Will or Should Jerry Hayes(Apple Valley) Quit?

funky · Post by **funky** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:08 pm

Now that Hudson is leaving and AJ probably right behind him and the loss of Colin Olson. What should be done with the coach? Not bashing here just asking a question that I'm hearing a lot.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:02 am

Didn't they go to state 13 mnths ago?????

chubbs · Post by **chubbs** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:11 am

why would players leaving affect a coach?

breakout · Post by **breakout** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:20 am

chubbs wrote:why would players leaving affect a coach?

Great point.

To the kids, don't be in such a rush. High school hockey is a once in a lifetime event. Stay and play with your buddies.

Great examples of guys staying: Kyle Rau, Nick Bjugstad, Jake Gardiner, Ryan McDonough, Max Everson, Nick Leddy, Zach Budish, etc., etc.

If you are a standout hockey player you will standout and get noticed more in high school than in Jr. or NTDP. In those leagues you will be playing against men and the risk of injuries goes up. The development opportunities are within the high school world. Elite League, USHL before and after and high school hockey.

For those parents that are helping kids make decisions, why push them out the door? You only get a swing at parenting once. For those that say the kid made the decision. That is a cop out. The kid will be involved but he is still a kid. Parents are the guiding light.

Kids, stay in school and have fun! The next level becomes a job. Most pros that played Minnesota High School Hockey will tell you that those were some of the best years of playing hockey in their lives.

O.k., I will get off my soap box now.

Hope all of you have a great day!

AV PUCK 17 · Post by **AV PUCK 17** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:21 am

chubbs wrote:why would players leaving affect a coach?

He won't be leaving....He just won coach of the year last year

EHSHack · Post by **EHSHack** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:23 am

breakout wrote:
chubbs wrote:why would players leaving affect a coach?

Great point.

To the kids, don't be in such a rush. High school hockey is a once in a lifetime event. Stay and play with your buddies.

Great examples of guys staying: Kyle Rau, Nick Bjugstad, Jake Gardiner, Ryan McDonough, Max Everson, Nick Leddy, Zach Budish, etc., etc.

If you are a standout hockey player you will standout and get noticed more in high school than in Jr. or NTDP. In those leagues you will be playing against men and the risk of injuries goes up. The development opportunities are within the high school world. Elite League, USHL before and after and high school hockey.

For those parents that are helping kids make decisions, why push them out the door? You only get a swing at parenting once. For those that say the kid made the decision. That is a cop out. The kid will be involved but he is still a kid. Parents are the guiding light.

Kids, stay in school and have fun! The next level becomes a job. Most pros that played Minnesota High School Hockey will tell you that those were some of the best years of playing hockey in their lives.

O.k., I will get off my soap box now.

Hope all of you have a great day!

It all depends. Kids dont go to the NTDP to get exposure. If you get an offer to the NTDP, I would surmise scouts already know who you are. You go for experience. If Derek Forbort would have stayed at East his senior year, there is no doubt in my mind he would not have gotten better. His ability and size sky rocketed while he was at the NTDP.

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:39 am

I don't think he's talking about NTDP invites.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:21 am

Two things the NTDP can not give a player, SIZE and ABILITY. Derek Forbort quite likely improved in many areas with the NTDP, but moving to Michigan had nothing to do with the above mentioned attributes. Hudson, much like Mr. Forbort already possesses these two qualities. All coaches will tell you.....you can't coach size or ability, they either have it or they don't.

EHSHack · Post by **EHSHack** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:34 pm

keepyourheadup wrote:Two things the NTDP can not give a player, SIZE and ABILITY. Derek Forbort quite likely improved in many areas with the NTDP, but moving to Michigan had nothing to do with the above mentioned attributes. Hudson, much like Mr. Forbort already possesses these two qualities. All coaches will tell you.....you can't coach size or ability, they either have it or they don't.

BS. There was a huge difference in the size Forbort left at and the size he came back at. Was he he taller? No. Was he more built? Absolutely.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:50 pm

breakout wrote:
chubbs wrote:why would players leaving affect a coach?

Great point.

To the kids, don't be in such a rush. High school hockey is a once in a lifetime event. Stay and play with your buddies.

Great examples of guys staying: Kyle Rau, Nick Bjugstad, Jake Gardiner, Ryan McDonough, Max Everson, Nick Leddy, Zach Budish, etc., etc.

If you are a standout hockey player you will standout and get noticed more in high school than in Jr. or NTDP. In those leagues you will be playing against men and the risk of injuries goes up. The development opportunities are within the high school world. Elite League, USHL before and after and high school hockey.

For those parents that are helping kids make decisions, why push them out the door? You only get a swing at parenting once. For those that say the kid made the decision. That is a cop out. The kid will be involved but he is still a kid. Parents are the guiding light.

Kids, stay in school and have fun! The next level becomes a job. Most pros that played Minnesota High School Hockey will tell you that those were some of the best years of playing hockey in their lives.

O.k., I will get off my soap box now.

Hope all of you have a great day!

Except for Bjugstad finished hs early and didn't play his sr yr and went to the U...

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:54 pm

You missed my point, Could he not have done the same thing in Duluth. There is no secret formula (other than steroids) to getting bigger and stronger, its just hard work. What I was getting at is that all players have a physical ceiling that limits what they can become, Derek could have achieved the same results physically in duluth, ann arbor or anywhere else by working hard. The quality coaching and competition are what sets the program apart from high school.

funky · Post by **funky** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:41 pm

I asked this question to get opinons. After reading a few respones. I ask this question. Why are so many kids from a very talented group with alot of success all the way up now leaving or even thinking about leaving(as many as 5 kids could be gone)? Is it the coach? is it being selfish? Is it development?

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:57 pm

It's options. The more talent the kids have the more options they have.

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:18 pm

Funky,

We know of one player leaving AV. Hudson Fasching.

I presume, unless you know otherwise, Colin Olson will have to earn a return invite when they bring all the 17s (94s) in this summer.

Post by **karl(east)** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:36 pm

funky wrote:I asked this question to get opinons. After reading a few respones. I ask this question. Why are so many kids from a very talented group with alot of success all the way up now leaving or even thinking about leaving(as many as 5 kids could be gone)? Is it the coach? is it being selfish? Is it development?

It happens at every big program in the state, even the most successful ones, or the ones that have the "best coaching."

The psychology of it all is very complicated. Usually it's a desire for "better development," whatever that might mean. Coaching (or the player's/parent's perceptions of the coach, whether accurate or not) can play a role, but this is definitely not always the same. No two players have the exact same rationale for leaving; everyone comes to think of their situation in a different way.

There can also be a domino effect; if one leaves, the other two or three talented players on the team might start to wonder what the point is in sticking around, and take off.

Jimbo99 · Post by **Jimbo99** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:53 pm

funky wrote:I asked this question to get opinons. After reading a few respones. I ask this question. Why are so many kids from a very talented group with alot of success all the way up now leaving or even thinking about leaving(as many as 5 kids could be gone)? Is it the coach? is it being selfish? Is it development?

Where talent meets opportunity, things change. There is rarely a large program in the metro that doesn't lose one, two, or more players every year or two. The ones that don't are the exception (E.P. over the past few years). You could even argue that it's GOOD coaching that gets them to the level where they have the options!! I doubt it though.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:01 pm

It would be extremely rare for Colin Olson not to return to the NTDP. This program is sold to young men as a two year commitment so barring some type of break down or misbehavior on the players part I believe all players are invited back.

funky · Post by **funky** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:11 pm

karl(east) wrote:
funky wrote:I asked this question to get opinons. After reading a few respones. I ask this question. Why are so many kids from a very talented group with alot of success all the way up now leaving or even thinking about leaving(as many as 5 kids could be gone)? Is it the coach? is it being selfish? Is it development?
It happens at every big program in the state, even the most successful ones, or the ones that have the "best coaching."

The psychology of it all is very complicated. Usually it's a desire for "better development," whatever that might mean. Coaching (or the player's/parent's perceptions of the coach, whether accurate or not) can play a role, but this is definitely not always the same. No two players have the exact same rationale for leaving; everyone comes to think of their situation in a different way.

There can also be a domino effect; if one leaves, the other two or three talented players on the team might start to wonder what the point is in sticking around, and take off.

This makes sense. Thanks.

breakout · Post by **breakout** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:41 pm

Sats81 wrote:
breakout wrote:
chubbs wrote:why would players leaving affect a coach?

Great point.

To the kids, don't be in such a rush. High school hockey is a once in a lifetime event. Stay and play with your buddies.

Great examples of guys staying: Kyle Rau, Nick Bjugstad, Jake Gardiner, Ryan McDonough, Max Everson, Nick Leddy, Zach Budish, etc., etc.

If you are a standout hockey player you will standout and get noticed more in high school than in Jr. or NTDP. In those leagues you will be playing against men and the risk of injuries goes up. The development opportunities are within the high school world. Elite League, USHL before and after and high school hockey.

For those parents that are helping kids make decisions, why push them out the door? You only get a swing at parenting once. For those that say the kid made the decision. That is a cop out. The kid will be involved but he is still a kid. Parents are the guiding light.

Kids, stay in school and have fun! The next level becomes a job. Most pros that played Minnesota High School Hockey will tell you that those were some of the best years of playing hockey in their lives.

O.k., I will get off my soap box now.

Hope all of you have a great day!
Except for Bjugstad finished hs early and didn't play his sr yr and went to the U...

Young Mr. Bjugstad won the Mr. Hockey award. Seniors can only win Mr. Hockey.

Bjustad accelerated his education. He is a tweener in terms of birth year and grade. For example, Bjugstad is a 92 birth year freshman at the U of M. Budish would be an example of a 91 birth year sophomore at the U of M.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:52 pm

breakout wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
breakout wrote:
Great point.

To the kids, don't be in such a rush. High school hockey is a once in a lifetime event. Stay and play with your buddies.

Great examples of guys staying: Kyle Rau, Nick Bjugstad, Jake Gardiner, Ryan McDonough, Max Everson, Nick Leddy, Zach Budish, etc., etc.

If you are a standout hockey player you will standout and get noticed more in high school than in Jr. or NTDP. In those leagues you will be playing against men and the risk of injuries goes up. The development opportunities are within the high school world. Elite League, USHL before and after and high school hockey.

For those parents that are helping kids make decisions, why push them out the door? You only get a swing at parenting once. For those that say the kid made the decision. That is a cop out. The kid will be involved but he is still a kid. Parents are the guiding light.

Kids, stay in school and have fun! The next level becomes a job. Most pros that played Minnesota High School Hockey will tell you that those were some of the best years of playing hockey in their lives.

O.k., I will get off my soap box now.

Hope all of you have a great day!
Except for Bjugstad finished hs early and didn't play his sr yr and went to the U...
Young Mr. Bjugstad won the Mr. Hockey award. Seniors can only win Mr. Hockey.

Bjustad accelerated his education. He is a tweener in terms of birth year and grade. For example, Bjugstad is a 92 birth year freshman at the U of M. Budish would be an example of a 91 birth year sophomore at the U of M.

Regardless, he was supposed to be a sr in hs this year, not last yr.

EHSHack · Post by **EHSHack** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:13 pm

breakout wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
breakout wrote:
Great point.

To the kids, don't be in such a rush. High school hockey is a once in a lifetime event. Stay and play with your buddies.

Great examples of guys staying: Kyle Rau, Nick Bjugstad, Jake Gardiner, Ryan McDonough, Max Everson, Nick Leddy, Zach Budish, etc., etc.

If you are a standout hockey player you will standout and get noticed more in high school than in Jr. or NTDP. In those leagues you will be playing against men and the risk of injuries goes up. The development opportunities are within the high school world. Elite League, USHL before and after and high school hockey.

For those parents that are helping kids make decisions, why push them out the door? You only get a swing at parenting once. For those that say the kid made the decision. That is a cop out. The kid will be involved but he is still a kid. Parents are the guiding light.

Kids, stay in school and have fun! The next level becomes a job. Most pros that played Minnesota High School Hockey will tell you that those were some of the best years of playing hockey in their lives.

O.k., I will get off my soap box now.

Hope all of you have a great day!
Except for Bjugstad finished hs early and didn't play his sr yr and went to the U...
Young Mr. Bjugstad won the Mr. Hockey award. Seniors can only win Mr. Hockey.

Bjustad accelerated his education. He is a tweener in terms of birth year and grade. For example, Bjugstad is a 92 birth year freshman at the U of M. Budish would be an example of a 91 birth year sophomore at the U of M.

Can someone explain why you would want to do that? Wouldnt you want to go into college the biggest and best you could be? Seems like going really early like Bjugstad could only be counter productive.