HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

BLUE TEAM
1 Jack Kelly D Maple Grove
2 Nick Leivermann D Eden Prairie
3 Mason Palmer D SSM 16U
4 Sam Rossini D Waterloo
5 Jason Smallidge D Cretin-Derham Hall
6 Casey Staum D Hill-Murray
7 Ash Altmann F Duluth East
8 Cameron Buhl F South St Paul
9 Henry Enabak F Lakeville North
10 Kevin Fellows F Prior Lake
11 Justin Jallen F St Paul Academy
12 Max Johnson F Lakeville North
13 William Rooney F Armstrong/Cooper
14 Chaz Smedsrud F Luverne
15 Brady Tatro F Bemidji
16 Riley Tufte F Blaine
61 Ryan Edquist G Lakeville North
62 Nick Lee G Burnsville

RED TEAM
21 Matt Denman D Prior Lake
22 Brian Hurley D St Thomas Academy
23 Matt Kierstad D Elk River
24 Keaton Pehrson D Lakeville North
25 Harmon Sorenson D Wayzata
26 Trevor Zins D St Michael/Albertville
27 Cade Borchardt F Burnsvile
28 Luke Dow F Duluth East
29 Jack Johnson F Bemidji
30 Anthony Juriko F Eagan
31 Ben Meyers F Delano
32 Casey Mittelstadt F Eden Prairie
33 Jax Murray F Elk River
34 Zachary Risteau F Benilde-Saint Margaret's
35 Taylor Schneider F Lakeville North
36 Jensen Zerban F Elk River
63 Kyle McKinney G Lakevile North
64 Cole Weaver G Minnesota Magician


WHITE TEAM
41 Brendan Bushy D Thief River Falls
42 Shay Donovan D Duluth East
43 Tyler Jette D Farmington
44 Nicholas Leitner D Bemidji
45 Scott Perunovich D Hibbing
46 Robbie Stucker D St Thomas Academy
47 Conner Clemmons F Prior Lake
48 Sam Huff F Maple Grove
49 Cole Koepke F Hermantown
50 Josh Lusby F Bemidji
51 Mitchell Mattson F Grand Rapids
52 Bennett Norlin F SSM 16U
53 Mark Senden F Wayzata
54 Brenden Skarda F Minnetonka
55 Bryden Stoskopf F Roseau
56 Garrett Wait F Edina
65 Jacob Helberg G St Thomas Academy
66 Drew Scites G Prior Lake

Observations

1. How did section 7 get 10 kids into the 54s from the losers side of the bracket and going 1-2 in the tournament?
2. How did section 2 which won the tournament going 3-0 only get 6 skaters?
3. How does Section 6 from the losers side of the bracket get 7 players?
4. How did Section 5 the runner up only get 3 skaters?
5. How does Section 1 get 7 skaters when they go 1-2?
6. 3 of the top 11 goal scorers did not move on?
7. 4 of the top 14 scorers did not move on?
8 There were 27 players with 3 or more points in 3 games, 9 of them did not move on?
9. What game/play pushed 4 fwds with ZERO points to the 54’s?
10. What game/play pushed 7 fwds with 1 points to the 54’s?
11. Mn Hockey collected $28,000 for this event/tryout. Why charge when the team is already picked before the event starts?

The questions regarding Section 8 getting 6 players through are so obvious that they'll remain unasked to protect those involved. Of course we'll hear it's about the overall talent including the intangibles like what players are doing without the puck or that the stats are completely wrong or that there was no synergy because of lack of practices. All good stuff.

buttend wrote:Observations

1. How did section 7 get 10 kids into the 54s from the losers side of the bracket and going 1-2 in the tournament?
2. How did section 2 which won the tournament going 3-0 only get 6 skaters?
3. How does Section 6 from the losers side of the bracket get 7 players?
4. How did Section 5 the runner up only get 3 skaters?
5. How does Section 1 get 7 skaters when they go 1-2?
6. 3 of the top 11 goal scorers did not move on?
7. 4 of the top 14 scorers did not move on?
8 There were 27 players with 3 or more points in 3 games, 9 of them did not move on?
9. What game/play pushed 4 fwds with ZERO points to the 54’s?
10. What game/play pushed 7 fwds with 1 points to the 54’s?
11. Mn Hockey collected $28,000 for this event/tryout. Why charge when the team is already picked before the event starts?

Was the team picked in its entirety? No. Was a large majority of the kids picked before the weekend? Yes, because its based on body of work. They want to get the best 54 kids to represent the State of Hockey. If a kid has committed to a division 1 college do you really think they are not going to pick that kid? So there is a large number of kids right there. For some kids it is how they play that weekend unfortunately but that's the way it goes. Again, it's not necessarily about the points, but your overall game. Should the cherry picker make it that scores 4 goals and does nothing else? I wouldn't want that kid. Come back next year more hungry. What else can you do.

You're right to a certain extent 100. But MN hockey hangs it's hat on the yearly turnover on these teams and that is just simply not true. IMO it is disingenuous to bring in and cut the same players year after year or to attract new participants and $$ to your programs without everyone on the same page knowing exactly what you stated. The youngest players and families especially don't realize there are 50 things about a kid that are taken into consideration. Only 1 is how anyone played festival weekend. Or apparently if they were even there.

buttend wrote:Observations

1. How did section 7 get 10 kids into the 54s from the losers side of the bracket and going 1-2 in the tournament?
2. How did section 2 which won the tournament going 3-0 only get 6 skaters?
3. How does Section 6 from the losers side of the bracket get 7 players?
4. How did Section 5 the runner up only get 3 skaters?
5. How does Section 1 get 7 skaters when they go 1-2?
6. 3 of the top 11 goal scorers did not move on?
7. 4 of the top 14 scorers did not move on?
8 There were 27 players with 3 or more points in 3 games, 9 of them did not move on?
9. What game/play pushed 4 fwds with ZERO points to the 54’s?
10. What game/play pushed 7 fwds with 1 points to the 54’s?
11. Mn Hockey collected $28,000 for this event/tryout. Why charge when the team is already picked before the event starts?

Year after year after year it's the same bs. Go look at prior year posts and you'll see the same complaints. This is nothing more than a money-grab, and the parents of these kids keep falling for it - hook. line, sinker.

buttend wrote:Observations

1. How did section 7 get 10 kids into the 54s from the losers side of the bracket and going 1-2 in the tournament?
2. How did section 2 which won the tournament going 3-0 only get 6 skaters?
3. How does Section 6 from the losers side of the bracket get 7 players?
4. How did Section 5 the runner up only get 3 skaters?
5. How does Section 1 get 7 skaters when they go 1-2?
6. 3 of the top 11 goal scorers did not move on?
7. 4 of the top 14 scorers did not move on?
8 There were 27 players with 3 or more points in 3 games, 9 of them did not move on?
9. What game/play pushed 4 fwds with ZERO points to the 54’s?
10. What game/play pushed 7 fwds with 1 points to the 54’s?
11. Mn Hockey collected $28,000 for this event/tryout. Why charge when the team is already picked before the event starts?

Because they aren't picking INDIVIDUAL players for the final 54 based off a TEAMS performance. W/L means nothing in these things. Sorry.

Points 1-5 can also be addressed by goalie performance. Some teams had goalies that played well, others didn't. GB

buttend wrote:Observations...

You'll never make everyone 100% happy with every selection. The truth is, there's not a whole lot separating many of these kids.

I will say, even if you disagree with who the volunteers selected, there was also at least half a dozen D-1 head coaches/assistant coaches, nearly every USHL team, other junior teams, a few area NHL scouts, and every agent/advisor in the Twin Cities there watching. I've seen kids/families pay much more for less competition/exposure than what last weekend provided.

If a kid is truly good enough, he'll end up on somebody's list. I've already talked to some scouts that have said certain kids that didn't get picked for the 16s Final 54 will get picked in the USHL Futures Draft. Jake Olson didn't make the Final 54 two years ago and he ended up okay. It's not the end of the world if your kid didn't get picked.

The most interesting statistic to me is 50 kids from class AA.

Four from Class A.

My question would be why people still keep putting stock in this HP system. So much of it is dictated by coaches, promoting players off ice, and name recognition. Very little of it is based on the play in these games. Keep shoveling your money if you want, but these teams were predictable. If you don't get the right looks from the right people, you are out. Spend your time and money elsewhere. There are better spring/summer programs out there. And no, not sour grapes. Don't have a player this age. Yet. We will probably be hook line and sinker people too.

100percenteffort wrote:

buttend wrote:Observations

1. How did section 7 get 10 kids into the 54s from the losers side of the bracket and going 1-2 in the tournament?
2. How did section 2 which won the tournament going 3-0 only get 6 skaters?
3. How does Section 6 from the losers side of the bracket get 7 players?
4. How did Section 5 the runner up only get 3 skaters?
5. How does Section 1 get 7 skaters when they go 1-2?
6. 3 of the top 11 goal scorers did not move on?
7. 4 of the top 14 scorers did not move on?
8 There were 27 players with 3 or more points in 3 games, 9 of them did not move on?
9. What game/play pushed 4 fwds with ZERO points to the 54’s?
10. What game/play pushed 7 fwds with 1 points to the 54’s?
11. Mn Hockey collected $28,000 for this event/tryout. Why charge when the team is already picked before the event starts?

Was the team picked in its entirety? No. Was a large majority of the kids picked before the weekend? Yes, because its based on body of work. They want to get the best 54 kids to represent the State of Hockey. If a kid has committed to a division 1 college do you really think they are not going to pick that kid? So there is a large number of kids right there. For some kids it is how they play that weekend unfortunately but that's the way it goes. Again, it's not necessarily about the points, but your overall game. Should the cherry picker make it that scores 4 goals and does nothing else? I wouldn't want that kid. Come back next year more hungry. What else can you do.

Great points. More people need to understand this and stop complaining about the process.

notTONIGHT wrote:The most interesting statistic to me is 50 kids from class AA.

Four from Class A.

What is so interesting? Is this a surprise?

Sats81 wrote:

notTONIGHT wrote:The most interesting statistic to me is 50 kids from class AA.

Four from Class A.

What is so interesting? Is this a surprise?

Yeah, kinda. Everyone expects more Class AA kids, but not 92%. I would expect somewhere in the 65-80% range.

Bluewhitefan wrote:

buttend wrote:Observations

1. How did section 7 get 10 kids into the 54s from the losers side of the bracket and going 1-2 in the tournament?
2. How did section 2 which won the tournament going 3-0 only get 6 skaters?
3. How does Section 6 from the losers side of the bracket get 7 players?
4. How did Section 5 the runner up only get 3 skaters?
5. How does Section 1 get 7 skaters when they go 1-2?
6. 3 of the top 11 goal scorers did not move on?
7. 4 of the top 14 scorers did not move on?
8 There were 27 players with 3 or more points in 3 games, 9 of them did not move on?
9. What game/play pushed 4 fwds with ZERO points to the 54’s?
10. What game/play pushed 7 fwds with 1 points to the 54’s?
11. Mn Hockey collected $28,000 for this event/tryout. Why charge when the team is already picked before the event starts?

Year after year after year it's the same bs. Go look at prior year posts and you'll see the same complaints. This is nothing more than a money-grab, and the parents of these kids keep falling for it - hook. line, sinker.

You are right on, my friend. I went through this crap a few years back and it looks like it will never change - It is purely, totally a COMPLETE MONEY GRAB.

Sats81 wrote:

100percenteffort wrote:

buttend wrote:Observations

1. How did section 7 get 10 kids into the 54s from the losers side of the bracket and going 1-2 in the tournament?
2. How did section 2 which won the tournament going 3-0 only get 6 skaters?
3. How does Section 6 from the losers side of the bracket get 7 players?
4. How did Section 5 the runner up only get 3 skaters?
5. How does Section 1 get 7 skaters when they go 1-2?
6. 3 of the top 11 goal scorers did not move on?
7. 4 of the top 14 scorers did not move on?
8 There were 27 players with 3 or more points in 3 games, 9 of them did not move on?
9. What game/play pushed 4 fwds with ZERO points to the 54’s?
10. What game/play pushed 7 fwds with 1 points to the 54’s?
11. Mn Hockey collected $28,000 for this event/tryout. Why charge when the team is already picked before the event starts?

Was the team picked in its entirety? No. Was a large majority of the kids picked before the weekend? Yes, because its based on body of work. They want to get the best 54 kids to represent the State of Hockey. If a kid has committed to a division 1 college do you really think they are not going to pick that kid? So there is a large number of kids right there. For some kids it is how they play that weekend unfortunately but that's the way it goes. Again, it's not necessarily about the points, but your overall game. Should the cherry picker make it that scores 4 goals and does nothing else? I wouldn't want that kid. Come back next year more hungry. What else can you do.

Great points. More people need to understand this and stop complaining about the process.

If the organizers were up front then this might be possible. If 20-30% of the spots are taken by "locks" that don't even need to show up, then I'd like to know that before I invest my money. They can't "understand" and "stop complaining" when the money-grabbers are never clear on what the process is. I don't think anyone would have a problem with national camp invitees or D1 commits being "locks," but spell that out and I'll decide if it's a worth-while investment.

Bluewhitefan wrote:

Sats81 wrote:

100percenteffort wrote: Was the team picked in its entirety? No. Was a large majority of the kids picked before the weekend? Yes, because its based on body of work. They want to get the best 54 kids to represent the State of Hockey. If a kid has committed to a division 1 college do you really think they are not going to pick that kid? So there is a large number of kids right there. For some kids it is how they play that weekend unfortunately but that's the way it goes. Again, it's not necessarily about the points, but your overall game. Should the cherry picker make it that scores 4 goals and does nothing else? I wouldn't want that kid. Come back next year more hungry. What else can you do.

Great points. More people need to understand this and stop complaining about the process.

If the organizers were up front then this might be possible. If 20-30% of the spots are taken by "locks" that don't even need to show up, then I'd like to know that before I invest my money. They can't "understand" and "stop complaining" when the money-grabbers are never clear on what the process is. I don't think anyone would have a problem with national camp invitees or D1 commits being "locks," but spell that out and I'll decide if it's a worth-while investment.

I think it goes without saying that this has and will continue to happen.

I have questions...

Where do you people get your information?

How do you know it is a lock for some kids?

Why do you think it is a money grab?

How do you know the thought process of the evaluators?

Why do you make such a fuss about it when you or yours are not directly involved?

What makes you an expert on which players are deserving?

Put your names on here and let us evaluate your criteria to be a critic of the system...
Present your criticism to MH, the hockey ops committee, give me your ideas for changes that should be made....

In other words, try doing something positive rather than complaining about something anonymously with no knowledge on the actual facts and not offering corrections or a better system.

elliott70 wrote:I have questions...

Where do you people get your information?

How do you know it is a lock for some kids?

Why do you think it is a money grab?

How do you know the thought process of the evaluators?

Why do you make such a fuss about it when you or yours are not directly involved?

What makes you an expert on which players are deserving?

Put your names on here and let us evaluate your criteria to be a critic of the system...
Present your criticism to MH, the hockey ops committee, give me your ideas for changes that should be made....

In other words, try doing something positive rather than complaining about something anonymously with no knowledge on the actual facts and not offering corrections or a better system.

Amen.

I have an answer. ..

Their kids didn't make it.

[quote="buttend"]Observations

1. How did section 7 get 10 kids into the 54s from the losers side of the bracket and going 1-2 in the tournament?
2. How did section 2 which won the tournament going 3-0 only get 6 skaters?
3. How does Section 6 from the losers side of the bracket get 7 players?
4. How did Section 5 the runner up only get 3 skaters?
5. How does Section 1 get 7 skaters when they go 1-2?
6. 3 of the top 11 goal scorers did not move on?
7. 4 of the top 14 scorers did not move on?
8 There were 27 players with 3 or more points in 3 games, 9 of them did not move on?
9. What game/play pushed 4 fwds with ZERO points to the 54’s?
10. What game/play pushed 7 fwds with 1 points to the 54’s?
11. Mn Hockey collected $28,000 for this event/tryout. Why charge when the team is already picked before the event starts?[/quote]


So, your son didn't make it?

WCHBlog wrote:

buttend wrote:Observations...

You'll never make everyone 100% happy with every selection. The truth is, there's not a whole lot separating many of these kids.

I will say, even if you disagree with who the volunteers selected, there was also at least half a dozen D-1 head coaches/assistant coaches, nearly every USHL team, other junior teams, a few area NHL scouts, and every agent/advisor in the Twin Cities there watching. I've seen kids/families pay much more for less competition/exposure than what last weekend provided.

If a kid is truly good enough, he'll end up on somebody's list. I've already talked to some scouts that have said certain kids that didn't get picked for the 16s Final 54 will get picked in the USHL Futures Draft. Jake Olson didn't make the Final 54 two years ago and he ended up okay. It's not the end of the world if your kid didn't get picked.

There are no volunteers in the glass facade above the rink. They are all compensated.

Section 7 10 players all from public schools !!

Rosemount goalie looked like he should have made it to me !! [Hart]

old goalie85 wrote:Rosemount goalie looked like he should have made it to me !! [Hart]

Ahhh, gotta love the most highly politicized position in youth sports.