new facility at Braemar

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warmskin
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new facility at Braemar

Post by warmskin » Wed May 02, 2012 12:11 pm

Any comments on the proposed new training facility at Braemar, the Hornets Nest. There will be varsity locker rooms, a training facility and a pro shop

C-dad
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Post by C-dad » Wed May 02, 2012 2:21 pm

About time.

warmskin
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Post by warmskin » Wed May 02, 2012 2:29 pm

I didn't realize until recently that Braemar has a $300k yearly operating loss and pays another $300k in bond payments. Not sure it makes fiscal sense to put another $3 million in bonds on Braemar when it already has fiscal issues.

DrGaf
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Post by DrGaf » Wed May 02, 2012 3:12 pm

warmskin wrote:I didn't realize until recently that Braemar has a $300k yearly operating loss and pays another $300k in bond payments. Not sure it makes fiscal sense to put another $3 million in bonds on Braemar when it already has fiscal issues.
Well ... at least the Hornette's don't need to order new warm-ups now. That should save a couple bucks.

warmskin
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Post by warmskin » Wed May 02, 2012 4:32 pm

they are proposing putting a surcharge on ice purchased for the Edina High school teams, something the school board doesn't know they agreed to yet.

57special
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Post by 57special » Thu May 03, 2012 8:50 am

warmskin wrote:I didn't realize until recently that Braemar has a $300k yearly operating loss and pays another $300k in bond payments. Not sure it makes fiscal sense to put another $3 million in bonds on Braemar when it already has fiscal issues.

I wonder how many other rinks run at a loss? Is this normal? Agree that any non hockey people (yes they exist in Edina)would find this proposal outrageous in light of the current financial situation. Also, does it make sense to fund a pro shop that would be in direct competition with General Sports and cut into their business?

warmskin
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Post by warmskin » Thu May 03, 2012 9:11 am

With governmental organizations it is often difficult to get real P&L on facilities like ice rinks but my guess is most run at a loss or marginally profitable. If it was a profitable business model you would see more than just one privately funded facility in the Twin Cities. Hockey rinks are a high cost of entry business with high risk and expensive mechanicals.
General Sports and the other usual stores have been enlisted to potentially run the proposed pro shop at Braemar. As they say in retail to be sucessful it is location, location, location and bing in the back of a facility is not a good location. The only pro shops I can think that are at rinks in the Twin Cities (Richfield, Anoka) both have pro shops in the front of the rinks. Most of the local pro shops in town only have 1 store front, it is also known in retail that expanding to a second store has a very low success rate. Yes, the city of Edina seems to agree to every bonding proposal that comes before it. I guess if it is a loan paid over time it is not real money.

goaliewithfoggedglasses
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Post by goaliewithfoggedglasses » Thu May 03, 2012 10:27 am

The EHS Boosters club actually spearheaded this project and obtained about $1 million in private pledges so the bill to the taxpayers is not the full $3 mill. Still a big chunk of change though, I would rather have another rink or at least a refrigerated outdoor sheet.

warmskin
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Post by warmskin » Thu May 03, 2012 10:39 am

The money has been raised verbally but it is closer to 3/4 million dollars.
The $3 million is a guesstimate which will probably go higher as these things usually do. Without architectual plans it is difficult to know the real cost. The other issues are site assesment and issues with HVAC unit behind the west rink. This project has a long way to go besides drawing up floor plans and getting ball part estimates. This will also all have to go out for bid which will take time and the winner could be contested which adds more time. Governmental construction projects take time, gee look at the dome issue.

JDUBBS1280
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Re: new facility at Braemar

Post by JDUBBS1280 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:16 am

warmskin wrote:Any comments on the proposed new training facility at Braemar, the Hornets Nest. There will be varsity locker rooms, a training facility and a pro shop
Love the idea!

almostashappy
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Re: new facility at Braemar

Post by almostashappy » Sun May 06, 2012 8:19 am

warmskin wrote:Any comments on the proposed new training facility at Braemar, the Hornets Nest. There will be varsity locker rooms, a training facility and a pro shop
Article in the Strib fleshes out the story...
http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/150311525.html
The council's resolution incorporated Park Board recommendations requiring...that hockey and figure skating participants pay a $20 annual surcharge for the 20-year life of the bonds that would be sold to finance the project.
Sounds like that dead-in-the-water proposal to finance the State's portion of a Vikings stadium with user fees. I'm assuming that it's only the high school teams using the new locker rooms that are going to be with this annual $20/kid user fee surcharge over the next 20 years?

GoBigorGoHome
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Post by GoBigorGoHome » Sun May 06, 2012 9:20 am

Why do they need the training facility when 1st Athlete is just a few blocks away?

GoBigorGoHome
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Post by GoBigorGoHome » Sun May 06, 2012 9:21 am

Why do they need the training facility when 1st Athlete is just a few blocks away?

57special
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Post by 57special » Sun May 06, 2012 10:31 am

It is desirable to have training facilities in the same building as the ice surface. Also, Edina would have no dibs on the 1st Athlete space, nor would they be able to justify a surcharge on hockey/skating registrations if the proceeds are going to a private company.

Talked to the guys at General Sports, thinking they would be against the idea as it would amount to a public subsidy of a competitor. They actually are all in , as they would hope to be the renter at the new retail store. They did make the point that city hall insists that the retail store be physically separated from Braemar.

The retail space would be smack in the middle of hockey, as well as baseball and soccer fields (golf isn't far away either, but i don't think they would go there?).

Where are they going to find space for these buildings, I wonder? If they go slightly north of the rink it infringes on the soccer field. The site of the old golf dome, maybe?

My question is how much access to the training equipment does the EHA have (as opposed to the Hornets)? If a surcharge is to be paid by everyone who plays EHA then it better be available to all, not just the Hornets.

almostashappy
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Post by almostashappy » Sun May 06, 2012 10:38 am

57special wrote: My question is how much access to the training equipment does the EHA have (as opposed to the Hornets)? If a surcharge is to be paid by everyone who plays EHA then it better be available to all, not just the Hornets.
EHA kids would pay the surcharge as well? Wow, talk about harsh...a kid gets cut from the varsity program, but still has to pay the surchage as a Junior Gold player, to subsidize a locker room that he'll never see?

And they're going after the figure skaters too? I could see charging them a surcharge to help cover the cost of repairing the ice damage from their toe picks, but what would they get out of this deal?

Zamman
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Location: Edina

Post by Zamman » Sun May 06, 2012 3:51 pm

Remember the pro shop at Richfield is privately owned.

warmskin
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Post by warmskin » Sun May 06, 2012 7:53 pm

General Sports would be bastardizing their own sales since they are the dominant hockey store in Edina already. It would be difficult for retail to be successful at Braemar for a variety of reasons and there has also never been a track record of successful retail there. There is no other retail in the area and in retail it is location, location, location. Braemar can be dead as a door nail in the summer and it is difficult for a seasonal business to be successful as a seasonal business. This new pro shop would be in the back of the west arena, not much impulsive buying would happen if it is out of sight. Hattrick at Richfield is rumored to be closing, that arena rents most of its ice to non-Richfield teams since hockey as all but died at Richfield.
Signing a 10 year guaranteed lease would be problematic for any small retailer. Who would shoulder the financial burden if any of these private vendors fail? I talked to 1st Athlete and to duplicate their facility would be at least $500K. That is a pretty steep cost of entry. It would nice to get the other mentioned parties on record on this proposal like EHA, Edina Figure skating and Edina School Board. This proposal has a lot of issues including financing and financial risk. Remember Braemar is already loosing money and my property taxes due this week keep on going up already, thank you no new taxes Republican Party. Also remember all public schools in MN had to take out loans to operate the schools due to the delayed payment from the state, more brilliant politics.

warmskin
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Post by warmskin » Tue May 08, 2012 5:39 pm

Can anybody do the lineage between the various for profit hockey programs in and around Edina and people pushing for this new facility? It appears some of the AAA hockey programs have interest in seeing the Braemar training facility being built because they compete with 1st Athlete and don't want to use it for competitive reasons. I hope the motivation behind building a training facility at Braemar is not so AAA groups competing with 1st Athlete get a facility of their own to compete with 1st Athlete. Competition and capitalism is great but not on the backs of the taxpayers and mite hockey players.

57special
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Post by 57special » Wed May 09, 2012 8:56 am

I think it's all about upgrading the HS hockey/training facilities. Braemar is antiquated in that regard.

Warmskin- General Sports guys feel differently than you about the location. They feel it would be better than what they have now.

I've got nothing against 1st athlete (not a AAA guy), but when approached to work with my PW team they said they didn't do that. ??? OK then, off we went to Velocity and BIG.

warmskin
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Post by warmskin » Wed May 09, 2012 9:06 am

My kids do hockey related training at 1st Athlete so I am not sure what you asked them that they do not do. In the summer they get all kinds of pro and college players in there training. Many of the Edina girls and boys high school players already train at 1st Athlete.
The big problem General Sports has with Braemar is there would be very little storage for them. They have storage in most of the basement under the block where their current store is located. General Sports has an empire of other businesses other than the retail store front.

57special
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Post by 57special » Thu May 10, 2012 8:18 am

They won't work with a team, just individuals, unlike the other facilities mentioned.

warmskin
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Post by warmskin » Thu May 10, 2012 8:50 am

There are teams at 1st Athlete all the time. I just checked and it appears one is coming in tongiht to do turf training. I have no idea what you talked to them about but if you are clearer what you asked 1st Athlete to do I can double check to see what the issue is. My kids use the facility but I have no vested interest in the place. You may have asked for a group or team membership which they may not do. I am not sure how they handle non-MN Made teams that come in to use the facility.

57special
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Post by 57special » Fri May 11, 2012 8:33 am

They Didn't offer a team pkg. like other training facilities but wanted the team to sign up as individuals.

tonkafan77
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Post by tonkafan77 » Tue May 22, 2012 5:53 pm

I don't know about all of you guys, but Braemar's old-school feel is what makes it so special in my opinion. The separating factor between Braemar and most of the other West-metro arenas is the character and atmosphere. Many kids from other schools love playing there because of how different it is from say, Eden Prairie Community Center. I know the proposals don't include much to the arena portion itself, but I hope Braemar's character gets eliminated to large and crazy renovations.

areaman
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Post by areaman » Wed May 23, 2012 1:03 pm

Forget General Sports. They should just open a southern branch of Bunny's and call it a day.

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