Class A Rankings 1-17-16

[HShockeywatcher]

There are still 4 teams in the top 5 who haven't lost to a Class A team, the only loss coming in OT by Apollo to the team ranked right above them.
There is one key match up at the top this week and plenty of matchups with ranked teams so things could look very different next week.
Are there any teams you would like to see being mentioned that aren't? Let me know.

Enjoy!

1. [1] Hermantown (13-2-1)
The Hawks shut out Grand Rapids on the road, beat Cathedral, beat Greenway on the road and lost a close one to Bemidji. Their next 3 games are at home culminating with hosting their best Class A opponent of the season in Mahtomedi on Saturday.
Tues 1/19 vs Proctor, Fri 1/22 vs White Bear Lake, Sat 1/23 vs Mahtomedi

2. [2] Breck (13-3)
The Mustangs won 3 games on the road and with their win over Apollo solidified themselves as a Top 2 team. A slip up against SPA or @ Mahtomedi in their 24th game could drop them or a Hermantown slip could bump them up. They play their next 6 games at home.
Tues 1/19 vs Chanhassen, Thurs 1/21 vs Providence Academy

3. [3] St Cloud Apollo (13-2)
The Eagles played their biggest game of the season and lost in OT to Breck, showing they can keep it close. If seedings stay put, they could match up again in the semifinals at state. Their only two games of note are both next week, playing Little Falls on the road and hosting Hibbing.
Tues 1/19 @ Sauk Rapids-Rice, Thurs 1/23 @ Alexandria

4. [4] Mahtomedi (11-4)
The Zephyrs picked up a conference win at St Thomas but followed that up with a loss to Tartan. They still don't have a loss to a Class A team, although the rankings would indicate that will change in a week as they travel to Hermantown this Saturday. Can they hand Hermantown their first Class A loss?
Thurs 1/21 @ Hastings, Sat 1/23 @ Hermantown

5. [7] Hibbing (14-1)
The Bluejackets have done nothing but win this season until they suffered their first loss to a very good Grand Rapids team. With no Class A losses and a game at Apollo in a couple weeks, the only place they can go is up. This week they have 3 important home games, both for section and potentially state seeding.
Tues 1/19 vs Denfeld, Fri 1/22 vs Warroad, Sat 1/23 vs Thief River Falls

6. [8] East Grand Forks (11-5-1)
The Green Wave have pretty lopsided losses on back to back days to Breck and SPA in the beginning of December, but aside from that have a very good resume. As is the majority of their schedule, the rest of the way they are playing 8A, 8AA or ND teams. It'd be hard to imagine East Grand Forks cracking the top 5 even if they run the table, but there's only 1 way to find out...
Tues 1/19 @ Thief River Falls, Thurs 1/21 vs Grand Forks Red River, Sat 1/23 @ Grand Forks Central

7. [6] Delano (11-5)
The Tigers still only have Class A losses to Breck (by 2) and Hermantown (by 3) and now have a schedule that doesn't seem to shine too much. Their game one win over Blake just got better and their 1 goal loss to Holy Family is quite impressive. Can they win two more on the road, including a surging Litchfield team?
Tues 1/19 @ Mound Westonka, Fri @ Litchfield

8. [5] St Paul Academy (12-4)
The Spartans were upset by Blake in a game at seems to be more of a testament to Blake being underrated than showing the true colors of SPA. Now to match their regular season record of last year they're going to have to win out, beating Breck on the road. This Saturday's game in Breck appears to be their toughest until the Breck game.
Tues 1/19 @ Minnehaha Academy, Thurs 1/21 vs Minneapolis, Sat 1/23 @ St Paul Johnson

9. [9] Thief River Falls (12-4)
The Prowlers have two Class A losses to the top two teams so they really could be potentially be much higher if they keep winning. They have 3 really important games this week; how many can they win?
Tues 1/19 vs East Grand Forks, Fri 1/22 @ Denfeld, Sat 1/23 @ Hibbing

10. [10] St Cloud Cathedral (11-5)
The Crusaders have lost to the top 3 teams and 2 more ranked above them. On the docket this week are two potential upsets as Little Falls is on a 13 game win streak and Blake just upset SPA.
Tues 1/19 @ Little Falls, Sat 1/23 vs Blake

11. [12] Greenway (15-3)
They Raiders continue to win and played a close game with Hermantown. They should pick up 3 more wins this week before having another crack at Hibbing next week.
Tues 1/19 @ Virginia, Thurs 1/21 vs North Shore, Fri 1/22 @ International Falls

12. [-] Blake ( 8-8 )
The Bears are shut out Kennedy, beat SPA and beat Denfeld in 3 of their last 4 games. With the exception of their 1 goal Orono loss, their losses have been to quality opponents; 3 to teams ranked above them and 4 to AA teams. Winning their 3 games this week would be huge and they still have home and away games with Breck before sections.
Tues 1/19 @ Providence Academy, Thurs 1/21 @ Minnehaha Academy, Sat 1/23 @ Cathedral

13. [11] Duluth Denfeld (9-8-1)
The Hunters are a team who have played a lot of different teams and been in almost all of the games. Their score with Hermantown indicates they probably aren't going to state, but what about making it to the section final? Tuesday's game likely determines if they are a top 3 seed in the section or not.
Tues 1/19 @ Hibbing, Fri 1/22 vs Warroad, Sat 1/23 vs Thief River Falls

14. [13] Totino-Grace (7-8-1)
The Eagles have the most difficult Class A schedule to compare to others as there are only 5 Class A opponents. Their most recent loss was by 1 goal to Elk River so it's hard to think they're terrible. 6 games from now they play Mahtomedi on the road in what will likely determine section seeding and they should be battle tested.
Tues 1/19 @ Holy Angels, Thurs 1/21 vs Armstrong, Sat 1/23 @ Irondale

15. [-] Little Falls (15-2)
The Fliers are on a 13 game win streak in which they have allowed 10 goals. The competitions hasn't been great, so their next 3 games (Apollo next week) will determine how good this team really is.
Tues 1/19 vs Cathedral, Sat 1/23 vs Fergus Falls



Litchfield (14-2)
Tues 1/19 @ Orono, Fri 1/22 vs Delano

Luverne (14-4)
The Cardinals
Mon 1/18 @ Mankato East, Sat 1/23 @ New Prague

[14] Sartell-St Stephen (12-5)
The Sabres
Tues 1/19 vs Brainerd, Fri 1/22 vs St Cloud Tech

[howardst]

I have two that I believe you are wrong on

Hibbing - no question a top 3 team at this point. Only loss is to a team that is one of the true top 5-10 teams in the state considering both classes. A big win over a class A team that gave Hermantown everything they could handle. Hibbing has a team that stacks up better with Herm and Breck a lot better than Grand Rapids. Rapids has a bigger, more mature, and deeper roster. The top 2 class A teams both have 6-7 guys that carry them and those types of rosters the bluejackets can exploit with their strength being goaltending, and getting a mismatch having the states most electric player creating like no other individual player in the state can.

Greenway - 3 losses Denfeld was a fluke, Hibbing was a great game, Hermantown was great game. This team is dangerous and the only thing that will stop them is the section they are in. Herm and Hibbing are better and will make life tough on the Raiders. The only other section I don't think they advance out of is with Breck. To have them at 11 based on those three loses is a joke.

[goldy313]

Nice job, with a tough job.

My hunch is Mahtomedi may be the best team in class A but they do not deserve the #1 ranking. Outside the radar might be Redwood Valley, they have now beaten two teams that put running time on them earlier in the year, I'd have to think that is very rare. 3A takes a beating in perception but the top 3A teams are far better than the top 1A teams.

[CornerBar]

I have two that I believe you are wrong on

Hibbing - no question a top 3 team at this point. Only loss is to a team that is one of the true top 5-10 teams in the state considering both classes. A big win over a class A team that gave Hermantown everything they could handle. Hibbing has a team that stacks up better with Herm and Breck a lot better than Grand Rapids. Rapids has a bigger, more mature, and deeper roster. The top 2 class A teams both have 6-7 guys that carry them and those types of rosters the bluejackets can exploit with their strength being goaltending, and getting a mismatch having the states most electric player creating like no other individual player in the state can.

Greenway - 3 losses Denfeld was a fluke, Hibbing was a great game, Hermantown was great game. This team is dangerous and the only thing that will stop them is the section they are in. Herm and Hibbing are better and will make life tough on the Raiders. The only other section I don't think they advance out of is with Breck. To have them at 11 based on those three loses is a joke.

I'm sensing a little bit of section 7A bias here? Hibbing lost to GR 3-0 and Hermantown bear GR 5-0. That's an 8 goal swing right there. Saying Hibbing is a "no question" top 3 team is a bit of a stretch. Apollo took Breck to OT, a Breck team that could very well be ranked No. 1. Mahtomedi has knocked off STA, how do you justify putting Hibbing ahead of either of them? Hibbings signature win is over a Greenway team that only beat St. Cloud Tech 3-2. Now I'm not saying Greenway and Hibbing aren't good, but they may not be as good as you think. It's fine that they have beaten certain teams, but look at what the teams above them have done as well. I just don't think they have an argument to be ahead of Apollo or Mahtomedi at this point. But the Hibbing-Apollo match up and the Mahtomedi-Hermantown match up coming up in the next 2 weeks will give us a much better look at things.

[howardst]

Corner Bar - I respect your points and they are valid. 7A bias. Ummmm. Yup. I believe the top three in this section are better than the top 3 in any other section and I believe Hermantown is the best in the state. Combined they have 6 loses on the year and they play each other. Herm loss is to Tonka who just knocked off EP, and Edina. Hmmmm. Not bad. They did not loose to Rosemount or Maht. Not yet any way. Lol. So I do believe Sec7 is the best at the top of all the sections. Just an opinion. To bad we couldn't have a annual battle of the top 2 sections with the top 3 teams from each section play. 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 and see which sec really is the deepest. Do it for both classes and have all 6 games at ridder first week of feb. that would be fun.

[HShockeywatcher]

I have two that I believe you are wrong on

So where were your opinions before today? Unlike AA where there are a dozen common opponents and such, Class A is full of teams with nothing in common and comparing losses and margins verses non-common opponents. Look at the Top 5; 4 teams who haven't lost to a Class A team and the 1 loss was at 5:50 in OT to another Top 5 team. There could be a case made for the Top 5 in almost any order, probably with Apollo behind Breck. I've asked for opinions many times with no response...

As I've stated before, teams like Hibbing and Greenway (and now Little Falls and Litchfield) are in situations like U of Houston was this year and Utah has been before in the BCS. If you don't play anyone, there's little to say that you're better than the teams who are playing top teams regularly. It doesn't say you're not either, but it's hard to pull more from.

I was expecting (and hoping) that Hibbing would shut out Grand Rapids and I'd have an internal struggle of whether to put them at 1 or 2. That was my hope for literally the last 2 weeks. Everything was going fine with that being a possibility until Thursday. Then they played Grand Rapids and didn't score a goal. Compare that to a team like Mahtomedi who has 4 AA losses, in which they scored a goal [or two] every time, and they have a AA win over St Thomas. Now let's look at their schedule. They shut out Little Falls away, won in EGF by 1, in Crookston by 1, in Greenway by 2 (with all PP goals), beat Cloquet by 1, and won in Virginia by 1. I'm not seeing anything here that screams Top 3 when I have other schedules to compare to.

Greenway is much easier. They played all of 3 noteworthy teams. A loss (that surely could have been a fluke) to Denfeld, a loss to Hibbing and a close loss to Hermantown. Following that Hermantown game up with a 3-2 win over Tech doesn't show a lot.

Could Hermantown be 1, Hibbing be 2 and Greenway be 3? Sure, that's honestly entirely possible. Anything is at this point is entirely possible. We have Hermantown/Mahtomedi this week and Hibbing/Apollo next week, so the top teams should sort themselves out nicely. Plus Mahtomedi hosts Breck in a few weeks. Any of these teams could end up at 1 in a few weeks and and any could end up outside the top 5.

Nice job, with a tough job.

My hunch is Mahtomedi may be the best team in class A but they do not deserve the #1 ranking. Outside the radar might be Redwood Valley, they have now beaten two teams that put running time on them earlier in the year, I'd have to think that is very rare. 3A takes a beating in perception but the top 3A teams are far better than the top 1A teams.

Thanks

Yeah, the Zephyrs taking down the Hawks this week would really throw a wrench in things. Despite how many games have been played there's still lots of season left.

[rainier]

Nice work, HSHW, looks good.

Some thoughts:

Breck and Hermantown are really neck and neck now. Although the very recent Bemidji loss could justify a drop of Herm to #2 (especially given the recent Apollo and Moorhead wins for Breck), the GR win for Herm is a better win than anything Breck has thus far. I really wouldn't have an issue if someone put Breck at #1, though.

Apollo is #3 with a bullet after playing Breck so close. I thought it was great for them to show that they can hang with one of the top 2. (Yes, HSHW, I know they showed it last year also.) I'm really hoping they make it from 6A.

Although I just said Apollo is #3 with a bullet, when I look at Mahtomedi's resume, I guess I couldn't argue if someone had them at #3. Apollo's best win is still vs Brainerd, and Mahtomedi beat STA, a much better win. I agree, the Herm-Mahtomedi game will tell us a lot. Should be a great one.

I think Hibbing is appropriately placed. While GR was clearly better, Hibbing did generate quality scoring chances and-according to HSHW's logic-they should be given more credit because none of the goals GR scored were even strength. We'll really get a better idea on Hibbing as they play Denfeld, TRF, Greenway, Apollo, and Hermantown over their last ten games.

Greenway might be my only bone of contention with your rankings. I think they way the Raiders played Hermantown should move them up higher, given they did better against Hermantown than the #10, #9, and #7 teams did.

I'm really looking forward to the Cathedral-LF game. It will be interesting to see if LF's surge is for real, or if it has just been due to playing weaker teams. Looks like their goaltending is certainly for real, so that's going to give them a shot vs a lot of good teams.

[greenway1969]

I think Greenway is in the right spot. As has been pointed out, they do not have a signature win on their resume and have a weak schedule. Close losses are not wins. I'm actually very happy with a one goal win over Tech. Greenway was coming off a great game against Hermantown and could have easily been upset. This is once again a testament to the Greenway coaching staff having them play hard in every game and every shift. Hibbing's game against Apollo will be the contest that will confirm that Hibbing is a top four team or not. The top four teams since the beginning of the season were Hermantown, Breck, Mahtomedi and Apollo, nothing has happened that changes that.

Had an interesting conversation with a Hermantown fan. They were commenting on how poorly Hermantown played against Greenway. I still don't think Hermantown fans are concerned about possibly playing Greenway again in the Sectionals. Hermantown could beat them by 5 goals but if they really believe that the only reason the game was close was because they played poorly Greenway will have a chance.

[howardst]

Hsw - I do agree with you, I guess I should have stated where I believe they fall. Herm 1. Hibb 3-5. Greenway 7-10. Not huge moves but moves none the less.

I still stand by ranking any team before Christmas is wrong with the change over year to year in high school. If you rank before giving teams time to play a few you get caught up in do I move them up or down based on this week. If you wait and start a ranking based on what te do this year vs last you get a better idea. Very similar to NCAA bcs. No ranking until they are into the season. That is just my opinion but there is a reason they do it that way also being 4 yr window and huge turn over unlike a pro team that could be together for a decade.

[stromboli]

I don't think there's a whole lot more to learn about most of these teams between now and playoffs. Regardless of a few more nice wins and/or head scratching losses, we have a pretty good idea of who the contenders, dark horses, and spoilers are. A bigger issue might simply be momentum going into playoffs,,, or I hope not, but injuries.

In my book, this is a year where there's a lot of parity with multiple teams all arguably being about the same. I'd say the same thing is true of AA. This just isn't a year like the past few where there's a clearly dominant team and we're all trying to figure out who might knock them off. Last year in AA it was LVN. The prior two years it was Edina. Those were dominant teams and it was fun ranking other teams relative to the top dogs. Everyone else was an underdog.

This year, we have a bunch of teams who could end up winning the title at the X, with no clearly dominant team. That makes it hard for me to split hairs over which teams should be ranked x,y, or z at this point.

I look at it something like this,,,

Contenders. Call them 1a, 1b, 1c, etc. as I think any of them are in a good position to win it all. They include Hermantown, Breck, St. Cloud Apollo, and Mahtomedi. Those are the top teams from each of their sections, and all are arguably top-5 teams.

Dark Horses. This is a scary group, any of which are good enough to "easily" knock off one of the teams above coming out of sections, or are a top team in a somewhat weaker section (e.g., 8A). Any of these teams is good enough to get on a streak and go the distance. They include Hibbing (the only reason I include Hibbing here rather in the group above is because they likely have to get by Hermantown to get out of sections... it has nothing to do with what they should be ranked... which could be anything from #2 to #5), Delano, St. Paul Academy, and a toss up between Thief River Falls and East Grand Forks.

Spoilers. These are teams that could knock off a team above, but likely don't have the depth and/or consistency to make a run all the way to a state title. They include teams like Greenway, St. Cloud Cathedral, and Blake. You could throw about another 6-8 teams in this group. If Greenway were to make it out of their section,,, back to my earlier point about momentum,,, they'd be a top-ten team who could be this year's Cinderella story, which is what it'd be if they made it to state.

What should be exciting for everyone is looking forward to the section playoff matchups. Hermantown vs. Hibbing vs. Greenway? Breck vs. Delano vs. Blake? Mahtomedi vs. SPA? St. Cloud Apollo vs. Tech vs. ?? Thief River Falls vs. EGF?

I think all of the teams that make it to the state playoffs will feel like they've earned their ticket and could win it all. It should make for a great tournament!

[greenway1969]

Stromboli, the only thing I would disagree with in your assessment is that Greenway has not played consistent. They are not as deep as teams ranked above them, but I would say that along with Apollo they are the most consistent team in Class A. They have beaten every team that they should have and played every team that has beaten them fairly even and thus have no bad losses. I have only seen them play two bad periods all year, the first period against Sauk Rapids and the Falls. A truer statement about the "spoiler" teams is that they lack depth and/or are not consistent.

[stromboli]

Stromboli, the only thing I would disagree with in your assessment is that Greenway has not played consistent. They are not as deep as teams ranked above them, but I would say that along with Apollo they are the most consistent team in Class A. They have beaten every team that they should have and played every team that has beaten them fairly even and thus have no bad losses. I have only seen them play two bad periods all year, the first period against Sauk Rapids and the Falls. A truer statement about the "spoiler" teams is that they lack depth and/or are not consistent.

\

Fair point and I didn't intend to say that they hadn't played consistently. Edited above to "and/or."

[HShockeywatcher]

I still stand by ranking any team before Christmas is wrong with the change over year to year in high school.

I don't disagree with the idea of what you're saying, especially for NCAA, which is why the BCS rankings don't come out right away. High school is very different, though, as you know who is coming back the next year (and likely who is coming up because of bantams). So we know what we should expect. Which is why I start the year with LPH's rankings and adjust accordingly.

In my book, this is a year where there's a lot of parity with multiple teams all arguably being about the same.

I think this may be the case this year, but it's one of the first years in a long time that we don't actually know this. We don't have 5 teams who've beat each other up and it's hard to rank them, we have 5 teams who have handled business and haven't played each other so we really don't know. On top of that, we have multiple teams who are doing well with most of their schedule aside from 2-3 losses to these top teams and not much else to compare them. I think parity is much different than simply "not having played other similar teams."

[howardst]

Hsw. I respect your view. You do put some thought in it. Thanks for putting your list together. It is refreshing to have a discussion with a person that has a open mind and not just tied to a very narrow view. Thanks

[rainier]

Hsw. I respect your view. You do put some thought in it. Thanks for putting your list together. It is refreshing to have a discussion with a person that has a open mind and not just tied to a very narrow view. Thanks

This statement is the least surprising thing I've ever read on this forum.

HSHW and howardst are a match made in heaven.

[howardst]

Rainer. You never cease to amaze me. Keep dazzling us with your uneducated brilliance Maybe you spent to much time standing in the snow bank at the Brooklyn rink being teased by the cool kids.

[rainier]

Hsw - I do agree with you, I guess I should have stated where I believe they fall. Herm 1. Hibb 3-5. Greenway 7-10. Not huge moves but moves none the less.

I still stand by ranking any team before Christmas is wrong with the change over year to year in high school. If you rank before giving teams time to play a few you get caught up in do I move them up or down based on this week. If you wait and start a ranking based on what te do this year vs last you get a better idea. Very similar to NCAA bcs. No ranking until they are into the season. That is just my opinion but there is a reason they do it that way also being 4 yr window and huge turn over unlike a pro team that could be together for a decade.

But your perception is "spot on", so why wouldn't you want to rank the teams? You "will be proven right", so why don't you give us some score predictions instead of empty "I told you so" after games are done? You'll freely toss out wild rumors about Hibbing players and their parents, so why not speculate on the teams themselves?

Give us some real rankings, score predictions, and player evaluations. Unleash that immense intellect and unparalleled hockey sense so that the rest of us may be blessed with your divine powers. Go beyond the artificial borders of Greenway and let your keen mind apply itself to other teams. The hs hockey world cries out for your wisdom!

How about an opinion on a top ten A team not in 7A? You know so much, yet you tell us so little. We are but peasants starving for your nourishing hockey observations.

[howardst]

My ranking will be out tonight.

No rumors. When a person makes dumb comments and then things twist its common practice to call them rumors. Never ripped on any kids. Over zealous dad, yup. Well known there is one in Hibbing. It's not a 13-14 year olds choice. Really????

As far as the rest, I will no longer banter with the weak of mind

[TTpuckster]

This is all fine and dandy.
The conversation is good.

I just want to help you all realize that, in the end, the goalie for EGF has improved markedly since the beginning of the year, as Elliot will attest to. And with Loven returning soon, I expect EGF to 3 - Peat. You heard it here first!!!

[rainier]

This is all fine and dandy.
The conversation is good.

I just want to help you all realize that, in the end, the goalie for EGF has improved markedly since the beginning of the year, as Elliot will attest to. And with Loven returning soon, I expect EGF to 3 - Peat. You heard it here first!!!

I think they can do it. They've been staying in the top ten without Loven being on the ice. It sounds like he will get back in time to knock the rust off in a few regular season games before playoffs begin.

We finally get to see the top two in 8A go at it as EGF goes to TRF on Tuesday.

[greenway1969]

EGF will take out Hermantown for the third straight year, this time in the semifinals. I'm assuming Hermantown makes it out of Section 7A, which is no sure bet. Hermantown used to be able to go to the finals with no real serious challenge. That is not the case anymore. The depth and quality of the number Single A teams has improved greatly over the last few years. There will probably be five quality teams (Breck, Hermantown, EGF, Mahtomedi, and Apollo) at the State Tournament with any one of them capable of winning it all. Also each of those teams will face a tough challenge just to make it to state.

[Sats81]

What happens if Hermantown finishes 2nd again?

[Sats81]

EGF will take out Hermantown for the third straight year, this time in the semifinals. I'm assusming Hermantown makes it out of Section 7A, which is no sure bet. Hermantown used to be able to go to the finals with no real serious challenge. That is not the case anymore. The depth and quality of the number Single A teams has improved greatly over the last few years. There will be probably be five quality teams (Breck, Hermantown, EGF, Mahtomedi, and Apollo) at the State Tournament with any one of them capable of winning it all. Also each of those teams will face a tough challenge just to make it to state.

Wait, where did STA go?

[Jeffy95]

What happens if Hermantown finishes 2nd again?

That would be really cool. I love the Sports curses and it's always fun to see them continue. I was really bummed when the Red Sox won. The Skrbich curse in Hermantown ranks right up there with the Curse of the Bambino and the Curse of the Billy Goat!

[rainier]

What happens if Hermantown finishes 2nd again?

That would be really cool. I love the Sports curses and it's always fun to see them continue. I was really bummed when the Red Sox won. The Skrbich curse in Hermantown ranks right up there with the Curse of the Bambino and the Curse of the Billy Goat!

What is the Skrbich curse?