Duluth Denfeld, Rock Ridge to opt up to Class AA, Hermantown to stay Class A

[SpreadOut!]

I have opinions on Hermantown, but I think it’s best not share them…

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sport ... o-class-aa

[rainier2]

I have opinions on Hermantown, but I think it’s best not share them…

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sport ... o-class-aa

In the article, they only list Virginia-MIB and Eveleth-Gilbert, giving Rock Ridge an enrollment number of 830. However, Mesabi East and Cherry are also included in the co-op, so I believe Rock Ridge now has a hockey enrollment larger than GR. (around 1100)

I'd imagine with two teams moving out of 7A, this means CEC will end up in 7A.

Kudos to RR and Denfeld for going for it; it's the logical move, IMO. RR has completed well with DE and GR at youth levels, so if Andover gets booted from 7AA, this could be a great move for them. Was hoping Hibbing would also take the plunge, but no dice.

[Corn Cobb]

Is it possible that Denfeld will be able to pry away some players from Hermantown through open enrollment because of the move to AA? I have no idea and am curious.

[SpreadOut!]

No, the idea behind the state tournament is not having the best 8 teams play for the chip, it's having the best team from each of the 8 sections play for the chip. It's obvious you don't like it, but that's the way it is.

I have no issue with the current section set up whatsoever or what the objectives are. The people from the north for some reason feel/think that the north deserves two state participants each year. If they/you didn’t, you/they wouldn’t keep suggesting moving Andover out of 7AA. The two teams that are moving to AA next season from 7A haven’t beat anyone close to a good AA team this season. Just be honest and admit that moving Andover out makes it a lot easier for a north team to go to state. If that’s not your argument then Anoka and Coon Rapids are farther south than Andover is. Those two should move.

You got a whole lot of hallucinating going on in your head as to what I feel/think.
-I clearly stated that Andover getting out of 7AA would be a great thing for RR, I don't know why you are demanding I "admit" it.
-I don't think there should always be two northern teams, nor have I said that.
-I'm speaking from the perspective of a team like RR: their goal is to get to state, and what appears to be the easiest path is to go to 7AA, which lets them avoid Hermantown and also results in the best team in 7AA being moved (possibly). I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing in general, I'm saying from RR's perspective, it's a no-brainer.

Wouldn’t Coon Rapids, Blaine or Anoka—more recent additions to 7AA and farther south—be more likely to be moved out of 7AA than Andover?

[headsupsticksdown]

Is it possible that Denfeld will be able to pry away some players from Hermantown through open enrollment because of the move to AA? I have no idea and am curious.

IMO, this is a desperation move by Denfeld to keep whatever homegrown talent they have. As with Proctor, any kid that shows promise ends up open enrolling at either East or HTown. So, I’m guessing they’re hoping they keep some and or are a destination for kids from other boundaries.. It hasn’t worked for Marshall, so curious to see how this goes. I hope it works out, but think it’s a long shot…

[SpreadOut!]

You got a whole lot of hallucinating going on in your head as to what I feel/think.
-I clearly stated that Andover getting out of 7AA would be a great thing for RR, I don't know why you are demanding I "admit" it.
-I don't think there should always be two northern teams, nor have I said that.
-I'm speaking from the perspective of a team like RR: their goal is to get to state, and what appears to be the easiest path is to go to 7AA, which lets them avoid Hermantown and also results in the best team in 7AA being moved (possibly). I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing in general, I'm saying from RR's perspective, it's a no-brainer.

Wouldn’t Coon Rapids, Blaine or Anoka—more recent additions to 7AA and farther south—be more likely to be moved out of 7AA than Andover?

Don't know, but if not, it's great for RR. This was another reason why it would have been nice if Hibbing and Proctor had also gone AA; even better chance of Andover being moved out.

Okay, but what about Hermantown? Surely they should move to AA if Proctor and Hibbing should have, right?

[rainier2]

Wouldn’t Coon Rapids, Blaine or Anoka—more recent additions to 7AA and farther south—be more likely to be moved out of 7AA than Andover?

Don't know, but if not, it's great for RR. This was another reason why it would have been nice if Hibbing and Proctor had also gone AA; even better chance of Andover being moved out.

Okay, but what about Hermantown? Surely they should move to AA if Proctor and Hibbing should have, right?

Hermantown isn't going AA, period. So why even consider that as an option? Proctor and Hibbing at least discussed going AA.

[SpreadOut!]

Don't know, but if not, it's great for RR. This was another reason why it would have been nice if Hibbing and Proctor had also gone AA; even better chance of Andover being moved out.

Okay, but what about Hermantown? Surely they should move to AA if Proctor and Hibbing should have, right?

Hermantown isn't going AA, period. So why even consider that as an option? Proctor and Hibbing at least discussed going AA.

Maybe, just maybe, Hermantown will eventually feel shame and do the right thing.

[east hockey]

Nuked a post with the political reference and also the replies to it.

Lee

[rainier2]

Okay, but what about Hermantown? Surely they should move to AA if Proctor and Hibbing should have, right?

Hermantown isn't going AA, period. So why even consider that as an option? Proctor and Hibbing at least discussed going AA.

Maybe, just maybe, Hermantown will eventually feel shame and do the right thing.

I hear ya. Been thinking that for several years now, but it's a pipe dream.

Hermantown has decided the easier path for them to get to state is to stay in 7A and duck the top programs in 7AA. That's why I don't see a problem with other 7A teams ducking Hermantown and opting for what they see as the easier path to state for themselves also.

[SpreadOut!]

Hermantown isn't going AA, period. So why even consider that as an option? Proctor and Hibbing at least discussed going AA.

Maybe, just maybe, Hermantown will eventually feel shame and do the right thing.

I hear ya. Been thinking that for several years now, but it's a pipe dream.

Hermantown has decided the easier path for them to get to state is to stay in 7A and duck the top programs in 7AA. That's why I don't see a problem with other 7A teams ducking Hermantown and opting for what they see as the easier path to state for themselves also.

Don’t disagree. What a shame that it’s gotten to this point. I remember cheering for Hermantown back in the day against St. Thomas Academy in state tourney. They are now St. Thomas Academy. Actually, Hermantown has now far exceeded St. Thomas Academy in being the absolute villain of MN high school hockey. STA finally made the jump. Hermantown refuses. Gross.

[rainier2]

Maybe, just maybe, Hermantown will eventually feel shame and do the right thing.

I hear ya. Been thinking that for several years now, but it's a pipe dream.

Hermantown has decided the easier path for them to get to state is to stay in 7A and duck the top programs in 7AA. That's why I don't see a problem with other 7A teams ducking Hermantown and opting for what they see as the easier path to state for themselves also.

Don’t disagree. What a shame that it’s gotten to this point. I remember cheering for Hermantown back in the day against St. Thomas Academy in state tourney. They are now St. Thomas Academy. Actually, Hermantown has now far exceeded St. Thomas Academy in being the absolute villain of MN high school hockey. STA finally made the jump. Hermantown refuses. Gross.

I also used to cheer for the Hawks back before they turned into the very thing Bruce Plante despised.

But yes, I wanted RR, Hibbing, Denfeld, and Proctor to all go AA not just so that it was more likely that Andover got pushed out of 7AA, thereby giving at least Hibbing and RR a better shot at state the next few years, but also to have Hermantown sit there in 7A, winning playoffs games by 20 instead of 10, having the shame pile up even further.

[ClassAGuy]

Post this here as looking how this move will really shakeup Class A Sections as well not just 7AA

With the news of the moves announced yesterday have major shockwaves CEC will stay up in 7A meaning how the computer redraws the map will be curious, both 4A and 6A will need around 10 teams so adding two to each will be curious

Looking at enrollments due to those 2 opting up and knowing Bemidji chooses to opt up it would bump Sartell out of the Top 64 and bring them back to Class A, not unheard of both NFLD and NP spent time AA before coming back after opt ups

Going off of the past could see something like the below.... for new sections this coming April

1A- (10) Albert Lea, Dodge County, La Crescent, Rochester Lourdes, Winona, Waseca, Austin, Minnesota River, Mankato West, Mankato East
2A- (10) Orono, Providence Academy, Delano, Minneapolis, Southwest Christian, Waconia, Breck, Mound Westonka, Bloomington Kennedy, New Prague
3A- (10) New Ulm, Luverne, Litchfield Dassel-Cokato, Hutchinson , Marshall, Windom, Fairmont, Worthington, Redwood Valley, Willmar
4A- (10) Mahtomedi, Two Rivers, St Paul Highland Park, St Paul Academy, Simley, South St Paul, St Paul Johnson, Faribault, Northfield, Red Wing
5A- (10) Monticello, Cambridge Isanti, St Cloud Cathedral, Princeton, Sauk Rapids, Pine City, Becker/Big Lake, Mora, Chisago Lakes, Moose Lake
6A- (10) Alexandria, Fergus Falls, Northern Lakes, Wadena, Morris Benson, Prairie Centre, Breckenridge/Wahpeton, Little Falls, River Lakes, Sartell
7A- (10) Hermantown, Hibbing, Cloquet, Duluth Marshall, Greenway, Proctor, International Falls, North Shore, Ely, Stella Maris
8A- (10) Warroad, East Grand Forks, Detroit Lakes, Thief River Falls, Kittson County Central, Red Lake Falls, Bagley/Fosston, Park Rapids, Crookston, Lake of the Woods

[rainier2]

7A- (10) Hermantown, Hibbing, Cloquet, Duluth Marshall, Greenway, Proctor, International Falls, North Shore, Ely, Stella Maris

Did DM drop down to A?

[ClassAGuy]

7A- (10) Hermantown, Hibbing, Cloquet, Duluth Marshall, Greenway, Proctor, International Falls, North Shore, Ely, Stella Maris

Did DM drop down to A?

Was assuming their program was dropping back to Class A as the opt up has been terrible to their program and they have been through like 3 coaches since RIP Flaherty hatched the idea of maybe getting more elite kids because AA did not pan out may have caused the opposite, as they have gotten drastically worse since the move up. I thought I read they were. If not then add Moose Lake back to 7A. Have maybe add Armstrong/Cooper back to 2A and Providence then to 5A to fix the above is the Hilltoppers are stick up in AA even though they have really taken a dive since doing the move.

Took a stab in the dark.... The computer has totally shocked me before 7A is really depleted so Cloquet's plan to get to 5A was blown up by Denfeld and Rock Ridge ironic had CEC just stayed in AA they would have an easier path now... I like the Northlands idea on how to boot the metro but it seems like everyone is on a different page up there.

[elliott70]

So exactly how does the AA class work?

Per MSHSL they top 64 schools are AA.
The opt ups are added.

So, if that number is greater than 64 can the lowest populations elect to drop back????
Right now, the number in AA exceeds 64 and there are 10(???) opt ups. But it is not 64 plus 10 more like 67 or 68 in AA.

[ClassAGuy]

So exactly how does the AA class work?

Per MSHSL they top 64 schools are AA.
The opt ups are added.

So, if that number is greater than 64 can the lowest populations elect to drop back????
Right now, the number in AA exceeds 64 and there are 10(???) opt ups. But it is not 64 plus 10 more like 67 or 68 in AA.

Good point elliott

Many AA teams are there right now?

I know there are situations like Northern Edge. When the Maps were made with North Branch and St Francis separate in Class A they were placed in 4A the following Fall they decided to co-opt and they were then forced up to 7AA adding an additional team and then 4A going from 10 teams to 8 teams.

AA is also messy because when the maps are made there are schools that can be placed in AA but then later appeal to get dropped down to A ... There is a better process but I don't trust MSHSL to care enough to put one in place.

Here is the AA Secitons today

1AA (8)- Lakeville South, Rochester Mayo, Lakeville North, Rochester Century, Hastings, Rochester John Marshall, Owatonna, Farmington
2AA (8)- Minnetonka, Chanhassen, Holy Family Catholic, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Prior Lake, Chaska, Bloomington Jefferson
3AA (7)- STA, CDH, Eastview, Apple Vally/Burnsville, Rosemount, Park Cottage Grove, Eagan
4AA (8)- HM, WBL, Gentry, Roseville, Stillwater, Woodbury, East Ridge, Tartan
5AA (9)- MG, Rogers, Centinnal, CP, Spring Lake Park,Mounds View, Irondale, TG, Osseo
6AA (8)- Edina, Wayzata, BSM, HA, Blake, St Louis Park, Hopkins, Armstrong/Cooper
7AA (10)- Andover, Northern Edge, Blaine, Coon Rapids, East, GR, CEC, DM, Anoka, FL
8AA (9)- Moorhead, Sartell, Bemidji, Roseau, St Cloud, STMA, Brainerd, Buffalo, ER

So they have 3 mores teams then 64... I can explain Northern Edge.... Not sure on the other two that are up

[Upfan111]

I think it's great Denfeld and RR opted up. Would of been great if Hibbing and Proctor have and CEC would of stayed.

Denfeld has low numbers, hope they still have a team in 4 years.

[ClassAGuy]

So exactly how does the AA class work?

Per MSHSL they top 64 schools are AA.
The opt ups are added.

So, if that number is greater than 64 can the lowest populations elect to drop back????
Right now, the number in AA exceeds 64 and there are 10(???) opt ups. But it is not 64 plus 10 more like 67 or 68 in AA.

I looked at MSHSL this morning it is not Top 64 they list it as 1299 and above is AA and 1298 and below A

So it will depend on where the cutoff line will be that solves that.

I do think by DD and RR opting up it may drop the cut off line down instead of up though.

[ClassAGuy]

Fun look at New AA Sections with RR and DD

Here is the AA Secitons For next year draft if the cutoff stays at 1299

1AA (8)- Lakeville South, Rochester Mayo, Lakeville North, Rochester Century, Hastings, Rochester John Marshall, Owatonna, Farmington
2AA (9)- Minnetonka, Chanhassen, Holy Family Catholic, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Prior Lake, Chaska, Bloomington Jefferson, Waconia
3AA (9)- STA, CDH, Eastview, Apple Vally/Burnsville, Park Cottage Grove, Eagan, Woodbury, East Ridge, Rosemount
4AA (9)- HM, WBL, Gentry, Roseville, East Ridge, Tartan, Mounds View, Irondale, TG
5AA (9)- MG, Rogers, Centinnal, CP, Spring Lake Park, Osseo, Blaine, Coon Rapids, Anoka
6AA (8)- Edina, Wayzata, BSM, HA, Blake, St Louis Park, Hopkins, Armstrong/Cooper
7AA (9)- Andover, Northern Edge, East, GR, CEC, DM, FL, DD, RR
8AA (9)- Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau, St Cloud, STMA, Brainerd, Buffalo, ER, Sartell

[ClassAGuy]

Fun look at New AA Sections with RR and DD

Here is the AA Secitons For next year draft if the cutoff stays at 1299

1AA (8)- Lakeville South, Rochester Mayo, Lakeville North, Rochester Century, Hastings, Rochester John Marshall, Owatonna, Farmington
2AA (9)- Minnetonka, Chanhassen, Holy Family Catholic, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Prior Lake, Chaska, Bloomington Jefferson, Waconia
3AA (9)- STA, CDH, Eastview, Apple Vally/Burnsville, Park Cottage Grove, Eagan, Woodbury, East Ridge, Rosemount
4AA (9)- HM, WBL, Gentry, Roseville, East Ridge, Tartan, Mounds View, Irondale, TG
5AA (9)- MG, Rogers, Centinnal, CP, Spring Lake Park, Osseo, Blaine, Coon Rapids, Anoka
6AA (8)- Edina, Wayzata, BSM, HA, Blake, St Louis Park, Hopkins, Armstrong/Cooper
7AA (9)- Andover, Northern Edge, East, GR, CEC, DM, FL, DD, RR
8AA (9)- Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau, St Cloud, STMA, Brainerd, Buffalo, ER, Sartell

If Goldy is correct and John Marshall dies then just add Rosemount to 1AA

[elliott70]

Fun look at New AA Sections with RR and DD

Here is the AA Secitons For next year draft if the cutoff stays at 1299

1AA (8)- Lakeville South, Rochester Mayo, Lakeville North, Rochester Century, Hastings, Rochester John Marshall, Owatonna, Farmington
2AA (9)- Minnetonka, Chanhassen, Holy Family Catholic, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Prior Lake, Chaska, Bloomington Jefferson, Waconia
3AA (9)- STA, CDH, Eastview, Apple Vally/Burnsville, Park Cottage Grove, Eagan, Woodbury, East Ridge, Rosemount
4AA (9)- HM, WBL, Gentry, Roseville, East Ridge, Tartan, Mounds View, Irondale, TG
5AA (9)- MG, Rogers, Centinnal, CP, Spring Lake Park, Osseo, Blaine, Coon Rapids, Anoka
6AA (8)- Edina, Wayzata, BSM, HA, Blake, St Louis Park, Hopkins, Armstrong/Cooper
7AA (9)- Andover, Northern Edge, East, GR, CEC, DM, FL, DD, RR
8AA (9)- Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau, St Cloud, STMA, Brainerd, Buffalo, ER, Sartell

7AA
CEC did not elect to opt up.

[ClassAGuy]

Fun look at New AA Sections with RR and DD

Here is the AA Secitons For next year draft if the cutoff stays at 1299

1AA (8)- Lakeville South, Rochester Mayo, Lakeville North, Rochester Century, Hastings, Rochester John Marshall, Owatonna, Farmington
2AA (9)- Minnetonka, Chanhassen, Holy Family Catholic, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Prior Lake, Chaska, Bloomington Jefferson, Waconia
3AA (9)- STA, CDH, Eastview, Apple Vally/Burnsville, Park Cottage Grove, Eagan, Woodbury, East Ridge, Rosemount
4AA (9)- HM, WBL, Gentry, Roseville, East Ridge, Tartan, Mounds View, Irondale, TG
5AA (9)- MG, Rogers, Centinnal, CP, Spring Lake Park, Osseo, Blaine, Coon Rapids, Anoka
6AA (8)- Edina, Wayzata, BSM, HA, Blake, St Louis Park, Hopkins, Armstrong/Cooper
7AA (9)- Andover, Northern Edge, East, GR, CEC, DM, FL, DD, RR
8AA (9)- Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau, St Cloud, STMA, Brainerd, Buffalo, ER, Sartell

7AA
CEC did not elect to opt up.

Good Catch fixed below (I will put Rosemount in 1AA as fall back if JM is dead) Had East ridge listed Twice fixed that also

1AA (9)- Lakeville South, Rochester Mayo, Lakeville North, Rochester Century, Hastings, Rochester John Marshall, Owatonna, Farmington, Rosemount
2AA (8)- Minnetonka, Chanhassen, Holy Family Catholic, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Prior Lake, Chaska, Bloomington Jefferson
3AA (8)- STA, CDH, Eastview, Apple Vally/Burnsville, Park Cottage Grove, Eagan, Woodbury, East Ridge
4AA (8)- HM, WBL, Gentry, Roseville, Tartan, Mounds View, Irondale, TG
5AA (8)- MG, Rogers, Centinnal, CP, Spring Lake Park, Osseo, Blaine, Coon Rapids
6AA (8)- Edina, Wayzata, BSM, HA, Blake, St Louis Park, Hopkins, Armstrong/Cooper
7AA (9)- Andover, Northern Edge, East, GR, Anoka, DM, FL, DD, RR
8AA (9)- Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau, St Cloud, STMA, Brainerd, Buffalo, ER, Sartell

[Schotzy]

7A- (10) Hermantown, Hibbing, Cloquet, Duluth Marshall, Greenway, Proctor, International Falls, North Shore, Ely, Stella Maris

Did DM drop down to A?

Was assuming their program was dropping back to Class A as the opt up has been terrible to their program and they have been through like 3 coaches since RIP Flaherty hatched the idea of maybe getting more elite kids because AA did not pan out may have caused the opposite, as they have gotten drastically worse since the move up. I thought I read they were. If not then add Moose Lake back to 7A. Have maybe add Armstrong/Cooper back to 2A and Providence then to 5A to fix the above is the Hilltoppers are stick up in AA even though they have really taken a dive since doing the move.

Took a stab in the dark.... The computer has totally shocked me before 7A is really depleted so Cloquet's plan to get to 5A was blown up by Denfeld and Rock Ridge ironic had CEC just stayed in AA they would have an easier path now... I like the Northlands idea on how to boot the metro but it seems like everyone is on a different page up there.

Duluth Marshall has not made a decision to opt back down to A. Despite arguments about how moving to AA has "backfired", which I do not attribute that move to their last four years, but more to the lack of consistency in coaching. There is not real convincing argument, to me, to move back down to single A. Marshall has the advantage of being a private and can draw from anywhere. If they can gain some consistency behind the bench, find ways to draw in some talent from the area, and begin to build some momentum, it only makes sense for them to stay in AA. I think it is still too early to make any calls on this being a "failed experiment". Coach Flaherty's loss was an incredible blow. He ran that entire program. The AD was not prepared to deal with hockey, it showed, and some glaringly bad decisions were made. They have a decent coach in place right now. He is local, has ties to the community, and if he can stand a few more years of building, will be fine.

*I have two sons that play/played for the Toppers. One played for Flaherty, the other is on the current roster. I'd like to see them stay AA. Just my opinion. For what it is worth, I would love it if CEC stayed in AA too.

[ClassAGuy]

Did DM drop down to A?

Was assuming their program was dropping back to Class A as the opt up has been terrible to their program and they have been through like 3 coaches since RIP Flaherty hatched the idea of maybe getting more elite kids because AA did not pan out may have caused the opposite, as they have gotten drastically worse since the move up. I thought I read they were. If not then add Moose Lake back to 7A. Have maybe add Armstrong/Cooper back to 2A and Providence then to 5A to fix the above is the Hilltoppers are stick up in AA even though they have really taken a dive since doing the move.

Took a stab in the dark.... The computer has totally shocked me before 7A is really depleted so Cloquet's plan to get to 5A was blown up by Denfeld and Rock Ridge ironic had CEC just stayed in AA they would have an easier path now... I like the Northlands idea on how to boot the metro but it seems like everyone is on a different page up there.

Duluth Marshall has not made a decision to opt back down to A. Despite arguments about how moving to AA has "backfired", which I do not attribute that move to their last four years, but more to the lack of consistency in coaching. There is not real convincing argument, to me, to move back down to single A. Marshall has the advantage of being a private and can draw from anywhere. If they can gain some consistency behind the bench, find ways to draw in some talent from the area, and begin to build some momentum, it only makes sense for them to stay in AA. I think it is still too early to make any calls on this being a "failed experiment". Coach Flaherty's loss was an incredible blow. He ran that entire program. The AD was not prepared to deal with hockey, it showed, and some glaringly bad decisions were made. They have a decent coach in place right now. He is local, has ties to the community, and if he can stand a few more years of building, will be fine.

*I have two sons that play/played for the Toppers. One played for Flaherty, the other is on the current roster. I'd like to see them stay AA. Just my opinion. For what it is worth, I would love it if CEC stayed in AA too.

Good info Schotzy

RIP Coach Flaherty I do believe with him at the helm they could of made it work at AA. They may have to stay AA now as the moves may kind of forces them too in the effort to get kids. I kept them in the 7AA section looking forward.

If DM stays up and with the addition of DD and RR and the subtraction of CEC

I think Blaine and Coon Rapids bump back to 5AA and possibly Anoka... However, will need more "northern" teams to opt up in the future for them to remove Andover.