Who's not returning in 2011-12?

Older Topics, Not the current discussion

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mnhockey1708
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Post by mnhockey1708 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:17 am

you're playing kids who are future nahl/ushl/d1 players, they are also the kids you will be playing with against this upcoming season. to pass on that to play in a league like the mnjhl is downright stupid. not to mention these kids will not have weekend fun considering they are traveling all the time, they will also be practicing at 6 AM on school days. This is not good for kids. To top it off you're paying thousands of dollars for this. you will not be paying thousands of dollars in elite d league. the mnjhl has it's place, but preparation for elite high school athletes before the high school season is NOT it's place.

rudy
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D

Post by rudy » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:24 am

As for weekends, early ice and $$, i really wasnt asking about that. i'm just asking about what happens on the ice.

OK, so what it boils down to is a matter of a skater playing against/with guys based on what they might accomplish in a few years. I guess that makes sense.

mnhockey1708
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Post by mnhockey1708 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:42 pm

like I said earlier, we should really get back on topic. Anyone have any news??

The Exiled One
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Post by The Exiled One » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:01 pm

Code: Select all

New Departures
Class Pos Player           Previous Team    New Team
JR    F   Hudson Fasching  Apple Valley     U17 NTDP
JR    F   Luke Voltin      Hill-Murray	   U17 NTDP
JR    F   Zach Hartley     Holy Angels      Colorado Rampage AAA 
SR    F   Mario Lucia      Wayzata          Penticton
SR    F   Eric Brenk       Moorhead         Sioux Falls-USHL
SR    F   Josh Erickson    Roseau           Sioux City-USHL
SR    F   AJ Michaelson    Apple Valley     Waterloo-USHL
SR    F   Eric Carlson     Albert Lea       Fairbainks-NAHL
SO    D   Travis Wood      Hill-Murray      Erie-OHL
JR    D   Gage Ausmus      East Grand Forks U17 NTDP
SR    D   Neal Goff        Stillwater       Fargo-USHL
SR    D   Vince Pedrie     Apple Valley     Omaha-USHL
JR    G   Hunter Miska     North Branch     U17 NTDP
SR    G   Charlie Lindgren Lakeville North  Sioux Falls-USHL
Updated to show Pedrie on Omaha's roster.
Last edited by The Exiled One on Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

wblhcky24
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Post by wblhcky24 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:15 pm

Neal Goff Stillwater Fargo Force
2012 pond hockey All Star

stpaul
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Neal Goff

Post by stpaul » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:34 pm

Is Goff going to the USHL for the full year or coming back to Stillwater for the high school season? He would be a big loss for the Ponies. He's a huge D-man at 6-5 and very tough. Stillwater doesn't score much but also didn't give up much with a tough defensive corp. They won a lot of 2-1 games.

Gopher Blog
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Post by Gopher Blog » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:40 pm

Sounds like the plan is for Goff to be there the whole season.

cyclones02
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Post by cyclones02 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:49 pm

Stillwater will be fine without goff, they still return 3 solid D from there playoff roster last year and reinke will make an impact as a soph

Huskiesfan16
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Post by Huskiesfan16 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:15 pm

woodley wrote:Anyone know where Kautz is going next year? Appears he won't be at Odessa, Texas . . . he isn't listed on their final camp roster.
http://nahlodessa.pointstreaksites.com/ ... news_29687
Heard he was petitioning to come back to high school next year? The kid has the talent for the USHL IMO

Neuuman
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Post by Neuuman » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:57 pm

There seems to be a theme on here that finishing high school and playing high school hockey is a giant dead end for a hockey career. It seems, so far, to have worked fairly well for Nick Leddy and Bjugstad. Can you develop faster by "moving on" (to the USHL, NAHL, AAA, etc.), maybe, maybe not, but you can also go from being the "star" to fighting for ice time on the fourth line as a checker, absolutely. On top of that, once you go to a junior team (ushl, nahl, etc.) if you struggle, blow out a knee, whatever, they have no qualms about cutting you and sending you packing. Is High School hockey the same as the USHL? Obviously, no. But, for an 18 year old kid who finishes high school, if he doesn't yet have a scholarship, he has 2 years in juniors to earn one. If, after those 2 years he hasn't yet earned one, well, sorry to say, he probably doesn't belong at the D1 level.

IMHO

Scout716
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Post by Scout716 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:59 am

if a player wishes to play Div 1 College hockey, a High School SR has a better chance of attaining that goal at the NAHL or USHL Level compared to playing another year at the MN high school level. The player has to be mentally and physically ready for such a level, every level a player moves up the competion gets stronger, at that next level they may discover they do not have quite what it takes, attrition happens at every level. Just because a player excels at the MN High school level does not mean they will have continued success at a higher level. approx 5% of MN high school players have the ability (or desire) to play in the NAHL.

TheClipper
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Post by TheClipper » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:45 am

Neuuman and Scout716, both, make very important points. They're saying about the same thing, as well.

As Scout says: The key issue is readiness. If a player is truly physically and emotionally ready to leave the HS game, a jump to the next level is the only move that makes hockey development sense. As he also says, very few HS players are actually ready to do this.

As Neuuman says: The pitfalls of leaving HS too soon are many. If a player isn't ready to immediately and significantly contribute at the next level, staying put is the only sensible option.

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:55 am

Its pretty simple parents - If your kid can play in the ushl, then by all means the kid should go play in the ushl. However, I used the word "play" and I mean make the top 9 F or top 5 D.

If your kid can't make the USHL then keep them in high school. If they are good enough to play college hockey it will happen after their high school career. There are better opportunities for high school kids then skipping your senior year to play NAHL, AAA, etc. A kid can gain leadership, play on the pp and pk, be a big contributor to their program, growing as a young man (committment, dedication, pride, etc.), all conference honors, all state, great 8 festival, etc.

There is nothing wrong with playing through your senior season and then go play NAHL for a few years to mature. I bet this would get kids further then skipping their senior season to go put up 8 points at the NAHL.

Most kids that skip senior season to play in the NAHL will end up playing there a few more years anyways.

keepyourheadup
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Post by keepyourheadup » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:24 pm

You could also make a case that for those kids fortunate enough to earn a scholarship prior to their senior year have a different set of circumstances. These players are likely the most able to play in the USHL right away but it seems a good number of them stay...Camaranisi,Rau, Hendrickson, Bullock are a few examples. It seems pretty clear the motivation in leaving is the pursuit of a scholarship. Great for those that attain their goal but a lot to give up for those that don't.

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:36 pm

And that goal can become reality still after your senior year of high school. All a kid would need to do is pursue their dream after high school. The problem is that parents and advisors are telling these kids a lot of incorrect information. So many parents in the hockey world are living through their kids.

Trust me! If your kid is good enough they will be noticed.

If you have received a scholarship offer already than that is completely different. Those kids need to decide with their future coach what is best for that individual kid.

jackstraw
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?

Post by jackstraw » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:42 pm

My what a broad brush you have!

mulefarm
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Post by mulefarm » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:01 pm

Tigers, agree with most of your thoughts, but what about hs kids switching schools just for hockey? I personally can't stand it, and have more respect for the kids going juniors.

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:32 pm

I agree with you 100%. However, the switching of schools is not as much of an issue as it used to be. With private schools this will always be an issue, but it used to be worse.

russiawithlove
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Post by russiawithlove » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:39 pm

i agree, switching schools for hockey i think is a bit over the top. after reading most of this thread, i completely agree with what rudy has been saying about the mnjhl league compared to the d league. i would say, if u want to suck up to mn hockey and pay around a thousand dollars to play in the d league, then go for it. if you want to play against bigger and stronger players that are more mature and smarter players on the ice and know the game better, u would play in the mnjhl for the same price if u only want to play in the fall with a mnjhl team. if u want to play the whole yr with a mnjhl team, it is only about an extra thousand dollars. mnjhl no brainer imo. also, if u do have a good season in the mj, u will very likely move up to the na the next yr because there are nahl scouts at every single game.

mnhockey1708
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Post by mnhockey1708 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:41 pm

I have to agree with the idea that leaving one high school specifically for the reason of playing hockey is flat out ridiculous. There is so much more that is important about high school besides hockey. friends, educational experience, school dances, etc. are all an important part of high school regardless of whether you play hockey or not, dont deprive high school kids of these things simply for hockey.

hammer99
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Post by hammer99 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:43 pm

mnhockey1708 wrote:I have to agree with the idea that leaving one high school specifically for the reason of playing hockey is flat out ridiculous. There is so much more that is important about high school besides hockey. friends, educational experience, school dances, etc. are all an important part of high school regardless of whether you play hockey or not, dont deprive high school kids of these things simply for hockey.

I have to disagree with the idea of not transfering schools for hockey under any circumstances. If the kid wants to transfer for hockey, and the parents are on board, who has the right to tell them that they can't do what they want?

mnhockey1708
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Post by mnhockey1708 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:47 pm

I seriously doubt there are many kids who would want to switch schools simply because of hockey, especially if they have been in the same school district since they were a kid. It's ridiculous to think that that kid isn't going to want to stay in school with the kids he has grown up going to school with.

hammer99
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Post by hammer99 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:51 pm

mnhockey1708 wrote:I seriously doubt there are many kids who would want to switch schools simply because of hockey, especially if they have been in the same school district since they were a kid. It's ridiculous to think that that kid isn't going to want to stay in school with the kids he has grown up going to school with.


What about the kids who are attending a private school, but have the option to go to the local public school and play on the varsity team rather than stay at the private school and play junior gold? My guess is that kid knows many of the kids who are going to go to the local school, plus he gets to play varsity hockey without paying the tuition of a private high school. Everyone's situation is different, we can't just assume things about the choice that a young man may have to transfer.

mnhockey1708
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Post by mnhockey1708 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:56 pm

Well in this situation the transfer would make a lot of sense, but my position still stands. In almost every situation it is best to stay in the current high school you are attending rather than switching for hockey. Yes, in some cases there may be other factors influencing the situation, but if we are talking about simply hockey reasons than I am fully against the possible transfer.

SWPrez
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Post by SWPrez » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:01 am

mnhockey1708 wrote:I seriously doubt there are many kids who would want to switch schools simply because of hockey, especially if they have been in the same school district since they were a kid. It's ridiculous to think that that kid isn't going to want to stay in school with the kids he has grown up going to school with.
Thirty years ago - with no High school transfer rules in place - I was cut by Edina. I moved to Breck for my senior year solely so that I could play the game I loved. Best move I ever made. Still had my childhood friends, made a bunch of new friends. Also got to play college hockey. Opportunities I wouldn't have had under today's transfer rules.

Three years later, my brother was cut by Edina (I don't think my dad was very good at the sipping cocktails and hanging with the Interlachen guys!). He immediately transfered to Minnetonka. He did this solely to play the game he loved to play. He achieved all-state tourney and was drafted by the Saint Louis Blues. He would not trade the experience and new friends he made in his year as a Skipper.

Hammer99 is spot on. If a kid wants to transfer to a school with a rock solid debate program and coach, be in a top notch music program, be with a girlfriend, play sports, whatever silly reason....it is up to them and their family. Unfortunately, the transfer rules were brought forth to stop 6'10" kids from open enrolling into Hopkins High school. All kids must live under it and it ends more hockey playing careers than saves by restricting movement of kids that just want to play the game.

I do think that every year MN High School hockey loses several players that see NAHL or USHL as a better option than playing in a dead-end program that won't provide them the exposure or skill level to improve (I think South St. Paul had three of them last year alone). Would MN Hockey be better served having those kids transfer and stay in high school, or let them go?

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