U15

[zambonidriver]

Zamboni, where is Ryan playing U15 this year? I'm sad St. Paul didn't keep the band together for a run at 15s. That was a phenomenal team your daughter was a part of last year.

Do you think those St. Paul girls will end up at CDH?

Ryan and Dolan are playing U15 at Eagan, Zieglar is U15 at Cottage Grove, Killian is at Sibley, Karelitz Varsity St. Paul Blades, Bishop, JV United, LaVelle JV Holy Angels, Murphy and McQuillen did not skate this year. The worst part about the St. Paul mess was it could have been avoided if the powers that be would have at least taken girls hockey somewhat seriously. Girls Hockey in St.Paul is viewed more of a compliance thing than an opportunity to grow the game and the way the girls were treated was a little worse than most associations. Again IMHO.
The board decided to move in a different direction with regards to coaching and philosophy. The board would have never allowed that group to stay together.

How did they compare to WBL? Same issues or different issues?

Totally different White Bear on the girls side was corrupt. A clique of about 8 people got clapper in and ran the girls program through him. We were not the only family with a beef. When we saw what was going to happen about half way through the first year of 10's, to my wife's credit she saw what was going to happen well before me she wanted to move out before the 2nd year of 10's. I was the one who wanted to stay, misguided loyalty to a town I never grew up in. That being said, the writing was on the wall in St. Paul started the summer before our last year of U-12's. The board for some reason tried to find a new coach. The whole reason we moved to St. Paul was because EZ was the coach he started the Edina Girls Hockey program and he knows how to coach girls. My daughter always says he is the best coach she has ever had. Never yells at the kids always teaching on the bench willing to make the tough decision. I digress, he was rehired because the board could not find anyone else to hire and they looked hard. We knew that he would probably not be the coach after the U-12 season. As a matter of fact we were looking for different options to figure out how to at least keep the core together some how. Every idea we looked at we hit some sort of snag. When we talked to the board the said wait it will work itself out. We then thought D2 had fixed it by going A-B but the board screwed that up by saying they would have 2 equal teams which we proposed a 2nd year team and a first year team which of course was turned down. The reason we moved was contrary to what Northwoods thinks, there was probably going to be 6 goalies spread between 2 teams. My daughter has no problem sharing the net she is actually really good friends with the girl who she played with last year. But 3 goalies on a team....

[zambonidriver]

The problem with political groups and that is what all sports associations are is they always think they need to fix something. In another life I was a really successful football coach and an AD. I learned this one lesson doing both. If it ain't broke don't fix it unless some unforeseen consequence arises. People struggle with success.

[Mavs]

Did someone on the board's kid get cut by EZ? That makes zero sense to try for two years to get rid of a great coach? Even if one idiot suggests this, how in the world does the rest of the board agree?

Hockey boards can be as political as any organization, no doubt about it.

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

Ryan and Dolan are playing U15 at Eagan, Zieglar is U15 at Cottage Grove, Killian is at Sibley, Karelitz Varsity St. Paul Blades, Bishop, JV United, LaVelle JV Holy Angels, Murphy and McQuillen did not skate this year. The worst part about the St. Paul mess was it could have been avoided if the powers that be would have at least taken girls hockey somewhat seriously. Girls Hockey in St.Paul is viewed more of a compliance thing than an opportunity to grow the game and the way the girls were treated was a little worse than most associations. Again IMHO.
The board decided to move in a different direction with regards to coaching and philosophy. The board would have never allowed that group to stay together.

How did they compare to WBL? Same issues or different issues?

Totally different White Bear on the girls side was corrupt. A clique of about 8 people got clapper in and ran the girls program through him. We were not the only family with a beef. When we saw what was going to happen about half way through the first year of 10's, to my wife's credit she saw what was going to happen well before me she wanted to move out before the 2nd year of 10's. I was the one who wanted to stay, misguided loyalty to a town I never grew up in. That being said, the writing was on the wall in St. Paul started the summer before our last year of U-12's. The board for some reason tried to find a new coach. The whole reason we moved to St. Paul was because EZ was the coach he started the Edina Girls Hockey program and he knows how to coach girls. My daughter always says he is the best coach she has ever had. Never yells at the kids always teaching on the bench willing to make the tough decision. I digress, he was rehired because the board could not find anyone else to hire and they looked hard. We knew that he would probably not be the coach after the U-12 season. As a matter of fact we were looking for different options to figure out how to at least keep the core together some how. Every idea we looked at we hit some sort of snag. When we talked to the board the said wait it will work itself out. We then thought D2 had fixed it by going A-B but the board screwed that up by saying they would have 2 equal teams which we proposed a 2nd year team and a first year team which of course was turned down. The reason we moved was contrary to what Northwoods thinks, there was probably going to be 6 goalies spread between 2 teams. My daughter has no problem sharing the net she is actually really good friends with the girl who she played with last year. But 3 goalies on a team....

Ahh, thanks for clarifying.

I had no idea why you left one program for another, whether it be association or AAA. My questions were rhetorical. There were probably many reasons for each move and what ever they were, that is your business. I would think or hope that you looked at all the options, took the info you had at the time and made a decision based on what you considered to be the best thing for your daughter.

When the conversation started, it was apparent or at the very least, it appeared as if you were questioning and then disapproving of a move from one program to another. It seemed very hypocritical, especially since you have a pattern of doing the same thing. The reason of "why", were not important to my point.

[zambonidriver]

Did someone on the board's kid get cut by EZ? That makes zero sense to try for two years to get rid of a great coach? Even if one idiot suggests this, how in the world does the rest of the board agree?

Hockey boards can be as political as any organization, no doubt about it.

No not really The problem with St. Paul is they like to think of themselves as eclectic. So they kind of had a group hug idea with regards to the girls program. What you had was a very well respected person running a very good team in an organization that was covertly sexist having huge success with a game of parents that were either not knowledgeable or to knowledgeable about the game. As with group you also had some people who were friendly to his face while they were stabbing him in the back. With that group you had two girls who would do anything to win a game. One pure goal scorer who when she wanted to could take the game over all by herself. Northwoods knows this first hand as she went off for 5 in the region tournament and a 4th who could have been really good but was more interested in causing drama. EZ handled all of the perfectly.

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

Did someone on the board's kid get cut by EZ? That makes zero sense to try for two years to get rid of a great coach? Even if one idiot suggests this, how in the world does the rest of the board agree?

Hockey boards can be as political as any organization, no doubt about it.

No not really The problem with St. Paul is they like to think of themselves as eclectic. So they kind of had a group hug idea with regards to the girls program. What you had was a very well respected person running a very good team in an organization that was covertly sexist having huge success with a game of parents that were either not knowledgeable or to knowledgeable about the game. As with group you also had some people who were friendly to his face while they were stabbing him in the back. With that group you had two girls who would do anything to win a game. One pure goal scorer who when she wanted to could take the game over all by herself. Northwoods knows this first hand as she went off for 5 in the region tournament and a 4th who could have been really good but was more interested in causing drama. EZ handled all of the perfectly.

Yes!!! very impressive performance!

[zambonidriver]

How did they compare to WBL? Same issues or different issues?

Totally different White Bear on the girls side was corrupt. A clique of about 8 people got clapper in and ran the girls program through him. We were not the only family with a beef. When we saw what was going to happen about half way through the first year of 10's, to my wife's credit she saw what was going to happen well before me she wanted to move out before the 2nd year of 10's. I was the one who wanted to stay, misguided loyalty to a town I never grew up in. That being said, the writing was on the wall in St. Paul started the summer before our last year of U-12's. The board for some reason tried to find a new coach. The whole reason we moved to St. Paul was because EZ was the coach he started the Edina Girls Hockey program and he knows how to coach girls. My daughter always says he is the best coach she has ever had. Never yells at the kids always teaching on the bench willing to make the tough decision. I digress, he was rehired because the board could not find anyone else to hire and they looked hard. We knew that he would probably not be the coach after the U-12 season. As a matter of fact we were looking for different options to figure out how to at least keep the core together some how. Every idea we looked at we hit some sort of snag. When we talked to the board the said wait it will work itself out. We then thought D2 had fixed it by going A-B but the board screwed that up by saying they would have 2 equal teams which we proposed a 2nd year team and a first year team which of course was turned down. The reason we moved was contrary to what Northwoods thinks, there was probably going to be 6 goalies spread between 2 teams. My daughter has no problem sharing the net she is actually really good friends with the girl who she played with last year. But 3 goalies on a team....

Ahh, thanks for clarifying.

I had no idea why you left one program for another, whether it be association or AAA. My questions were rhetorical. There were probably many reasons for each move and what ever they were, that is your business. I would think or hope that you looked at all the options, took the info you had at the time and made a decision based on what you considered to be the best thing for your daughter.

When the conversation started, it was apparent or at the very least, it appeared as if you were questioning and then disapproving of a move from one program to another. It seemed very hypocritical, especially since you have a pattern of doing the same thing. The reason of "why", were not important to my point.

So in other words you were trying to be an A-hole. I wouldn't say disapproving just questioning. Remember I didn't post the article that started this conversation. I asked why would you move from a team where you had so much success if your team is going to operate as it did last year and your plans for your team has also been posted other then just say access to futures and prospects. Otherwise I don't understand why you would move. After posting an article of how great your organization is/was. Hypocritical is a subjective term.

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

Totally different White Bear on the girls side was corrupt. A clique of about 8 people got clapper in and ran the girls program through him. We were not the only family with a beef. When we saw what was going to happen about half way through the first year of 10's, to my wife's credit she saw what was going to happen well before me she wanted to move out before the 2nd year of 10's. I was the one who wanted to stay, misguided loyalty to a town I never grew up in. That being said, the writing was on the wall in St. Paul started the summer before our last year of U-12's. The board for some reason tried to find a new coach. The whole reason we moved to St. Paul was because EZ was the coach he started the Edina Girls Hockey program and he knows how to coach girls. My daughter always says he is the best coach she has ever had. Never yells at the kids always teaching on the bench willing to make the tough decision. I digress, he was rehired because the board could not find anyone else to hire and they looked hard. We knew that he would probably not be the coach after the U-12 season. As a matter of fact we were looking for different options to figure out how to at least keep the core together some how. Every idea we looked at we hit some sort of snag. When we talked to the board the said wait it will work itself out. We then thought D2 had fixed it by going A-B but the board screwed that up by saying they would have 2 equal teams which we proposed a 2nd year team and a first year team which of course was turned down. The reason we moved was contrary to what Northwoods thinks, there was probably going to be 6 goalies spread between 2 teams. My daughter has no problem sharing the net she is actually really good friends with the girl who she played with last year. But 3 goalies on a team....

Ahh, thanks for clarifying.

I had no idea why you left one program for another, whether it be association or AAA. My questions were rhetorical. There were probably many reasons for each move and what ever they were, that is your business. I would think or hope that you looked at all the options, took the info you had at the time and made a decision based on what you considered to be the best thing for your daughter.

When the conversation started, it was apparent or at the very least, it appeared as if you were questioning and then disapproving of a move from one program to another. It seemed very hypocritical, especially since you have a pattern of doing the same thing. The reason of "why", were not important to my point.

So in other words you were trying to be an A-hole. I wouldn't say disapproving just questioning. Remember I didn't post the article that started this conversation. I asked why would you move from a team where you had so much success if your team is going to operate as it did last year and your plans for your team has also been posted other then just say access to futures and prospects. Otherwise I don't understand why you would move. After posting an article of how great your organization is/was. Hypocritical is a subjective term.

hmmm, no not trying.

I didn't post the article.

I did respond to your post. If you go back and read your post again, your question was not presented as you indicate above.

I provided answers to the reasons why the team would not only consider, but make the move.

I then provided, in question form, examples of a definite pattern of similar behavior, which goes directly to the characteristics of the individual being questioned. Subjective, maybe, but to the definition, Hypocritical non the less.

You missed the point, not a big deal.

As far as disapproving, your follow up posts indicate otherwise.

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

Don't work on systems come up with their own faceoff plays no set lines figure out the power play and penalty kill on there own don't need to be programmed don't need hundreds of hours of ice time just show up and compete. Haven't figured out how to beat the 01 or the 00 but the games have been awesome.

I think one of the most exciting things - at least for me - is exactly what you describe above.

Although it appears like you think this 02 team is all about systems, I would say only about 10% of the total practice time is spent on systems. Could be a higher %, could be lower - that is just my guess. The rest, is all skill work.

Although she is being provided very solid training this winter, my personal opinion on the move this summer is;

I think it is a tremendous opportunity for my daughter and hopefully she gets to train with and skate along side the 01/02 OS players. These players have been training, as you mention above, for a few years now and they are very talented. You heap tremendous praise on the this aspect of OS and I don't blame you. I like it as well. I think having my daughter skate with these OS players, players that are already accustom to this style, will not only benefit my daughter's game, it will benefit it much quicker than it would to start from scratch. Pretty sure it will make her a better hockey player, but more importantly, I am hoping she meets a bunch of young ladies, that love to play hockey as much as her.

[HockeyDude20]

Another successful Detente. We are on a roll.

[zambonidriver]

Don't work on systems come up with their own faceoff plays no set lines figure out the power play and penalty kill on there own don't need to be programmed don't need hundreds of hours of ice time just show up and compete. Haven't figured out how to beat the 01 or the 00 but the games have been awesome.

I think one of the most exiting things - at least for me - is exactly what you describe above.

Although it appears like you think this 02 team is all about systems, I would say only about 10% of the total practice time is spent on systems. Could be a higher %, could be lower - that is just my guess. The other 80%, is all skill work.

Although she is being provided very solid training this winter, my personal opinion on the move this summer is;

I think it is a tremendous opportunity for my daughter and hopefully she gets to train with and skate along side the 01/02 OS players. These players have been training, as you mention above, for a few years now and they are very talented. You heap tremendous praise on the this aspect of OS and I don't blame you. I like it as well. I think having my daughter skate with these OS players, players that are already accustom to this style, will not only benefit my daughter's game, it will benefit it much quicker than it would to start from scratch. Pretty sure it will make her a better hockey player, but more importantly, I am hoping she meets a bunch of young ladies, that love to play hockey as much as her.

She will.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

I would be interested in hearing about the new girls joining the 02 Machine --> O/S Selects team. Are they from other O/S teams? Undoubtedly that team will continue from strength to strength.

Like Northwoods said, most top-level girls find their way to O/S starting at U14. I think the Machine has hurt itself a bit by not catering more to the girls the way O/S and Miracle Gold has. My understanding is the Machine only has multiple girls teams of high quality at the 03 and 06 levels, and, how do we know yet at 06?

You think Miracle Gold should be recognized in the same sentence as OS? Interesting.

[Mavs]

I think its actually kind of cool that it went from a loser leaves town match to hoping they train together and make new friends. The second would be a much bigger deal than being the winner of one game that could go either way and unless it was a blowout, wouldn't mean anything as the other team could easily win the next day in a rematch.

Pounding your chest as the one day champion would be temporary at best.

Maybe they should both go out east and knock off the Boston teams and meet in the championship making Minnesota the real winner and not OS vs Machine. I would rather see this passion become Minnesota vs Nation to carry the torch in girls hockey.

[HockeyDude20]

I think its actually kind of cool that it went from a loser leaves town match to hoping they train together and make new friends. The second would be a much bigger deal than being the winner of one game that could go either way and unless it was a blowout, wouldn't mean anything as the other team could easily win the next day in a rematch.

Pounding your chest as the one day champion would be temporary at best.

Maybe they should both go out east and knock off the Boston teams and meet in the championship making Minnesota the real winner and not OS vs Machine. I would rather see this passion become Minnesota vs Nation to carry the torch in girls hockey.

Amen to that. Let's all sing. Everybody join in...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U ... 3840B4D399

[Mavs]

I think its actually kind of cool that it went from a loser leaves town match to hoping they train together and make new friends. The second would be a much bigger deal than being the winner of one game that could go either way and unless it was a blowout, wouldn't mean anything as the other team could easily win the next day in a rematch.

Pounding your chest as the one day champion would be temporary at best.

Maybe they should both go out east and knock off the Boston teams and meet in the championship making Minnesota the real winner and not OS vs Machine. I would rather see this passion become Minnesota vs Nation to carry the torch in girls hockey.

Amen to that. Let's all sing. Everybody join in...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U ... 3840B4D399

I was 99% sure what the song would be...and I was right.

[jg2112]

I would be interested in hearing about the new girls joining the 02 Machine --> O/S Selects team. Are they from other O/S teams? Undoubtedly that team will continue from strength to strength.

Like Northwoods said, most top-level girls find their way to O/S starting at U14. I think the Machine has hurt itself a bit by not catering more to the girls the way O/S and Miracle Gold has. My understanding is the Machine only has multiple girls teams of high quality at the 03 and 06 levels, and, how do we know yet at 06?

You think Miracle Gold should be recognized in the same sentence as OS? Interesting.

I am not saying that Miracle Gold has the network and infrastructure that O/S does. I think O/S is the premier club for girls hockey. But I do think that Miracle Gold (and the Blades and STE, for that matter) do focus upon and emphasize girls hockey in their organizational strategy and it makes them an attractive AAA option for serious girls players. Just one parent's opinion, and I could be wrong, but it seems the Machine may not have the same organizational focus towards girls hockey as those four clubs.

[zambonidriver]

I would be interested in hearing about the new girls joining the 02 Machine --> O/S Selects team. Are they from other O/S teams? Undoubtedly that team will continue from strength to strength.

Like Northwoods said, most top-level girls find their way to O/S starting at U14. I think the Machine has hurt itself a bit by not catering more to the girls the way O/S and Miracle Gold has. My understanding is the Machine only has multiple girls teams of high quality at the 03 and 06 levels, and, how do we know yet at 06?

You think Miracle Gold should be recognized in the same sentence as OS? Interesting.

I am not saying that Miracle Gold has the network and infrastructure that O/S does. I think O/S is the premier club for girls hockey. But I do think that Miracle Gold (and the Blades and STE, for that matter) do focus upon and emphasize girls hockey in their organizational strategy and it makes them an attractive AAA option for serious girls players. Just one parent's opinion, and I could be wrong, but it seems the Machine may not have the same organizational focus towards girls hockey as those four clubs.

Damn Obama

[NORTHWOODS HOCKEY]

I would be interested in hearing about the new girls joining the 02 Machine --> O/S Selects team. Are they from other O/S teams? Undoubtedly that team will continue from strength to strength.

Like Northwoods said, most top-level girls find their way to O/S starting at U14. I think the Machine has hurt itself a bit by not catering more to the girls the way O/S and Miracle Gold has. My understanding is the Machine only has multiple girls teams of high quality at the 03 and 06 levels, and, how do we know yet at 06?

You think Miracle Gold should be recognized in the same sentence as OS? Interesting.

I am not saying that Miracle Gold has the network and infrastructure that O/S does. I think O/S is the premier club for girls hockey. But I do think that Miracle Gold (and the Blades and STE, for that matter) do focus upon and emphasize girls hockey in their organizational strategy and it makes them an attractive AAA option for serious girls players. Just one parent's opinion, and I could be wrong, but it seems the Machine may not have the same organizational focus towards girls hockey as those four clubs.

My experience with the Made and Machine has been great. I think their Business model is/has been based on a strict training schedule and the development of young players. If you can take out the title of boy's or girl's hockey and go with strictly hockey training - you will receive a pretty good return on your investment. If you go there for girls hockey, you may be disappointed. We got pretty lucky as we had a strong group of players, that happen to be girls, that were there for the training.

The program has "helped" produce a lot of really good hockey players from the area. When he started the Made, I don't believe Girls hockey was even a thought. So Bernie's focus was on the side that brought him the most business. I think Bernie is completely aware of how much the girls side of hockey has grown and how much opportunity for new business there is out there. However, they are up against some really solid competition with OS, MG, STE, IC and probably even Crown. Even though it has grown since the start of the Made - the girls side doesn't have nearly the #s, that the boys side does and certainly not enough to sustain his operation.

I am sure there is focus on the girls side, but from what I can tell, his main focus is continuing to provide the best service he can, to the part of his business, that allows him to do and say whatever he wants:). Who knows, maybe he is comfortable with what he has and doesn't want or need any additional headaches!

[zambonidriver]

His Model for the choice league is growing. What a great option in the winter and it has expanded to the East Side. I love the idea of boys and girls together and teaching hitting a great option to association hockey. In house model just as many games or more than association hockey. Wish I would have known about it 4 years ago.

[jg2112]

Just to clarify - I like MN Made. My daughter is in the Choice League and has done AAA over there too. I believe the program has made my daughter a good player.

What I'm looking at is the fact that at two age groups (2002 and 2004) the Machine girls teams are now gone for the most part. Maybe it was unavoidable.

Regarding Choice / Super Leagues, Zamboni is right. The League is a great winter option.

[cheddar]

I had heard the u15 coaching decision in Saint Paul was related to the fact that last year's u12a coach EZ is also the JV coach at Cretin, the school that many of the St Paul girls hope to join. Is this common that the u15 or 14 coach is also the JV coach? Not clear why "covert sexism" within an association explains why some might wonder if that is a good idea.

[massalsa]

8th graders against 8th grader that way there are no excuses

Whichever team wins the Os grudge match of the century can play a rag tag team of 8th graders that may have been lost in the all the drama. I am guessing that one could put a pretty good line or two together with a bunch of 8th graders that play for neither of those 2 powerhouse squads.

They could just build around a nucleus of kids starting with Olivia Mobley (Hopkins Varsity) and Jenna Hoops (St Paul United Varsity) at Forward and Sophia Doll (Edina U15A) at Defense.

I am sure that there are more kids out there that would like to get in on the fun. If there is trouble getting enough kids the team could pick up a couple of the 8th graders from that 01 Os Selects team that could contribute.

[zambonidriver]

8th graders against 8th grader that way there are no excuses

Whichever team wins the Os grudge match of the century can play a rag tag team of 8th graders that may have been lost in the all the drama. I am guessing that one could put a pretty good line or two together with a bunch of 8th graders that play for neither of those 2 powerhouse squads.

They could just build around a nucleus of kids starting with Olivia Mobley (Hopkins Varsity) and Jenna Hoops (St Paul United Varsity) at Forward and Sophia Doll (Edina U15A) at Defense.

I am sure that there are more kids out there that would like to get in on the fun. If there is trouble getting enough kids the team could pick up a couple of the 8th graders from that 01 Os Selects team that could contribute.

Doll and hoops are playing with the 01-02 selects this year. will be interested to see where Mobley and Rock play this year Really good players.

[Mavs]

8th graders against 8th grader that way there are no excuses

Whichever team wins the Os grudge match of the century can play a rag tag team of 8th graders that may have been lost in the all the drama. I am guessing that one could put a pretty good line or two together with a bunch of 8th graders that play for neither of those 2 powerhouse squads.

They could just build around a nucleus of kids starting with Olivia Mobley (Hopkins Varsity) and Jenna Hoops (St Paul United Varsity) at Forward and Sophia Doll (Edina U15A) at Defense.

I am sure that there are more kids out there that would like to get in on the fun. If there is trouble getting enough kids the team could pick up a couple of the 8th graders from that 01 Os Selects team that could contribute.

No doubt about it, there are plenty of other good players

[Mavs]

8th graders against 8th grader that way there are no excuses

Whichever team wins the Os grudge match of the century can play a rag tag team of 8th graders that may have been lost in the all the drama. I am guessing that one could put a pretty good line or two together with a bunch of 8th graders that play for neither of those 2 powerhouse squads.

They could just build around a nucleus of kids starting with Olivia Mobley (Hopkins Varsity) and Jenna Hoops (St Paul United Varsity) at Forward and Sophia Doll (Edina U15A) at Defense.

I am sure that there are more kids out there that would like to get in on the fun. If there is trouble getting enough kids the team could pick up a couple of the 8th graders from that 01 Os Selects team that could contribute.

Doll and hoops are playing with the 01-02 selects this year. will be interested to see where Mobley and Rock play this year Really good players.

Expanding the roster or are kids leaving?