Section Winners and upsets

[moosepaw]

1A Albert Lea
2A Mound Westonka
3A Mankato East
4A Gentry
5A Breck
6A Willmar
7A ProctorHermantown
8A Warroad


1AA Farmington
2AA Holy Family
3AA East View
4AA Hill Murray
5AA Centenial
6AA Edina
7AA Andover
8AA Roseau

[jg2112]

My predictions:

1A Rochester Lourdes
2A Mound Westonka
3A Luverne
4A Gentry
5A Chisago
6A Willmar
7A Proctor Hermantown
8A Warroad

Seeds at State: 1 - Proctor/Hermantown; 2 - Gentry; 3 - Warroad; 4 - Chisago; 5 - Mound Westonka

1AA Lakeville South
2AA Tonka
3AA Eastview
4AA Stillwater
5AA Maple Grove
6AA Edina
7AA Andover
8AA Roseau

Seeds at State: 1 - Andover; 2 - Edina; 3 - Tonka; 4 - Stillwater; 5 - Maple Grove

[Eagles93]

1A Rochester Lourdes
2A Mound Westonka
3A Luverne
4A South St Paul
5A Chisago Lakes
6A River Lakes
7A Proctor/Hermantown
8A Warroad

Seeds: 1 Proctor/Hermantown; 2 Warroad; 3 Chisago Lakes; 4 Mound Westonka; 5 South St Paul

1AA Lakeville South
2AA Minnetonka
3AA Burnsville
4AA Hill-Murray
5AA Centennial
6AA Edina
7AA Andover
8AA Alexandria

Seeds: 1 Andover; 2 Edina; 3 Minnetonka; 4 Hill-Murray; 5 Burnsville

[slowD]

It is interesting to see people ranking P/H #1 for state tournament seedings. I am curious how you guys would rank them over SSP/Gentry, Chisago/Breck, and Warroad. Because of the undefeated season? I know what the KRACH rankings say, but I have a tough time believing any of the other top 4 teams don't have a very legit argument that they should be seeded higher than P/H. Tough to prove they should be ranked above the winner of section 4,5 or 8 when you compare schedules. Gentry sitting at 15-2 with their only losses coming from SSP and 2A Stillwater both by a goal and Warroad sitting at 17-1 with their only loss to Gentry 3-1. And no matter how Breck has faired in their regular season they are still the 3 time defending champs until someone beats them. I think section 5A will be a dogfight with Minneapolis and Orono both possible of an upset win. It is always tougher to beat a team the second time and that is what Chisago will have to do if they Breck in the semis.

1A - Albert Lea
2A - M/W
3A - Luverne
4A - Gentry
5A - Breck
6A - Willmar
7A - P/H
8A - Warroad

Seeds: 1 Gentry, 2 Warroad, 3 Breck, 4 P/H, 5 M/W

1AA - Lakeville South
2AA - Minnetonka
3AA - Eastview
4AA - Stillwater
5AA - Maple Grove
6AA - Edina
7AA - Andover
8AA - Roseau

Seeds: 1 Edina, 2 Andover, 3 Minnetonka, 4 MG, 5 Stillwater

[Eagles93]

I agree that Proctor/Hermantown isn't the favorite in class A, I just feel that the coaches would seed an undefeated team first. Realistically they probably deserve a 4 seed after Warroad, Chisago, and Gentry/SSP.

As for Breck, I think we learned that they are nowhere near as good as the last three years. They played about as tough of a schedule as you'll find, but ultimately they ended up with three solid wins. (Blake x2, SSP.) I'm not bashing them, I just don't see them knocking off Chisago Lakes.

[bodyup88]

The Mirage are legit and they have no control of their schedule in this Covid world. They have 9 players with 20 or more points and a solid tandem of goalies. Take them lightly at your peril.

[bodyup88]

With respect to Breck you can say what you want about their schedule, but the bottom line is they've won once since Valentine's Day and have dropped eight straight since the resignation of Coach Persian and most of his staff. Doesn't look much like seeding material to me. Perhaps they miss the 250 + points by Mobley, Qualley and the Halvorson sisters more than anyone realized.

[Eagles93]

The Mirage are legit and they have no control of their schedule in this Covid world. They have 9 players with 20 or more points and a solid tandem of goalies. Take them lightly at your peril.

I wasn't taking them lightly, we are talking about seeding. Which usually is about the team's body of work. You are correct the Mirage don't control their schedule this year, but they did play the schedule that they did. The other teams have faced much tougher schedules so we have an idea about how good they are. I do think P/H still might end up with the #1 seed simply because they will be undefeated.

As for 9 players with 20 or more points, I'm not trying to take anything away from them but they did put their opponents in running time in over half their games. Stats are going to be inflated on a team like that. But I know this is a good group of players, they've done well at all levels growing up.

[massalsa]

With respect to Breck you can say what you want about their schedule, but the bottom line is they've won once since Valentine's Day and have dropped eight straight since the resignation of Coach Persian and most of his staff. Doesn't look much like seeding material to me. Perhaps they miss the 250 + points by Mobley, Qualley and the Halvorson sisters more than anyone realized.

Breck could still win it all...I am not as in to the HS scene as much this year due to covid and other factors but it will come down to their goal tending due to the fact that they have kids that have the ability to score.

I dont have predictions for all sections at A & AA but feel like Andover is the clear favorite, then Edina (shut down conners line they can be beat...not will but Breck & Blake both had them on the ropes in their last games. Then BSM can certainly beat the Hornet too. Tonka needs tending + scoring both.

Single A my opinion is that it is gonna be Gentry's 1st title to lose. Have not seen them play but have heard from many about them and their abilities.

[jg2112]

I just looked at the Hockey Hub. It's near the end of the second period.

Andover 11 - Princeton 0.

Shots on goal are 78-1.

Somebody tell me why this game had to happen, why Princeton needed to be humiliated like this. Tell me why the people in charge of things can't be flexible, seed the top 64 teams in the State into a serious state tourney, and figure out a consolation tournament for the rest.

Sorry - it's now 14-0, SOG 81-1 ninety seconds into the 3rd. And yes, I see Andover's first line players on the stat sheet in the 3rd period, so they're not calling em off.

[Eagles93]

15-0 Final. SOG 103-1.

[Sparlimb]

I just looked at the Hockey Hub. It's near the end of the second period.

Andover 11 - Princeton 0.

Shots on goal are 78-1.

Somebody tell me why this game had to happen, why Princeton needed to be humiliated like this. Tell me why the people in charge of things can't be flexible, seed the top 64 teams in the State into a serious state tourney, and figure out a consolation tournament for the rest.

Sorry - it's now 14-0, SOG 81-1 ninety seconds into the 3rd. And yes, I see Andover's first line players on the stat sheet in the 3rd period, so they're not calling em off.

So are you saying someone at the MSHSL should know years ahead of time this game is a mismatch? Or are you saying that this week, when they did seedings, that they should have denied Princeton a chance to play in the playoffs? Because those are both dumb. We saw seeding the top 64 teams in 1992 and it led to a 1 win Rosemount team making the Class A championship. That was worse.

[jg2112]

I just looked at the Hockey Hub. It's near the end of the second period.

Andover 11 - Princeton 0.

Shots on goal are 78-1.

Somebody tell me why this game had to happen, why Princeton needed to be humiliated like this. Tell me why the people in charge of things can't be flexible, seed the top 64 teams in the State into a serious state tourney, and figure out a consolation tournament for the rest.

Sorry - it's now 14-0, SOG 81-1 ninety seconds into the 3rd. And yes, I see Andover's first line players on the stat sheet in the 3rd period, so they're not calling em off.

So are you saying someone at the MSHSL should know years ahead of time this game is a mismatch? Or are you saying that this week, when they did seedings, that they should have denied Princeton a chance to play in the playoffs? Because those are both dumb. We saw seeding the top 64 teams in 1992 and it led to a 1 win Rosemount team making the Class A championship. That was worse.

I'm not saying either of those things.

School administrators have been agile enough to cancel and reschedule games on 24-48 hours' notice this season across all sports. Are we claiming the MSHSL isn't agile enough to download the KRACH rankings and create a postseason tournament that is potentially more competitive than the nonsense we saw last night, where 16 of the 43 games ended in running time?

[Cookster]

Ep beats Chaska Chan 1-0. Double OT.

I believe a shot went in and out of the net for CC early in the 5th period (2nd OT), but there was no goal judge and 3 minutes later EP scores. Very Even game -- Ep can't score, but they also don't give up many. Now EP faces Holy Family, which beat New Prague 9-0

[Upfan111]

15-0 Final. SOG 103-1.

That is unbelievable. Why would Andover coaches keep the 1st line players out like that?

[Sparlimb]

I just looked at the Hockey Hub. It's near the end of the second period.

Andover 11 - Princeton 0.

Shots on goal are 78-1.

Somebody tell me why this game had to happen, why Princeton needed to be humiliated like this. Tell me why the people in charge of things can't be flexible, seed the top 64 teams in the State into a serious state tourney, and figure out a consolation tournament for the rest.

Sorry - it's now 14-0, SOG 81-1 ninety seconds into the 3rd. And yes, I see Andover's first line players on the stat sheet in the 3rd period, so they're not calling em off.

So are you saying someone at the MSHSL should know years ahead of time this game is a mismatch? Or are you saying that this week, when they did seedings, that they should have denied Princeton a chance to play in the playoffs? Because those are both dumb. We saw seeding the top 64 teams in 1992 and it led to a 1 win Rosemount team making the Class A championship. That was worse.

I'm not saying either of those things.

School administrators have been agile enough to cancel and reschedule games on 24-48 hours' notice this season across all sports. Are we claiming the MSHSL isn't agile enough to download the KRACH rankings and create a postseason tournament that is potentially more competitive than the nonsense we saw last night, where 16 of the 43 games ended in running time?

What if Princeton wanted to play the game. Would it be fine then?

[jg2112]

So are you saying someone at the MSHSL should know years ahead of time this game is a mismatch? Or are you saying that this week, when they did seedings, that they should have denied Princeton a chance to play in the playoffs? Because those are both dumb. We saw seeding the top 64 teams in 1992 and it led to a 1 win Rosemount team making the Class A championship. That was worse.

I'm not saying either of those things.

School administrators have been agile enough to cancel and reschedule games on 24-48 hours' notice this season across all sports. Are we claiming the MSHSL isn't agile enough to download the KRACH rankings and create a postseason tournament that is potentially more competitive than the nonsense we saw last night, where 16 of the 43 games ended in running time?

What if Princeton wanted to play the game. Would it be fine then?

We make merit-based tournament decisions based on whether the teams want to play?

I'm not saying these teams should be precluded from playing. I'm saying they should be placed in a situation where they have a chance of competing. Not winning, but competing. Think of what a game with a 101 shot differential looks like.

Andover skews the field, as I don't think any team in their section has a chance of avoiding running time. However, Princeton was 0-17-1. Their best player is on a Tier 1 team. There's no reason they should have competed in a top-level playoff structure this year.

The MSHSL's mission should be to create a product people not related to the competitors want to watch and pay money to see. They need to do this for the sake of their budget. The best way to do this, specific to the realities of girls' hockey, is to create a merit-based postseason tournament.

[Eagles93]

Merit-based would never be implemented. I don't disagree with you, it's just way too radical for the MSHSL. Three classes in girls hockey would, however, solve this, along with other issues. Top 32(?) enrollments plus opt-ups for class 3A. No private schools in 1A. Many other sports in MSHSL has at least 3 classes, why not hockey?

Top 32, after quick research would be, I believe:
Anoka
Armstrong/Cooper (Let them opt down)
Blaine
Brainerd/Little Falls
Buffalo
Burnsville
Centennial
Champlin/Coon Rapids
Chaska/Chanhassen
Eagan
East Ridge
Eastview
Eden Prairie
Edina
Farmington
Forest Lake
Hopkins
Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Maple Grove
Minnetonka
Mounds View
North Wright County
Osseo/Park Center
Prior Lake
Rosemount
Roseville
Shakopee
Stillwater
Wayzata
White Bear Lake
Woodbury

Would opt up, I assume:
Andover
Blake
BSM
Cretin-DH
Hill-Murray
Holy Family

Maybe opt up?
Elk River
Moorhead
Grand Rapids/Greenway
Roseau

That would be a fun 40ish team tournament.

[Eagles93]

To expand further, four sections, top two in each section advance to state tourney. (Similar to football, I believe.)

I grouped these by geography (NOT merit), this could obviously be tweaked a bit.
I assumed all opt-ups I mentioned above.
Seeded by KRACH ranking.
Play-in rounds 7 vs 10 and 8 vs 9.

Section 1:
1 Andover
2 Forest Lake
3 Roseau
4 Brainerd/Little Falls
5 Moorhead
6 Grand Rapids/Greenway
7 North Wright County
8 Elk River
9 Champlin/Coon Rapids
10 Anoka

Section 2:
1 BSM
2 Roseville
3 Cretin-DH
4 Mounds View
5 Maple Grove
6 Centennial
7 Blaine
8 White Bear Lake
9 Buffalo
10 Osseo/Park Center

Section 3:
1 Edina
2 Minnetonka
3 Wayzata
4 Holy Family
5 Blake
6 Eden Prairie
7 Shakopee
8 Chaska/Chanhassen
9 Hopkins
10 Prior Lake

Section 4:
1 Stillwater
2 Hill-Murray
3 East Ridge
4 Burnsville
5 Lakeville South
6 Eastview
7 Rosemount
8 Farmington
9 Woodbury
10 Lakeville North
11 Eagan

[BSUBeaver]

Merit-based would never be implemented. I don't disagree with you, it's just way too radical for the MSHSL. Three classes in girls hockey would, however, solve this, along with other issues. Top 32(?) enrollments plus opt-ups for class 3A. No private schools in 1A. Many other sports in MSHSL has at least 3 classes, why not hockey?

How many girls hockey programs are there compared to wrestling, baseball and softball (I think, off the top of my head, those are the only sports currently at three state tournaments)?

[BSUBeaver]

Merit-based would never be implemented. I don't disagree with you, it's just way too radical for the MSHSL. Three classes in girls hockey would, however, solve this, along with other issues. Top 32(?) enrollments plus opt-ups for class 3A. No private schools in 1A. Many other sports in MSHSL has at least 3 classes, why not hockey?

How many girls hockey programs are there compared to wrestling, baseball and softball (I think, off the top of my head, those are the only sports currently at three state tournaments)?

So I just did a quick check. According to Minnesota Scores.net, there are:

114 Girls Hockey programs in two classes (57 average)
237 Wrestling programs in three classes (79 average)
362 Softball Programs in 4 classes (90 average)
364 Baseball Programs in 4 classes (91 average)

it looks like you would probably need around 235 girls hockey programs to get to three classes if the ratios stay consistent.

[Eagles93]

Good point, I didn't consider that. The ratios are all over the board though so I'm not sure the number of classes necessarily correlates to number of teams. In addition to the sports you listed:

404 Volleyball programs in three classes (135 average)
351 Football programs in seven classes (50 average)

[Green and White Fan]

Why are there not goal judges, especially for playoffs? We have goal judges for every boys and girls game all season long?

[SECoach]

I'm not saying either of those things.

School administrators have been agile enough to cancel and reschedule games on 24-48 hours' notice this season across all sports. Are we claiming the MSHSL isn't agile enough to download the KRACH rankings and create a postseason tournament that is potentially more competitive than the nonsense we saw last night, where 16 of the 43 games ended in running time?

What if Princeton wanted to play the game. Would it be fine then?

We make merit-based tournament decisions based on whether the teams want to play?

I'm not saying these teams should be precluded from playing. I'm saying they should be placed in a situation where they have a chance of competing. Not winning, but competing. Think of what a game with a 101 shot differential looks like.

Andover skews the field, as I don't think any team in their section has a chance of avoiding running time. However, Princeton was 0-17-1. Their best player is on a Tier 1 team. There's no reason they should have competed in a top-level playoff structure this year.

The MSHSL's mission should be to create a product people not related to the competitors want to watch and pay money to see. They need to do this for the sake of their budget. The best way to do this, specific to the realities of girls' hockey, is to create a merit-based postseason tournament.

The stated mission of the MSHSL is:
The Minnesota State High School League provides educational opportunities for students through interscholastic athletics and fine arts programs, and provides leadership and support for member schools. Education and Leadership for a Lifetime

You may find the NHL has a mission more fitting of your wishes. I submit the Andover/Princeton game had plenty of teaching/learning opportunities and fully meets the mission of the MSHSL

[jg2112]

Yeah. The most important lesson any talented Princeton 8th grader took from last night's game was that, if she wants to win any Section games the next four years, she needs to open enroll to Andover.