose from in 2020. But to not have to watch them “play for their hometown” would be sweet!
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

RA2026
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by RA2026 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:59 pm

Hermantown has gained a goalie at the bantam level. Another transfer away from Hibbing.

WestMetro
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by WestMetro » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:03 pm

Been a while since I looked at the hermantown thread , I’ll just say Esterbrooks sure looked good today!

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:19 am

RA2026 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:59 pm
Hermantown has gained a goalie at the bantam level. Another transfer away from Hibbing.
There is a very talented goalie a year ahead of him at Hibbing, so he likely wouldn't have been a HS starter until senior year, if that. I wish the kid all the best at Hermantown.

StanleyCup55
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Ok Hermantown....

Post by StanleyCup55 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:28 am

Hermantown 5 - Duluth East 1
Hermantown 5 - Grand Rapids 3

You’re the best team in the north yet you play single A hockey.

No further questions your honor

elliott70
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Re: Ok Hermantown....

Post by elliott70 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:50 am

Warroad and East Grand Forks the best teams in northern MN but play single A.

MNHockeyFan
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Re: Ok Hermantown....

Post by MNHockeyFan » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:20 pm

StanleyCup55 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:28 am
Hermantown 5 - Duluth East 1
Hermantown 5 - Grand Rapids 3

You’re the best team in the north yet you play single A hockey.
Makes it much easier to hang a banner that way.

rainier2
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Re: Ok Hermantown....

Post by rainier2 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:30 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:50 am
Warroad and East Grand Forks the best teams in northern MN but play single A.


But no team in 8AA is in top 20.

GR is #3 in AA. Andover is #11.

I don't think these Hermantown players have ever lost to a 7AA team the last couple years of youth hockey, yet here we are, watching the Hermantown players get hosed out of a AA title run again. Totally insane. #-o

elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:12 pm

There is no question based on quality Hermantown is AA material.
But EGF and Warroad are capable of competing with most of AA.
You have the HUGE metro teams that are always on the top that year in and year out are hard to play with but between the other 'northern' teams EGF and Warroad are very capable of making a run at going to state.

But 8AA with Roseau, Warroad, EGF, Bemidji, Moorhead, Brainerd St Cloud and pick another one perhaps Alexandria - you have a quality north section.
Not going to happen unless forced upon them by the MSHSL.
Same for Hermantown.
They have a quality youth program that generates quality high school teams. Like a lot of other programs they get a player from elsewhere.

But it is what makes the single A more attractive for those not living in the metro area.
In AA of the last 20 teams in the finals only 5 have been non-metro and 3 of those were DEAST - disliked as much or more than Edina.
That leaves 2 - thank goodness for Grand Rapids and Moorhead.

In single A there have been 14. Four times both have been outstate teams. Thank goodness for Hermantown (and East Grand Forks).

Yes, they are good enough to compete at AA every year (since 2010) but until MSHSL figures out how to put the top teams in AA (or some other upper level) it will continue.

EGF has had a lock (with TRF thrown in) for the last 10 years. And now it either Warroad or EGF for the next 5 or 6 years.
Mahtomedi ahs been the team in section 4 for the last 6 years. Gentry will challenge this year but they look to be moving up and giving he section back to Maht.

In section 1 it belonged to Lourdes until their demographics changed and with teams moving to AA there it looks to belong to Mankato for some time (Dodge County could be the exception this year).

It is the nature of the beast - those with larger, better run youth programs will rule. Smaller programs will challenge when they have that firt line D1 talent come through once a decade or more.

All the whining here will be good only with a platter of cheese.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:33 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:12 pm
There is no question based on quality Hermantown is AA material.
But EGF and Warroad are capable of competing with most of AA.
You have the HUGE metro teams that are always on the top that year in and year out are hard to play with but between the other 'northern' teams EGF and Warroad are very capable of making a run at going to state.

Agreed. That's why it is strange to me that an EGF or Warroad, who already have multiple A titles, wouldn't look at the 8AA landscape and say "We're at least as good as any team in 8AA, so why don't we make a run for the AA tourney!"

But 8AA with Roseau, Warroad, EGF, Bemidji, Moorhead, Brainerd St Cloud and pick another one perhaps Alexandria - you have a quality north section.
Not going to happen unless forced upon them by the MSHSL.
Same for Hermantown.
They have a quality youth program that generates quality high school teams. Like a lot of other programs they get a player from elsewhere.

"a player from elsewhere"? Here's the list of Hawks that open enrolled/transferred in the last 9 years: Skrbich, Kramer, Aamodt, Samberg, Judnick, Watkins, Gotz, Gotz, Pierce, Kilen, Antcliff, Lund, etc. The "quality youth program" and "quality high school teams" would look very, very different without this insane amount of incoming talent. I've said it before and I'll say it again, at least half of the high-end talent that plays for Hermantown were known to be good players before they ever put on a Hawk jersey for the first time. It was NOT the "quality youth program" that made them great players.

But it is what makes the single A more attractive for those not living in the metro area.
In AA of the last 20 teams in the finals only 5 have been non-metro and 3 of those were DEAST - disliked as much or more than Edina.
That leaves 2 - thank goodness for Grand Rapids and Moorhead.

And Hermantown would be at least as good, if not better, than all those northern teams you just mentioned.

In single A there have been 14. Four times both have been outstate teams. Thank goodness for Hermantown (and East Grand Forks).

Yes, they are good enough to compete at AA every year (since 2010) but until MSHSL figures out how to put the top teams in AA (or some other upper level) it will continue.

EGF has had a lock (with TRF thrown in) for the last 10 years. And now it either Warroad or EGF for the next 5 or 6 years.
Mahtomedi ahs been the team in section 4 for the last 6 years. Gentry will challenge this year but they look to be moving up and giving he section back to Maht.

In section 1 it belonged to Lourdes until their demographics changed and with teams moving to AA there it looks to belong to Mankato for some time (Dodge County could be the exception this year).

It is the nature of the beast - those with larger, better run youth programs will rule. Smaller programs will challenge when they have that firt line D1 talent come through once a decade or more.

Fair enough. But don't you think a team that competes well with the best in AA at youth levels, already has a mountain of A hardware, and annually beats the eventual AA champ is screwing their players by staying in A?

All the whining here will be good only with a platter of cheese.

If that's true, then Bruce Plante must have eaten all the cheese in Wisconsin. :D

elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:14 pm

Bruce was/is a great cheese eater.

As they say, 'those that live in glass houses should not eat cheddar.'

Wise Old Man
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Re: Ok Hermantown....

Post by Wise Old Man » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:41 am

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:50 am
Warroad and East Grand Forks the best teams in northern MN but play single A.
Elliott, not sure of your intent but, if you're really stating those teams are better than Hermantown, then I have a large bridge to sell you because you're flat out incorrect.

TTpuckster
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by TTpuckster » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:42 am

I was wondering when somebody would bite on that one Elliott. You gonna set the hook? :lol: :lol:
What is a Green Wave anyway?

elliott70
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by elliott70 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:00 am

TTpuckster wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:42 am
I was wondering when somebody would bite on that one Elliott. You gonna set the hook? :lol: :lol:
Too small, just shook it off and let it go.

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:04 am

Regarding the open enroll/transfer comment, nobody can argue they have not benefitted more than most. I would though like to point out that Aamodt and Samberg I don’t believe ever played or went to school anywhere other than Hermantown. Ones father played football and the other basketball. I can assure you their being involved in the Hermantown community had nothing to do with the hockey program which was nowhere near the elite level it is now when they started there. Their being included in this group is off base. Watkins came from Colorado. I can also assure you they did not pick up and leave there for the sole purpose of the hockey program. You make valid arguements on the other names. Let’s not forget though theses names. Levi Stauber, carter Sullivan, billy grillo. All nice players who left the program to go elsewhere.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:49 pm

Getitright wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:04 am
Regarding the open enroll/transfer comment, nobody can argue they have not benefitted more than most. I would though like to point out that Aamodt and Samberg I don’t believe ever played or went to school anywhere other than Hermantown. Ones father played football and the other basketball. I can assure you their being involved in the Hermantown community had nothing to do with the hockey program which was nowhere near the elite level it is now when they started there. Their being included in this group is off base. Watkins came from Colorado. I can also assure you they did not pick up and leave there for the sole purpose of the hockey program. You make valid arguements on the other names. Let’s not forget though theses names. Levi Stauber, carter Sullivan, billy grillo. All nice players who left the program to go elsewhere.
You are correct that Aamodt and Samberg never played anywhere other than Hermantown, but my point is that they are open-enrollees, who lived in a different school district, and thus supports the fact that a major percentage of Hermantown's success is due to open enrollment AND transfers.

The delusion that Hermantown supporters love to spread is that their program takes a tiny small-town enrollment and turns it into a team of D1 studs, and therefore any other small town team can do the same, and if you can't, your program sucks. This is simply false. Conveniently, Hermantown supporters never mention that they usually get the best players from Proctor (Skrbich, Aamodt, Samberg, Judnick, Antcliff, etc.). Why do they leave this out? Probably the same reason they don't mention that it was Bruce Plante who was the loudest, most-public "It's unfair! Move to AA!" whiner.

If you are getting all the best players from a neighboring school district, then you have effectively added their enrollment to your own. When you add Proctor and Hermantown together, you get 1100, a number that is much less impressive than "we only have 600 kids, yet we are still awesome every year!" A number, coincidentally, that is damn close to being an official AA school. Take an enrollment that's almost AA, and then fortify that with a bunch of transfer studs, and even fewer people would be impressed that they are having lots of success in Class A.

It's a carefully sculpted public image Hermantown takes pains to portray, and they get real quiet when the truth is laid out for all to see. I see it over and over again. They don't want to talk about rampant open enrollment and transfers, they don't want to talk about Bruce Plante whining, they don't want to talk about documented recruiting problems at the youth levels, they don't want to talk about the "AA at youth, then A at high school" mystery, they don't want to talk about program pillar Scott Pionk speaking at a school board meeting and saying that what Hermantown is doing in Class A is "scholastic bullying", they don't want to talk about "crappy Range programs" like Greenway and Hibbing having several top 2-top 5 Class A teams the last few years, or that Hibbing has produced as many NHL-caliber players as Hermantown has the last 7 years. There is no end to what Hermantown fans don't want to talk about.

As far as those players you mentioned who transferred out of Hermantown, one Stauber was good, the other was okay, Sullivan was below average, and if I remember correctly, Grillo went to Denfeld because he couldn't even get third line minutes with the Hawks. Not exactly a talent hemorrhage, especially when those players get replaced by transfers who are significantly better.

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:28 pm

Not going to get into an argument with you. Agree with much of what you say. Scott is a good friend of mine and very knowledgeable about hockey but not sure who anointed him the pillar. There is a vast amount of knowledge in that community. Heaping everyone in your pile about what you think everyone there believes is not fair IMO. Many like I wish they would go aa. My basic point was the twig and pike lake kids signed up in about 2003-2004. Those moves had 0 to do with hockey and claiming they did is just plain wrong. That was my point.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:18 pm

Getitright wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:28 pm
Not going to get into an argument with you. Agree with much of what you say. Scott is a good friend of mine and very knowledgeable about hockey but not sure who anointed him the pillar. There is a vast amount of knowledge in that community. Heaping everyone in your pile about what you think everyone there believes is not fair IMO. Many like I wish they would go aa. My basic point was the twig and pike lake kids signed up in about 2003-2004. Those moves had 0 to do with hockey and claiming they did is just plain wrong. That was my point.
I never said they open enrolled from the Proctor school district because of hockey, I simply stated they were open enrollees, which is 100% true.

And I'm not heaping all Hermantown fans into a pile; I know there are people like you, Scott, and even one of my best friends-who has kids in the Hermantown program-that all think they should go AA. Unfortunately you guys are the quiet minority, and not the loud majority who see nothing wrong with what's going on there and like to bash other Class A programs. My comments are directed at those fools, not you.

My apologies, but I do get a bit of chuckle having a Hermantown fan tell someone they're not being "fair". 8)

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:58 pm

Rainer 2. We agree more than disagree. I just wonder why many of the better proctor kids choose to leave? What can they do to keep them home that maybe they haven’t been doing?

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:56 pm

Getitright wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:58 pm
Rainer 2. We agree more than disagree. I just wonder why many of the better proctor kids choose to leave? What can they do to keep them home that maybe they haven’t been doing?
How can Proctor also find a way to leverage being part of the Duluth metro area into an easy road to the Class A tourney every year? I have a couple of suggestions on how to start:

1. Implant all youth players' brains with a microchip, so when someone from Hermantown tries to recruit them, the Proctor Association's Emergency Retention Response Team can spring into action and prevent a defection.

2. Intercept and read all mail that comes to Proctor youth players' homes, so when they receive a "You're the type of player that we would welcome at Hermantown Hockey" letter in the mail, it can be destroyed.

3. Have filters set on all the youth players' social media accounts so that when a Hermantown-based "Our program is awesome, we do it with an enrollment of only 600, and you don't so your program sucks" message is received, the player then automatically receives a list of all the high-end transfers and open-enrollees that Hermantown has had, so the player can see that a good chunk of the top talent at Hermantown were already good players before they ever put on a Hermantown jersey for the first time, thus placing the "our program is awesome" claim in the proper perspective .

4. Hire Bruce Plante as coach, who will then turn his "they get kids from everywhere!" tirade against Hermantown, which will finally shame the Hawks to AA.

:D

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm

I put that out there in hopes of some real dialogue as I why a player may be do interested in leaving the community. Based on that response, doesn’t seem to me there is any interest in really trying to deal with the issue.

rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:40 pm

Getitright wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm
I put that out there in hopes of some real dialogue as I why a player may be do interested in leaving the community. Based on that response, doesn’t seem to me there is any interest in really trying to deal with the issue.
I guess I have as much interest in improving Proctor hockey as you do in spreading the word around the Hermantown program that they should move up to AA, as you claim you support. :roll:

If you want to start a "How to improve the Proctor hockey program?" thread, go for it.

Wise Old Man
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Wise Old Man » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:41 am

Getitright wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm
I put that out there in hopes of some real dialogue as I why a player may be do interested in leaving the community. Based on that response, doesn’t seem to me there is any interest in really trying to deal with the issue.
The reason they choose to leave Proctor (or Denfeld, or East, or Hibbing, or Virginia, or Colorado....) is — for the umpteenth thousandth time — because they have a guaranteed trip to state almost every freaking year....

Getitright
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Getitright » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:58 am

I thought one of the big reasons why they get to state is due to the help of the outsiders? So, if this is the case how did they get to this point? I think it’s a good question. I wish kids would stay put as well. I really do. I wish htown would go aa. I really do. Maybe in the long run the new rink helps proctor. Let’s hope so. I also think if they go aa the movement there will not stop and the state trips no longer guaranteed. Pionk thinks they would get more kids. There’s more to it than than the state thing. I wish I could put a finger on it and stop it if they keep deciding aa is where they want to be.

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