Section 1A 2010-2011

Older Topics, Not the current discussion

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BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:24 am

Howie: It's class B hockey. What do you want, base the class on enrollment or population of the city?

The X
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Post by The X » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:46 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:Howie: It's class B hockey. What do you want, base the class on enrollment or population of the city?
BadgerBob, population of city of course. Enrollment is irrelevant in this case and many others in class B hockey. Population is the key when it comes to drawing top notch kids from the area. Would you agree it to be a bit strange when the class A school in town is better than the 3 AA squads? Obviously, the reason for this is because top kids from said AA schools move to the A school for high school. I looked for Lourdes Bantam A stats from last year and could not find any.

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:26 am

Howie: Now you really have me confused. The Class A private schools from the metro area are difficult to assess as their feeder systems are wide spread.

Are you making reference to Class A schools like, Albert Lea, Red Wing, New Prague, New Ulm, etc and making a comparison to Rochester with 1 youth program feeding 4 high schools? If so, I maintain population of the city is irrelevent. Look at the size of the youth program. Rochester has roughly 120 Bantams and 120 Pee-Wees. Straight division would say that is roughly 30 players per high school? Is that similar to the youth programs in other Class A towns?

I looked for the stats on the Hill-Murray, Cretin, St. Thomas, Benilde, Holy Angels, Totino, Blake and Breck Bantam A teams and couldn't find them either?

The X
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Post by The X » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:47 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:Howie: Now you really have me confused. The Class A private schools from the metro area are difficult to assess as their feeder systems are wide spread.

Are you making reference to Class A schools like, Albert Lea, Red Wing, New Prague, New Ulm, etc and making a comparison to Rochester with 1 youth program feeding 4 high schools? If so, I maintain population of the city is irrelevent. Look at the size of the youth program. Rochester has roughly 120 Bantams and 120 Pee-Wees. Straight division would say that is roughly 30 players per high school? Is that similar to the youth programs in other Class A towns?

I looked for the stats on the Hill-Murray, Cretin, St. Thomas, Benilde, Holy Angels, Totino, Blake and Breck Bantam A teams and couldn't find them either?
Bob, as my post states, its the number of quality players in one drawing area. If you have a huge youth program such as Rochester, one of the four teams can stack up because the players are all right down the street from one another. As I stated, the "A" team in town has been the best team for 3 to 4 years now.

Here is an example of just the NP vs. Lourdes area of kids to pick from.

Rochester Youth Association:

Bantam A Teams- 3
Bantam B Teams- 4
Bantam C Teams- 2

Total- 9 Teams with roughly 20 kids per team= 180 players

NP Youth Association

Bantam A Teams- 1
Bantam B Teams- 1
Bantam C Teams- 1

Total- 3 Teams with roughly 15 kids per team= 45 players

Now, my post was intended to raise the question, how is it that the "A" or B team as you call it, is the best team in town 3 years running? Are you saying the 4 teams are equally divided in talent, come on now Bob?
:wink:

BadgerBob82
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Post by BadgerBob82 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:55 pm

Howie:

Again you have me confused as to what is your point?

Your example shows 180 Bantams in Rochester at 20 players per team. I am seeing from the website not 20 player rosters, but 14-16 player rosters. That means about 135 players vs. 45 for New Prague. Your numbers are bad, so use more correct numbers then restate your claim.

I would also question which team is the "best" in Rochester. You are correct that Lourdes is the best Class A team in Rochester.

My point was that if you look at the youth hockey associations feeding the current team at Hill-Murray, one could draw the same connection I think you are making. If public high schools "lose" players that enroll in a "private" school without a hard attendance bounday, it is likely those public schools are now "weaker" than if those players didn't opt out of the public schools for the glory of Class A hockey.

But I agree, smaller towns like New Prague have the benefit of their entire youth program feeding only one high school. Now have that conversation with Roseau and Warroad relating to city population and hockey programs.

Rookie19
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Post by Rookie19 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:11 pm

Howie,

Don't worry about your season will be over on Thursday anyway.
Probably in running time. Maybe you can get together with the hockey moms and make another Class so everyone can make it to state.

The X
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Post by The X » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:56 pm

Rookie19 wrote:Howie,

Don't worry about your season will be over on Thursday anyway.
Probably in running time. Maybe you can get together with the hockey moms and make another Class so everyone can make it to state.
Pretty sure neither Lourdes or NP is my team so not sure what you are referring to? Also, you would not happen to be one of these players that are sandbagging and hiding in class A are you? My team resides at the intersection of Hwy. 2 and 169 about 3.5 hours from the metro. Put us on your schedule next year and come get some. Get back to me in about 3 weeks when you figure that out. :wink:
Last edited by The X on Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hockeydad
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Post by hockeydad » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:12 pm

No, I don't think Howie is from New Prague. He's just someone who doesn't like private schools but enjoys beating a dead horse on this forum from time to time.

Lourdes and New Prague have a good, healthy, respectful rivalry and I'm pretty sure the kids are looking forward to getting the chance to play them with a state tourney berth on the line.

urban iceman
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Post by urban iceman » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:12 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Howie:

Again you have me confused as to what is your point?

Your example shows 180 Bantams in Rochester at 20 players per team. I am seeing from the website not 20 player rosters, but 14-16 player rosters. That means about 135 players vs. 45 for New Prague. Your numbers are bad, so use more correct numbers then restate your claim.

I would also question which team is the "best" in Rochester. You are correct that Lourdes is the best Class A team in Rochester.

My point was that if you look at the youth hockey associations feeding the current team at Hill-Murray, one could draw the same connection I think you are making. If public high schools "lose" players that enroll in a "private" school without a hard attendance bounday, it is likely those public schools are now "weaker" than if those players didn't opt out of the public schools for the glory of Class A hockey.

But I agree, smaller towns like New Prague have the benefit of their entire youth program feeding only one high school. Now have that conversation with Roseau and Warroad relating to city population and hockey programs.
There ARE no other sports in those communities , is there?? LOL

goldy313
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Post by goldy313 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:20 pm

I don't think it's a dead horse.

When you have a youth hockey association that's designed it's top level to funnel kids into 1 class A school. When you have youth hockey board members and coaches continually bad mouthing the public school coaches. When you hear how great Lourdes is year after year and how they're better than any 1AA team yet they won't move up or even play the top teams given what's happening in the youth program. When you have at least 1 public school refuse to play against Lourdes in any sport due to recruiting in hockey. When you have a youth program that complains at every turn about having to play Albert Lea, Austin, Faribault, Mankato, etc. but then in high school plays the poor us, that's just where the MSHSL put us routine by some of the exact same people complaining Mn Hockey put them in District 9.

It's not a dead horse.

I don't hate Lourdes and like their kids and hockey team, it's the adults who act far more childlike than any kid who pulls on a Lourdes sweater.

hockeydad
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Post by hockeydad » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:43 pm

Goldy, I guess the dead horse I was referring to is the perennial private vs. public debate that takes up endless pages on this forum. I don't pretend to know anything about the current state of Rochester sports politics. What I do know was that in the 1980s, when I lived there, Mayo and John Marshall had strong teams in most sports. That isn't the case today, and since it's not just hockey that has suffered, I'm not sure that Lourdes can be the sole source of the downturn in Rochester Public School hockey. Still, I understand what you're saying to a degree. I've always thought an association that supports more than one public school should try to create more opportunities for A level hockey by having an A team for each school. When Eastview HS opened they created their own hockey association and fielded their own teams. I believe Lakeville's association fields two teams - don't know if they are geographically designated north or south or not. Associations like Rochester, Mankato, and maybe Chaska/Chanhassen need to do more to develop more A-level players to support the programs that they feed.

and as for your last sentence... I think you can make that case for many programs around the state... public and private.

The Talon
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Post by The Talon » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:02 pm

Well you knew the Lourdes (private or 4 HS thing) was going to come up at some point, esp when LHS continues to go deeper in the playoffs.

There were lean years at LHS in late 80s-early 90s in the single class system when it was Jm-Mayo-Burnsville in Section 1.

Roch shot themselves in the foot when they expanded to Century in late 90s---they didnt need to do that, otherwise, JM-Mayo would have been competitive this year--so the public school system screwed themselves on this one.

PS-it wasnt just sports as an issue---property taxes keep going up, budget shortfalls, etc, and century is like just over 1100 enrollment--in the 70s-80s, JM and Mayo consistently had 1600-1800 in their schools.

The whole new HS thing was a total bait and switch on voters here, and now the athletic programs among other issues are paying for it.

LHS won state in football, JM sucked, Mayo sucked, and Century got their asses handed to them by Lakeville South..

So, dont be blaming LHS-blame the lame public school system that is failing the kids, the parents, etc---they did this

PeterDenton
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Post by PeterDenton » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:08 pm

Well said Talon i agree completely with where/who the blame should be put toward in this situation

PoNd HocKey ChAmP67
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Post by PoNd HocKey ChAmP67 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:15 pm

.....back to the game for the state tournament birth on the line. I think this game is going to come down to the wire. I was not surprised at all with New Prague handling Albert Lea fairly easily. This game has probably the top two goalies in the section going at it (in Morris and Heimer). Morris and the Trojans have been playing their best hockey lately and are very capable of an upset. New Prague is hard working team and plays a good brand of hockey. They are going to come out hitting, I am really excited for this matchup.

I think Lourdes has also eliminated New Prague the last two seasons, maybe 3? So there is some payback. There games have been close over the last few years but NP has not been able to get over the hump of beating Lourdes. But I think that ends on Thursday. Both teams are not going to hold anything back. It's going to be a great game. Morris is going to have a huge game between the pipes for New Prague and outduel Heimer

New Prague 3
Lourdes 2 (OT)

See everyone down at the Rec Center

GO PUBLIC SCHOOLS! :D

The Talon
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Post by The Talon » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:26 pm

I agree Morris is a greta goal tender and NP plays very physical game, but I dont think they can crack LHS D or their skill & speed

LHS 2-1

PS-I am watching the game with a college buddy from New Prague-should be a fun one-looking forward to a good hockey game

Chalk_Talk
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Post by Chalk_Talk » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:50 pm

This should be a close game. Over the last month or so Rochester has been playing some really good hockey, I don't see how you could pick against them.
*They are playing in their own backyard
*They have been in this game 3 years in a row
*Defense wins champion chips

Good luck to both teams, it will be a good game.

Just a nugget to throw out there. I believe sections are reassigned after this year, is there any chance that Lourdes opts up to AA? That would make some things very interesting in Roch.

clutterbuck22
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Post by clutterbuck22 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:53 pm

The Talon wrote:Well you knew the Lourdes (private or 4 HS thing) was going to come up at some point, esp when LHS continues to go deeper in the playoffs.

There were lean years at LHS in late 80s-early 90s in the single class system when it was Jm-Mayo-Burnsville in Section 1.

Roch shot themselves in the foot when they expanded to Century in late 90s---they didnt need to do that, otherwise, JM-Mayo would have been competitive this year--so the public school system screwed themselves on this one.

PS-it wasnt just sports as an issue---property taxes keep going up, budget shortfalls, etc, and century is like just over 1100 enrollment--in the 70s-80s, JM and Mayo consistently had 1600-1800 in their schools.

The whole new HS thing was a total bait and switch on voters here, and now the athletic programs among other issues are paying for it.

LHS won state in football, JM sucked, Mayo sucked, and Century got their asses handed to them by Lakeville South..

So, dont be blaming LHS-blame the lame public school system that is failing the kids, the parents, etc---they did this
Don't blame the public system, blame the fact that there is only 1 Bantam A team and they all want to go to Lourdes (at least the good players). There is enough kids in Rochester that play hockey to have more than one Bantam A team.

Anyway now that that's out of the way, should be a great game. Lourdes won both games this year by a score of 3-1.

The last five games going back to last year.

Lourdes 2-1, tie 1-1, Lourdes 4-1 (EN, section semifinal), and this year both times Lourdes 3-1.

Heimer is going to be key in the game. If he is just average, New Prague will get the bid. My prediction Lourdes 3-2.

urban iceman
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Post by urban iceman » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:43 am

It'll come down to the goalies #1 and then if NP can match line for line with Lourdes. I feel that NP's Jr.s and Sr.s expirience will handle it, especially on defense, but the freshmen haven't really shown up against the better teams this year, might not bode well for team stamina towards the end. We'll see. GO TROJAN'S

jackstraw
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?

Post by jackstraw » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:03 am

Urban, all season you have belittled the underclassmen's choice to not play B level youth hockey. I checked Hockey Hub and found that the younger guys did perform well against some of the better teams. Now you said teams, so I am guessing you mean more than Holy Angels, and even in one of those games a Freshman had a multiple point game, on a team that doesn't score a ton. Go Trojans.

urban iceman
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Post by urban iceman » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:16 am

If I was told correctly at the time, they would have been playing A hockey in D6 if they made the choice to stay, JS.

hockeydad
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Post by hockeydad » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:21 am

urban iceman wrote:It'll come down to the goalies #1 and then if NP can match line for line with Lourdes. I feel that NP's Jr.s and Sr.s expirience will handle it, especially on defense, but the freshmen haven't really shown up against the better teams this year, might not bode well for team stamina towards the end. We'll see. GO TROJAN'S
Freshmen are doing OK.... Lijewski is skating on the top line and had three assists vs. Northfield in the quarterfinals, and Killian had the game's first goal against Albert Lea (The scoresheet said Jones, but it was Killian, Jones was not on the ice). One of the reasons Kilian didn't score for a while is he missed about a month with an injury and he came back just before the playoffs.

nickel slots
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Post by nickel slots » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:31 am

urban iceman wrote:If I was told correctly at the time, they would have been playing A hockey in D6 if they made the choice to stay, JS.
So I guess that explains why they chose to play B hockey at the pee wee level too :roll:

Regardless, NP has 3 lines that are all fairly equal and a 4th line that can chew up some minutes if need be. Whether some of those kids are freshman or not is totally irrelevant at this point. I still think the top bantams and pee wees in NP should be playing A hockey - even if they'd get killed by the Edina & Eden Prairies of the world, they'd compete with the middle of the road & below programs state wide... but I digress.

If those kids were playing A bantams, would that bantam team get out of Distrtict 6 playoffs?? Maybe, maybe not... we'll never know... but they are all getting some valuable playoff experience this year that will pay huge dividends for them and for all of their future teammates at the varsity level... which one could argue is the fabric of a youth association anyway (to build a successful high school program).

Right??
Don't sweat the small stuff.
It's all small stuff.

urban iceman
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Post by urban iceman » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:06 pm

nickel slots wrote:
urban iceman wrote:If I was told correctly at the time, they would have been playing A hockey in D6 if they made the choice to stay, JS.
So I guess that explains why they chose to play B hockey at the pee wee level too :roll:

Regardless, NP has 3 lines that are all fairly equal and a 4th line that can chew up some minutes if need be. Whether some of those kids are freshman or not is totally irrelevant at this point. I still think the top bantams and pee wees in NP should be playing A hockey - even if they'd get killed by the Edina & Eden Prairies of the world, they'd compete with the middle of the road & below programs state wide... but I digress.

If those kids were playing A bantams, would that bantam team get out of Distrtict 6 playoffs?? Maybe, maybe not... we'll never know... but they are all getting some valuable playoff experience this year that will pay huge dividends for them and for all of their future teammates at the varsity level... which one could argue is the fabric of a youth association anyway (to build a successful high school program).

Right??
I agree! My nephews play PWB1 and I don't think they would compete at the A level, maybe next year they'll go up as Bantams.

bobforhockey
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A little perspective, please

Post by bobforhockey » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:03 pm

Section 1A
2010 – Rochester Lourdes
2009 – Rochester Lourdes
2008 – Mankato West
2007 – Albert Lea
2006 – Mankato East
2005 – Albert Lea
2004 – Albert Lea
2003 – Rochester Lourdes
2002 – Rochester Lourdes
2001 – Rochester Lourdes
2000 – Rochester Lourdes
1999 – Red Wing
1998 – Red Wing
1997 – Red Wing
1996 – Red Wing
1995 – Red Wing
1994 – Farmington

Section 1AA
2010 – Lakeville North
2009 – Rochester Century
2008 – Lakeville South
2007 – Rochester Century
2006 – Lakeville North
2005 – Rochester Century
2004 – Lakeville
2003 – Lakeville
2002 – Lakeville
2001 – Austin
2000 – Rochester Mayo
1999 – Rochester Mayo
1998 – Owatonna
1997 – Rochester Mayo
1996 – Rochester John Marshall
1995 – Rochester Mayo
1994 – Rochester Mayo

So much for RL and world domination and so much for the demise of Rochester public school teams. These things ebb and flow based on some pretty random variables. Howie is just an anti church-school bigot. Could the Rochester youth program be stronger, of course, but gets tougher and more expensive the farther south you go.

Anyone doubt it would be Century v Lakeville South on Friday had the three Century kids at Juniors stayed home?
:?

The X
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:16 pm

Re: A little perspective, please

Post by The X » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:34 pm

bobforhockey wrote:Section 1A
2010 – Rochester Lourdes
2009 – Rochester Lourdes
2008 – Mankato West
2007 – Albert Lea
2006 – Mankato East
2005 – Albert Lea
2004 – Albert Lea
2003 – Rochester Lourdes
2002 – Rochester Lourdes
2001 – Rochester Lourdes
2000 – Rochester Lourdes
1999 – Red Wing
1998 – Red Wing
1997 – Red Wing
1996 – Red Wing
1995 – Red Wing
1994 – Farmington

Section 1AA
2010 – Lakeville North
2009 – Rochester Century
2008 – Lakeville South
2007 – Rochester Century
2006 – Lakeville North
2005 – Rochester Century
2004 – Lakeville
2003 – Lakeville
2002 – Lakeville
2001 – Austin
2000 – Rochester Mayo
1999 – Rochester Mayo
1998 – Owatonna
1997 – Rochester Mayo
1996 – Rochester John Marshall
1995 – Rochester Mayo
1994 – Rochester Mayo

So much for RL and world domination and so much for the demise of Rochester public school teams. These things ebb and flow based on some pretty random variables. Howie is just an anti church-school bigot. Could the Rochester youth program be stronger, of course, but gets tougher and more expensive the farther south you go.

Anyone doubt it would be Century v Lakeville South on Friday had the three Century kids at Juniors stayed home?
:?
Wow, "anti church-school bigot" looks like I caught another fish today. Bob you should be ashamed of yourself, name calling goes against everything the good book says and this sites rules. Never have I personally called any poster on this site a name. If you read up a couple posts you will see the cat is out of the bag. Rochester residents have spoken. Good luck to all teams in sections from north to south. Go section 7!!

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