The Hermantown Thread

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rainier2
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by rainier2 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:04 pm

defense wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:53 pm
Just a few years ago the popular opinion on this board was that youth hockey and high school hockey are different and what happens in youth hockey doesnt mean much in high school. What changed??? Ot did the members here just turnover?
In metro areas where constant transferring and open enrolling are commonplace the link isn't as strong, but in community teams HS-to-youth results have a much more linear relationship.

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:08 pm

kniven wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:03 pm
defense wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:53 pm
Just a few years ago the popular opinion on this board was that youth hockey and high school hockey are different and what happens in youth hockey doesnt mean much in high school. What changed??? Ot did the members here just turnover?

Yes. Very true. Cloquet PeeweeAA and BantamAA were in state tournament 3-4 years in a row 5-6 years ago and didn’t do anything in high school.
CEC’s system is broken on the boys side. For our future, we need to start over. Youth teams max at A teams and high school drop down to A. If something is broke, you don’t keep doing the same thing over and over hoping it will change. You start over.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

defense
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by defense » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:42 pm

rainier2 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:04 pm
defense wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:53 pm
Just a few years ago the popular opinion on this board was that youth hockey and high school hockey are different and what happens in youth hockey doesnt mean much in high school. What changed??? Ot did the members here just turnover?
In metro areas where constant transferring and open enrolling are commonplace the link isn't as strong, but in community teams HS-to-youth results have a much more linear relationship.
I am fully aware of this. These were people talking Bemidji, EGF, Warroad...section 8..
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northwoods oldtimer
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:51 pm

rainier2 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:34 am
northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:28 am
ShakestheClown wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:54 pm
The east range schools are the definition of what class A hockey is supposed to be about. They are comprised of smaller schools, who put together an once-in-a-decade team that has the chance to make a good run to state at the class A level. GR is exactly where they are supposed to be. They can make a pretty serious run once or twice a decade at AA. CEC had a similar chance that never panned out within the past few years as well.

Hermantown can make a run for the class A championship EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. That is not an accurate reflection of the intent of class A hockey. It is a program taking advantage of a loophole to chase trophies.
This man knows what he is talking about!! The fans of Hermantown, back pedaling hockey coach and AD bootlickers defending the trophy chasing can stuff it where the sun don't shine!!
[-o< [-o< [-o<

BTW Hibbing does need to fix their hockey program problems even the alumni from those great youth teams of the 90's early 2000's will admit that. Come in Hibbing you can do it!
With all due respect, oldtimer, the idea that Hibbing needs to "fix" their program is inaccurate, and just further highlights how Hermantown has skewed expectations for Class A teams. Improve? Yes, for sure, but "fix" implies there is some long-term, systemic problem, which I totally disagree with.

Just a few years ago, Hibbing had a top three team in Class A, and the year after, they were top ten. The three years since then, yes, the team has swooned, but it's because a couple top forwards and the goalie left, not because no good players were coming up through the ranks. Had those players stayed, Hibbing would have been in the mix for the #3 seed, with a shot at #2. Take the top two skaters and goalie off any Class A team not located in a metro area and see what that does to the team's record. Even Hermantown would take a big step back if you took away Biondi, Pierce, and their best goalie.

So Hibbing has had a bad couple years, after a coach left because of off-ice issues, something we've seen in GR and CEC recently, and because some top players left, something we've seen in CEC, GR, and even Duluth East for god's sake; these things aren't unique to Hibbing. And, very soon, things will improve greatly. Here are a few examples of how they are improving, and as you read it, keep in mind that Hibbing has the 59th largest enrollment in Class A.

Bantams: Won VFW consolation title last year despite a top player being injured, won the district tournament this year despite top goalie being injured, ranked in top ten of bantam A teams that will actually play Class A once in HS, lost one goal games to #1 Warroad and #3 Tartan, went 9-3 against 7A teams, including going 3-2 vs #5 Virginia and #7 Denfeld.

Pee Wees: Won district tournament, came within one goal of being in regional tournament final, ranked #11 of pee wee A teams that will actually play Class A once in HS, went 12-5-1 vs 7A teams.

Squirts and below: Had four squirt teams this year, two of which are ranked in top five of teams that will actually play Class A someday, had a #2 ranked squirt team last year, and overall numbers at these levels are very high.

Are these mind-boggling, going-to-state-every-year results? No, but...THEY SHOULDN'T BE! To Shakes' point, the Class A teams that are not filled with transfers and open enrollees have great classes come through every once in a while and they make a run, like Hibbing in 16-17, or Greenway last year, or the TRF, LF, Luverne, etc. community teams we've seen compete well at state. Even Warroad, as good of a program as there is, who has the #1 seed in the tourney this year, DIDN'T GO TO STATE FOR A DECADE!

What Hermantown has done by sandbagging it's way to state every year is that they have created this hallucinogenic environment where it's not okay to have a down couple of years. No longer is it accepted that teams will have up and down cycles in talent, now it just means your program sucks, and any top players still there better transfer to Hermantown, or CEC, or someplace else with reportedly greener grass to make sure those players' NHL careers aren't derailed by having to play for the #4 seed in 7A. It's complete and utter madness, and with Range kids now going to Hermantown for their senior year to "get noticed", it's reaching full-blown, marbles-lost, truly-gone-fishing insanity.

I've heard the current Hibbing coach resigned, which, if true, is a good thing, because even with the talent exodus their record should have been better. I'm hoping the AD gets it right and hires a Clafton-like coach who will bring energy and dedication to his coaching duties. That said, Hibbing could hire a cyborg downloaded with the combined hockey knowledge of Herb Brooks, Scotty Bowman, and Scott Sandelin, but their 59th largest enrollment in Class A still isn't going to keep up every year with a program that collects talent from 150,000 person metro area and beyond. A team or two per decade? Sure, but NOT EVERY YEAR!

When Scott Perunovich steps on the ice for the St. Louis Blues this spring, he will be the second player from Hibbing to play in an NHL game this year, with both of those players graduating within the last seven years. How many other programs in MN can say this? Ten D1 players have come out of Hibbing over the last decade, plus some D3 players, and because a few of them have left recently because it's no longer acceptable to play for a 4 or 5 seed, that means the program needs to be "fixed"? You'll have to excuse me for thinking the problem just might be in the social media-warped minds of parents and players.

The true irony of players leaving Hibbing and people saying they need to fix their program is this: The two Hibbing players who made it to the freaking NHL didn't find it necessary to transfer to "better" HS programs in order to become world-class players. Adam Johnson stayed through his senior year, and Perunovich had every intention of coming back for his senior year, but Hibbing didn't offer online classes to allow him to do a USHL before-and-after.

Hermantown is killing 7A hockey. Scott Pionk knows it, Lou Nanne knows it, and 99% of HS hockey fans know it.
rainier2 I am a little familiar with some of the old Hibbing teams and agree with the success from years past. The Perunovich era was awesome team just unfortunate all them kids were same graduating year of talent. Bad choice of word fix agree with improve. But in same note I doubt today's parents could put up with Davey lol high demands for hockey excellence. He's helluva coach and I think the program really misses having him around but like all programs time moves on and losses of great coaches happens.

Glad to hear all of the good news on the youth programs OUTSTANDING to hear about that!

You an I are in total agreement on a certain 218 team, no doubt about that.

norcon
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by norcon » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:05 pm

Edinahopkins wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:49 pm
I could care less about the enrollment. All that matters is how many kids are currently Playing in your program the range schools including Grand Rapids are the same. both field a A team of some kind and a B team. So what’s your excuse now.
Exactly!

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:11 pm

I love the fact that the metro brain trust can’t figure out and beat north’s Hermantown Hawks. It’s great to see the metro money, and power, and influence bowing down to Hermantown every year. Its pretty awesome!!!
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Bonin2121
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Bonin2121 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:47 pm

Spirit of single A hockey: Provide a state tournament for those schools that would never have a chance to make the AA tournament.

No one is impressed by Hermantown single A titles except their parents.

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:59 pm

REST IN PEACE CLASS A Hockey.

The death of many because of one. 13 championship games in 15 years. Hermantown champions of class A. For next ten years. Congratulations Andrews and Clark!
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:00 pm

Bonin2121 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:47 pm
Spirit of single A hockey: Provide a state tournament for those schools that would never have a chance to make the AA tournament.

No one is impressed by Hermantown single A titles except their parents.
I disagree. The entire state totally respects Hermantown ‘s power. The AA blue blood s schedule and bow to them every year during the regular season. Kids flock to play their youth and high school hockey there. And the Cake Metro A power programs tremble at just the thought of beating Hermantown in a game that matters. Hermantown isn’t going anywhere. So instead of complaining them out, all the people that fear them will just have to beat them out. Duluth East and Hermantown and Grand Rapids and Moorhead and Roseau and Warroad rule 👍
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:01 pm

Nice epilogue! Can you speak tgat at the funeral.

Taking a list of great epilogues.
Last edited by Hunters1993 on Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:11 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:01 pm
Nice epilogue! Can you speak tgat at the funeral.
I can, and do, see both sides. It’s going to be what it’s going to be. Cloquet, Esko, and Carlton don’t have things easy either.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:16 pm

Very nice, glad to hear your sufferings my friend
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kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:19 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:16 pm
Very nice, glad to hear your sufferings my friend
👍. Awesome. We will be fine.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:46 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:59 pm
REST IN PEACE CLASS A Hockey.

The death of many because of one. 13 championship games in 15 years. Hermantown champions of class A. For next ten years. Congratulations Back Pedaling "Coach" Andrews and Clark!
Fixed it for ya =D> =D>

defense
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by defense » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:20 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:59 pm
REST IN PEACE CLASS A Hockey.

The death of many because of one. 13 championship games in 15 years. Hermantown champions of class A. For next ten years. Congratulations Andrews and Clark!
First time championship game appearance for class A school tomorrow... just saying.
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:23 pm

Yes and their first appearance will not be something they are going to enjoy. Hermantown 13 out of 16 championship games. Just saying.
#KEEPTHEKIDSINTHECLASSROOM

defense
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by defense » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:26 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:23 pm
Yes and their first appearance will not be something they are going to enjoy. Hermantown 13 out of 16 championship games. Just saying.
How many wins???
First time champion last year
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:27 pm

Also had a thought. Do you think a coach who takes over a hockey program like Hermantown really has any say in anything todo with the program.

I had a conspiracy theory

Do you think everyone involved with Hermantown hockey really wants to stay in class A? They all put Andrews as coach and told him to hold the flag for staying in class A and all the parents get to look the victim and Andrews gets to take all the heat! The program thrives and enjoys their success and Andrews gets to stand at the firing line. Thoughts on that one,
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:30 pm

defense wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:26 pm
Hunters1993 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:23 pm
Yes and their first appearance will not be something they are going to enjoy. Hermantown 13 out of 16 championship games. Just saying.
How many wins???
First time champion last year
Listen very carefully 13.13.13. Let that soak in. 13. So in the last 15 years Herm(Ely,Denfeld,Virginia, Denfeld)antown has been either the 1st or 2nd best team. Let that sink in. Time to take the next step!
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defense
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by defense » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:33 pm

Simple question.

Was 13 your hs number btw??
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Hunters1993
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by Hunters1993 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:36 pm

13,13. So if you make 17 out of 20 championship games, win the next four championships. Will that be adequate to make the move? If you won the c-chip 10 out of 13 years would you then be ok with moving up?
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defense
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by defense » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:37 pm

I'm counting like 10 times in the championship starting in 1998... is my records wrong?
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kniven
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by kniven » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:39 pm

Hunters1993 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:36 pm
13,13. So if you make 17 out of 20 championship games, win the next four championships. Will that be adequate to make the move? If you won the c-chip 10 out of 13 years would you then be ok with moving up?
Hermantown will never chose to move to A. That’s just a reality. Hopefully CEC will be in 7A very soon !
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pekyman
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by pekyman » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:41 pm

Hunters1993 is suffering from a severe case of “HDS”

defense
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Re: The Hermantown Thread

Post by defense » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:44 pm

Not sure if HDS means to you what it means to me.. but I think your right 🤟
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