Section Hypocrisy

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bodyup88
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Section Hypocrisy

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:48 am

There will be 16 section final games played by tomorrow night (Friday Feb 15). Three of those final games have been played - congratulations to Mankato East, Proctor/Hermantown and East Ridge on winning your way into the state tournament.

In 14 of those final games, the section powers that be felt it important enough to the integrity of the event to have the final games at neutral sites. In fact, it was so important that, in some cases

Section 8A has Warroad and Thief River Falls traveling to Crookston
Section 7A had Duluth Marshall and Proctor/Hermantown heading to Virginia (really??)
Section 6A has Fergus Falls and Alexandria playing in Willmar
Section 2A is sending Mound and Hutchinson to Gustavus Adolphus and
Section 8AA has Brainerd and North Wright County playing in Alexandria (not St. Cloud or Sartell?)

And yet, with all of these sections sending teams hours away to get to neutral sites Section 4, in its infinite wisdom, has both South St. Paul in 4A and Hill Murray in 4AA playing all of their games, including the section finals, at home at Woog and Aldrich. Couldn't you have at least flip flopped the two sites? One more reason I believe the MSHSL should step in and take control of this tournament. Someone needs to tell me why neutral sites are important in some sections but not others.

highgloveside
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by highgloveside » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:24 am

Yes you are absolutely correct. They will tell you that because they take down all the banners in the arena it is somehow voila, not a home rink anymore. Never mind the Locker room, every trophy case and the Hill Murray wall of fame. The same reason you could have it at Vadnais Sports center since it is NOT WBL "home rink". There are more than enough rinks to make it truly neutral. They will all tell you to stop complaining but come on! Stop lying to people and ripping off every other team in the section. Aldrich and Woog Arenas are wonderful venues and given the choice of rinks most kids will tell you they love playing there, just not on THE NIGHT where everything matters and it's all on the line and you know your on the other teams home rink.

bodyup88
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:12 pm

Here's an easy solve: Play 4A final at Aldrich and 4AA final at Woog. Of course, that makes too much sense.

bodyup88
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:42 pm

I think section 4A and 4AA open themselves up to huge criticism and, perhaps liability, when all other 14 section finals are at true neutral sites, even if it makes extremely inconvenient to do so. When one does something so drastically different than their peers it begs the question, why are you the only one doing this? You're either smarter than everyone else or.... [-X

nu2hockey
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by nu2hockey » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:53 pm

A little history, 4A & 4AA have only been this way a couple of years...4A was held at St Thomas Academy..then I believe that the venue chose not to have them back..the schools of the section then voted and approved the move...


4AA was at Roseville, the final 2 years there the ice condition was,to put it mildly, atrocious...beyond bad...the schools decided to move to Aldrich...

I would like it if they would flip sites, however, the schools in the sections chose these sites and none of them have complained...

Any complaint from a member school would cause a discussion to move and that hasn't happened...

bodyup88
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:38 pm

Thanks for the background information. I find it fascinating that none of the other 11 teams in 4A/4AA have complained. One might have thought that Simley may have wanted a different venue in their OT loss to SSP recently. Or perhaps WBL may not want to play a third straight section final in the Pioneers building. Can you offer the person to whom complaints can be made and perhaps a coach, AD, principal or superintendent from one of those schools may come forward?

Also, apparently the ice is so bad at Roseville that Section 5AA just decided to move all the games there to the peril of all of their players. It's not like Blaine, Centennial, Maple Grove et al have produced many high end players whose health the administrators may want to protect.

nu2hockey
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by nu2hockey » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:29 pm

Sec 5AA has been: there for awhile...the ice was bad in that it would not dry...I personally saw sec games where the ice never dried for the entire period..syd brodt splashed the glass as if she was water skiing..that, plus scheduling conflicts causing some sec games to be at Stillwater led to the move

bodyup88
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:39 pm

Again, it's good background information but it doesn't change the fact that 4 is the only section that doesn't have a neutral site for the championship game. Irrespective who was slaloming in Roseville four years ago, that doesn't make it right. There is plenty of available ice in the Twin Cities to do this. We are talking about one night per year. Play the first round or two at high seeds if you need to.

nu2hockey
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by nu2hockey » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:43 pm

Like I said, I prefer they change,BUT, the participants don't....

bodyup88
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:55 pm

I'd love to see that poll of coaches and AD's who are all voting to play home games in the championship game for Hill and SSP.

warriors41
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by warriors41 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:05 pm

bodyup88 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:39 pm
Again, it's good background information but it doesn't change the fact that 4 is the only section that doesn't have a neutral site for the championship game. Irrespective who was slaloming in Roseville four years ago, that doesn't make it right. There is plenty of available ice in the Twin Cities to do this. We are talking about one night per year. Play the first round or two at high seeds if you need to.
I’m pretty sure that section 8A does a rotation for their finals. The rotation of hosts includes Warroad, EGF, TRF, and Crookston (for boys they skip Crookston). The fact that it’s at a neutral site this year isn’t intentional.

Eagles93
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by Eagles93 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:54 pm

I have it on good authority that the 4A playoff games will not be at Woog after this year. It's a giant pain in their butt to remove all South St Paul banners in the arena and they don't want to continue to do it every year.

Joe2015
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by Joe2015 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:15 am

So who decides where section games are played? Is it the coaches or what?

Mnnstar
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by Mnnstar » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:48 am

Joe2015 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:15 am
So who decides where section games are played? Is it the coaches or what?
Section AD's decide the Venue's.
Remember before Vadnais was built Aldrich was home to White Bear boys.
The White Bear Sports center does not have the seating for a Section Championship game.
On the boys side the playoffs used to rotate between the coliseum and Aldrich.

highgloveside
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by highgloveside » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:23 pm

nu2hockey wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:53 pm
A little history, 4A & 4AA have only been this way a couple of years...4A was held at St Thomas Academy..then I believe that the venue chose not to have them back..the schools of the section then voted and approved the move...


4AA was at Roseville, the final 2 years there the ice condition was,to put it mildly, atrocious...beyond bad...the schools decided to move to Aldrich...

I would like it if they would flip sites, however, the schools in the sections chose these sites and none of them have complained...

Any complaint from a member school would cause a discussion to move and that hasn't happened...
You have no idea what you're talking about. Every School has had a complaint about it and the powers that be just keep making up excuses. For a section Final you can find an arena that would suffice. That's not an excuse. To say that Roseville arena ice is bad is also a crazy statement. You could have it at Stillwater or Tria just to name a couple.

HockeyStorm
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by HockeyStorm » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:11 pm

7A makes no sense. Used to go back and forth between Duluth and Virginia each year for semi-finals and finals. Now its been in Virginia the last 3 years, and last week Duluth Marshall played Proctor/Hermantown in Virginia. If they are going to keep it up there each year at least have the semifinal games be hosted by the higher seed, they earned it.

nu2hockey
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by nu2hockey » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:42 pm

highgloveside wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:23 pm
nu2hockey wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:53 pm
A little history, 4A & 4AA have only been this way a couple of years...4A was held at St Thomas Academy..then I believe that the venue chose not to have them back..the schools of the section then voted and approved the move...


4AA was at Roseville, the final 2 years there the ice condition was,to put it mildly, atrocious...beyond bad...the schools decided to move to Aldrich...

I would like it if they would flip sites, however, the schools in the sections chose these sites and none of them have complained...

Any complaint from a member school would cause a discussion to move and that hasn't happened...
You have no idea what you're talking about. Every School has had a complaint about it and the powers that be just keep making up excuses. For a section Final you can find an arena that would suffice. That's not an excuse. To say that Roseville arena ice is bad is also a crazy statement. You could have it at Stillwater or Tria just to name a couple.

Hate to break it to you, but, the last year the 4AA girls section games were at Roseville, the ice affected the games. Upon review of the section tourney, and what is most desirable, another issue was the games being split among 3 arenas(roseville,stillwater, and aldrich). there are no valid formal complaints about home ice since all of those arenas are home to sec teams. Another desire to improve the experience was by having the games at one venue. Traditionally, 4AA being made of typically east side teams, the desire was/is to keep the sec tourney on east side.( Irondale was added after ) Another plus is to have an arena with seating on both sides of the sheet. I personally think Richfield would be great,but, doesn't meet the east side. When 2AA was there it was a GREAT place to watch the games. Sec 5AA was already at Roseville, Aldrich meets the requirements and to some degree less a home ice arena than others, plus plenty of parking.


The AD's don't decide the venues , there is a Region 4AA Committee under the MSHSL...the handbook is downloadable and lists our current members

highgloveside
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by highgloveside » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:06 am

Have it at TRIA. East Side, Neutral.. Done!

bodyup88
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by bodyup88 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:58 pm

Agreed. Vadnais works too now that WBL girls play at Sports Center. And stop rationalizing - everyone else in the state plays their finals at neutral sites. Do you think Edina could get away with paying at Braemar??

MNHockeyFan
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by MNHockeyFan » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:14 pm

bodyup88 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:58 pm
Agreed. Vadnais works too now that WBL girls play at Sports Center. And stop rationalizing - everyone else in the state plays their finals at neutral sites. Do you think Edina could get away with paying at Braemar??
Maybe, for years the Duluth East boys team has gotten away with playing its section games at the Heritage Center, even though half the teams in the section are in the greater Metro area.

bodyup88
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by bodyup88 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:45 pm

I can’t soeak to what they’ve done in the past. Quarters are now at high seeds and semis and finals at AMSOIL. I know that’s a point of contention with many

nu2hockey
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Re: Section Hypocrisy

Post by nu2hockey » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:36 pm

Just because you don't like the facts doesn't make it a rationalization...TRIA is a consideration, but many don't like the parking and feel the gate would suffer. Especially with streaming available...Remember, girls hockey has a very limited fan base and many considerations take that into account..VADNAIS now being neutral will garner a look.

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