Predictions for Advanced 16 and 17 national team.

[old goalie85]

Northwoods-- I couldn't agree more with you and ponie! The parents of the three Forest Lake kids all would like to know who gets the $ that these People fork out. Where does it all go?

[O-townClown]

I don't like individual awards or advantages given to certain players because of what they accomplished on their team. I think we are sending the wrong messages to these kids.

Why not send the entire State Tournament winning A Bantam team to compete at the national level? Why pick and choose kids here and there?

Why not send the AA HS Hockey Champion team to play all star teams to those states. We should be sending TEAMS, not individuals.

And I HATE the Mr Hockey award. Who the hell came up with that garbage?

That ain't hockey. These individual awards baloney is for Hollywood Oscars night.

I'm lost.

1- You don't like individual awards. Okay. Whatever.
2- You don't like "advantages" being given to "certain players". Am I to discern that participation in the Select camp for an age group is an "advantage"? Maybe it is, but it is an earned advantage. I know of several kids that have made it from the Southeast and every one of them has worked hard to become a good player. What is the "advantage" one gets from being invited to Rochester or St. Cloud? Exposure? Certainly. You don't like that? Okay, but the kids are then supposed to do what...hope someone finds them if they don't play where they'd get seen?
3- By rewarding excellence we are "sending the wrong message"? I disagree. In life there are people that are better or worse at certain things and USA Hockey does not proffer this message until age 14. Because Minnesota doesn't participate at that age, there it is 15. I'd say that's old enough to understand - or at least learn - that kids that excel will have more opportunities than kids that blend in.
4- Bantam champs? Is this a different thread? USA Hockey's development efforts for top players look for individuals. Just like the NFL Draft doesn't take an entire line from Ole Miss when they really wanted Michael Oher, just like Tubby Smith doesn't take every starter for Hopkins each year. Are you saying you'd like the Bantam champs to go to nationals, or are you saying those kids should be the ones to go to the Select camp? Because if it is the latter it won't mean much when they wind up on six or eight different teams.
5- I'm not sure what you mean by picking kids here or there. Is your beef actually with the tryout process? Again, I don't follow. Your ramblings don't make sense.
6- What does the AA state HS champ have to do with this thread? Teams don't go to Select camp. It would kind of defeat the purpose. If a good player can come from Slovenia (Anze Kopitar) or Nova Scotia (Sidney Crosby), shouldn't USA Hockey look everywhere to uncover their future national team players?
7- You hate the Mr. Hockey award? So what? I don't know who came up with it. Probably someone that saw how every state names a Mr. Basketball are realized it makes sense to award a similar thing for other sports as well.
8- What ain't hockey? Playing well enough to get recognized as a good player. Guess what? John Mayasich and Henry Boucha and Aaron Broten were good players and people knew it. When they were named All-State it didn't diminish the fact they played hockey. None of them went to Select camp, only because it didn't exist in their era. All of them would have certainly gone, and I'll wager they would have done well there.

Joe Mauer was Gatorade National FB POY as a HS sr. He was All-Conference in basketball. He was the #1 overall pick of the MLB draft. As far as I can tell, him winning a slew of awards hasn't rendered him anything less than an outstanding teammate. In fact, he garnered all the accolades because he is one.

I see nothing wrong with USA Hockey working to identify and develop top players at post-puberty ages. With 12 Districts it would be very hard for them to know which kids to track closely if they didn't see the best ones play head-to-head every now and then.

Please don't tell me you have complained when the US wasn't competitive in the World Juniors with Canada in the past. By taking a U20 or U18 tournament seriously, the United States has markedly closed the gap. Heck, they almost won a gold medal in the Olympics and it wouldn't have been a miracle. The first senior national team with a number of NTDP players clearly shows me that USA Hockey is on the right track with player development.

[O-townClown]

I don't follow....care to expand on that?

It is all "I" and no team over there for them there Rodents. Most certainly not the type of hockey you and I grew up watching. Oh yes and by the way the "showcasing" of talent that is awarded at the advanced program is laughable. It is a team game guys and you all know that.

Hockey is a team game, but teams aren't made up of teams. Ever. Teams are made up of players.

North Carolina wins the NCAAs and they sent four kids to the 1st Round, but they wound up on different teams. (McCants, Felton, M. Williams, and somebody else if I recall. J. Williams made the NBA as a free agent.)

The Gophers hockey at times has had maybe four or five kids from a community, but never a whole team. (Edina, Grand Rapids, Roseau, etc...)

In the NHL it is very unlikely that anyone play with someone they played with as a youth, in Junior, or in college. It just doesn't happen.

Somehow on a thread about Select camps you are railing against the University of Minnesota team for how they play. Fine if you don't like it, but please do not say the problem is that the team formed from individuals. That's how teams form! Maybe the wrong individuals are on it, but the problem isn't that they didn't join as a team.

Role players in sports don't advance. You have to stand out at one level to become a role player at the next. That's how it works.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Danny Bylsma would never have made your team at any level and he would not get a second look on a Minnesota Advanced evaluation. That is just the way it is now days. If you look at last seasons Gopher Roster you will see an advanced connection thus the comment. Players who can play as a five man unit make a team not some two trick dangler who fails to read ice for selfish gain. The game is not as complicated as some at USA hockey would like to make it with their individual skill mantra. Go back and take a look at Adam Oates stats, he made a living feeding goal scorers. Guess what there O-Town he did the same at RPI too. Hey O-town who works the corners to get your Rodents to puck? That is right nobody!!

[muckandgrind]

Danny Bylsma would never have made your team at any level and he would not get a second look on a Minnesota Advanced evaluation. That is just the way it is now days. If you look at last seasons Gopher Roster you will see an advanced connection thus the comment. Players who can play as a five man unit make a team not some two trick dangler who fails to read ice for selfish gain. The game is not as complicated as some at USA hockey would like to make it with their individual skill mantra. Go back and take a look at Adam Oates stats, he made a living feeding goal scorers. Guess what there O-Town he did the same at RPI too. Hey O-town who works the corners to get your Rodents to puck? That is right nobody!!

Yep....you're right...Minnesota has a bunch of "individual" players who played for Select and Advanced teams and rec'd individual honors at some point. NODOBY, and I mean NOBODY who's ever played for NoDak, Wisconsin, Michigan, Boston College and Boston University ever played for a select team in their lives. ONLY Minnesota recruits "individual" talent.

[Doglover]

You're right shakey - I stand corrected. The best players will be there, just not all the best players from MN.

[russiawithlove]

doglover, you are exactly right

[O-townClown]

Danny Bylsma would never have made your team at any level and he would not get a second look on a Minnesota Advanced evaluation. That is just the way it is now days. If you look at last seasons Gopher Roster you will see an advanced connection thus the comment. Players who can play as a five man unit make a team not some two trick dangler who fails to read ice for selfish gain. The game is not as complicated as some at USA hockey would like to make it with their individual skill mantra. Go back and take a look at Adam Oates stats, he made a living feeding goal scorers. Guess what there O-Town he did the same at RPI too. Hey O-town who works the corners to get your Rodents to puck? That is right nobody!!

Dan Bylsma is exactly the kind of player the national Select camps will find. He's someone that did not play travel hockey growing up, instead playing on the family rink with his brothers. His organized hockey was in house leagues, usually up in age.

I know a kid that made Select 15 nationally that didn't play travel the season leading up to it.

If an AO-type player was able to rack up a ton of assists at Select tryouts he'll be noticed.

[PoniesDad45]

I don't like individual awards or advantages given to certain players because of what they accomplished on their team. I think we are sending the wrong messages to these kids.

Why not send the entire State Tournament winning A Bantam team to compete at the national level? Why pick and choose kids here and there?

Why not send the AA HS Hockey Champion team to play all star teams to those states. We should be sending TEAMS, not individuals.

And I HATE the Mr Hockey award. Who the hell came up with that garbage?

That ain't hockey. These individual awards baloney is for Hollywood Oscars night.

I'm lost.

1- You don't like individual awards. Okay. Whatever.
2- You don't like "advantages" being given to "certain players". Am I to discern that participation in the Select camp for an age group is an "advantage"? Maybe it is, but it is an earned advantage. I know of several kids that have made it from the Southeast and every one of them has worked hard to become a good player. What is the "advantage" one gets from being invited to Rochester or St. Cloud? Exposure? Certainly. You don't like that? Okay, but the kids are then supposed to do what...hope someone finds them if they don't play where they'd get seen?
3- By rewarding excellence we are "sending the wrong message"? I disagree. In life there are people that are better or worse at certain things and USA Hockey does not proffer this message until age 14. Because Minnesota doesn't participate at that age, there it is 15. I'd say that's old enough to understand - or at least learn - that kids that excel will have more opportunities than kids that blend in.
4- Bantam champs? Is this a different thread? USA Hockey's development efforts for top players look for individuals. Just like the NFL Draft doesn't take an entire line from Ole Miss when they really wanted Michael Oher, just like Tubby Smith doesn't take every starter for Hopkins each year. Are you saying you'd like the Bantam champs to go to nationals, or are you saying those kids should be the ones to go to the Select camp? Because if it is the latter it won't mean much when they wind up on six or eight different teams.
5- I'm not sure what you mean by picking kids here or there. Is your beef actually with the tryout process? Again, I don't follow. Your ramblings don't make sense.
6- What does the AA state HS champ have to do with this thread? Teams don't go to Select camp. It would kind of defeat the purpose. If a good player can come from Slovenia (Anze Kopitar) or Nova Scotia (Sidney Crosby), shouldn't USA Hockey look everywhere to uncover their future national team players?
7- You hate the Mr. Hockey award? So what? I don't know who came up with it. Probably someone that saw how every state names a Mr. Basketball are realized it makes sense to award a similar thing for other sports as well.
8- What ain't hockey? Playing well enough to get recognized as a good player. Guess what? John Mayasich and Henry Boucha and Aaron Broten were good players and people knew it. When they were named All-State it didn't diminish the fact they played hockey. None of them went to Select camp, only because it didn't exist in their era. All of them would have certainly gone, and I'll wager they would have done well there.

Joe Mauer was Gatorade National FB POY as a HS sr. He was All-Conference in basketball. He was the #1 overall pick of the MLB draft. As far as I can tell, him winning a slew of awards hasn't rendered him anything less than an outstanding teammate. In fact, he garnered all the accolades because he is one.

I see nothing wrong with USA Hockey working to identify and develop top players at post-puberty ages. With 12 Districts it would be very hard for them to know which kids to track closely if they didn't see the best ones play head-to-head every now and then.

Please don't tell me you have complained when the US wasn't competitive in the World Juniors with Canada in the past. By taking a U20 or U18 tournament seriously, the United States has markedly closed the gap. Heck, they almost won a gold medal in the Olympics and it wouldn't have been a miracle. The first senior national team with a number of NTDP players clearly shows me that USA Hockey is on the right track with player development.

Wow, our opinions seem to differ just a little on this subject.

I think Select/Elite hockey is a steaming pile of dung and you are drinking the elite hockey koolaid out of a beer bong.


Let me ask a question. Exactly who do these Select Teams benefit and who do they hurt?

Seems to me you are alienating probably twice as many kids who are just as deserving a spot as the kids you choose (somewhat through the buddy system I have no doubt).

So you are hurting more kids than you are helping. Who is winning then?

Seems like you (not YOU but whoever is putting this steaming pile of dung of a program together) are helping colleges and the USHL or whoever to "scout" out the best players.

Am I right? I'm just making shots in the dark here but I'm sure that is a big reason for this to begin with right, showcase talent?

Why not make them do their own damn homework on who is the top talent? They would actually have to travel around and watch some games and maybe even catch a few kids in action they really like who don't have the connections to play on these wonderful teams?

Is that unreasonable?

Speaking of that US Hockey program, I recently looked at the roster of the U18 team, only 2 kids from MN on that team.

[mghockey18]

It is kind of known amongst kids that it is an unwritten rule not to play in Ann Arbor if you're from Minnesota...Bjugstad, Michaelson, etc..

[O-townClown]

Wow, our opinions seem to differ just a little on this subject.

I think Select/Elite hockey is a steaming pile of dung and you are drinking the elite hockey koolaid out of a beer bong.

Let me ask a question. Exactly who do these Select Teams benefit and who do they hurt?

Seems to me you are alienating probably twice as many kids who are just as deserving a spot as the kids you choose (somewhat through the buddy system I have no doubt).

So you are hurting more kids than you are helping. Who is winning then?

Seems like you (not YOU but whoever is putting this steaming pile of dung of a program together) are helping colleges and the USHL or whoever to "scout" out the best players.

Am I right? I'm just making shots in the dark here but I'm sure that is a big reason for this to begin with right, showcase talent?

Why not make them do their own damn homework on who is the top talent? They would actually have to travel around and watch some games and maybe even catch a few kids in action they really like who don't have the connections to play on these wonderful teams?

Is that unreasonable?

Speaking of that US Hockey program, I recently looked at the roster of the U18 team, only 2 kids from MN on that team.

You are correct our opinions differ. "Select/Elite" hockey is a steaming pile of dung? I'm not sure what you are referring to, but the thread is about Select camps sponsored by USA Hockey. Honestly, I don't know how you can draw such a conclusion.

USA Hockey officer #1: Hey, we struggle to compete internationally. Our top players never get to play together.

USA Hockey officer #2: That's right. They are so spread out. It isn't like Sweden or the Czech Republic. Even in Russia, most of the top hockey is played within two hours of Moscow.

#1: Let's try identifying our top players a little bit earlier. And once we've done that, let's try to form a team of them so they can play together as a team. After all, it is a team game.

And so the NTDP in Ann Arbor was born.

I fail to see the harm.

Who does this benefit? Certainly many of the kids that choose to play there. Who does it hurt? I suppose Bjorn Krupp's TPH Thunder teammates were worse off when he left for the NTDP, but one can also argue that it just means more crucial playing time for the others.

So now we are "alienating" kids by not having them go to the Select camp in the summer? I guess. Does a Minnesota association "alienate" a kid when he plays on the C Squirt team after getting cut from B? By your reasoning yes.

I don't think the purpose of NTDP is to hurt more than you help, and I don't think it does that. Who is winning? By recent measures, the United States. At all levels. You can question whether USA Hockey should worry about fielding strong international teams, but that is a stated goal. Shouldn't we applaud them? I heard many people critical of the organization when the US didn't fare well. (World Juniors was a story of a hot goalie a year ago. Wow some folks were awfully worked up over that low finish.)

Did you just compare a formal USA Hockey initiative to groom elite young players to a pay-to-play showcase weekend that exists solely to put Prep School, Junior, and college scouts in front of eager participants? Seriously, our national governing body deserves more respect than that.

I give USA Hockey 30 bucks annually. It would be an egregious waste of our resources if they had to form a scouting department that chased kids from Kansas City to Phoenix to Fort Lauderdale to Babbitt to Spokane to Salt Lake City and so on. How on earth could anyone propose this? Get most of the better players to a rink in Rochester or St. Cloud and we'll watch them there. Yes, what you propose is incredibly unreasonable.

There are only two Minnesotans on the NTDP for a number of reasons. Some don't want to go. They don't need to go when there are so many worthwhile choices. (Their public HS, a private HS, the HS Elite league, USHL before or after season, etc..) USA Hockey kind of has an obligation to develop kids from other areas that need to be developed. (Recently there has been a Georgian and several Californians. One player is from Las Vegas, Nevada.)

Let me ask you this. Would you be happier if USA Hockey did away with the NTDP and the Select camps? From your rants clearly that is what you want. However, it is a team game and the purpose is to have a group that isn't just thrown together haphazardly and expected to compete with teams from smaller nations. The most recent Olympic success shows me what is possible when a nucleus is formed from people that have previously trained under the watch of USA Hockey operatives.
[/i]

[O-townClown]

It is kind of known amongst kids that it is an unwritten rule not to play in Ann Arbor if you're from Minnesota...Bjugstad, Michaelson, etc..

MG, I don't know about a rule, but the choices they face are nothing like what kids from other areas see.

I'll take two kids to illustrate.

Minnesota Kid (Michaelson, Budish, Bjugstad, whoever):

I can live at home under my parents' roof, play hockey with my friends at a decent level, get scouted by colleges and pros, chase girls and lead a normal social life, supplement my HS season with the Elite league, maybe play a second sport, and see minimal disruption to my life.

or

I can go a few states away to live with people I don't know to play with kids I share common interests but really don't know, sacrifice my social life, be seen by college and pro scouts, and get into the good graces of USA Hockey.

Other area Kid (Seth Jones for example)

I can move away to play in the USHL or WHL/OHL

or

I can move away to play in an equivalent situation that retains my college eligibility and has the endorsement of USA Hockey.

Kids from other places would have a hard time saying no, while Minnesotans don't have the same decision profile.

[O-townClown]

I wonder why 18 players on the 16's squad and only 14 on the 17's?

Don't the national camps get smaller as you get older? I know Minnesota doesn't send 14s, so there are more spots nationally. Also, I thought there were fewer invited at the older years.

I checked. Last year there were 10 teams in the Select 14 camp and just 8 at Select 17.

[Doglover]

I wonder why 18 players on the 16's squad and only 14 on the 17's?

Don't the national camps get smaller as you get older? I know Minnesota doesn't send 14s, so there are more spots nationally. Also, I thought there were fewer invited at the older years.

I checked. Last year there were 10 teams in the Select 14 camp and just 8 at Select 17.

USA and MN Hockey just saw this post and calculated the $$ they are losing at the older ages. We may see more teams at the Select 17s next year as a result. My bottom line is that families should know prior to plopping down serious time and cash for two weekends of hockey, whether or not the intent is to select the best players. If it's not then be honest that you want to send some new kids to get some national exposure. That's fine but there are quite a few families that could've saved their money - especially the ones who had kids go last year and how about those chosen to play on the international team that didn't even make National Team this year in spite of having excellent HS and Elite seasons? Just trying to make sense of the selection process and what USA Hockey is trying to achieve. I think the lesson may be if you're chosen for the Select 16's - save your time and money and skip the 17 selections.

[jackstraw]

O-Town, generally speaking I agree with most of your thoughts. I think your a little off on this one. NTDP is a waste of HUGE amounts of money. Advanced program offers more kids more chances, but still can be a little goofy. You ask if we should be spending more money chasing kids down from wherever to wherever? YES, that is exactly what we should be doing and with the networking that goes on with hockey people, it should work fine. I am wondering if any other successful hockey nations scout their nation so heavily to find their players? Oh Canada, our home and native land............

[seek & destroy]

MG, I don't know about a rule, but the choices they face are nothing like what kids from other areas see.

Kids from other places would have a hard time saying no, while Minnesotans don't have the same decision profile.

For the most part I agree with much more of what you say O-town rather than ponie dad. We have many great opportunities here in Minnesota that other places could only wish for.

Is there politics in the Selects process? You bet. Is there politics in the Elite team process? No question. There are some great players who get missed in both programs and maybe we do rely to heavily on a political process to weed out players. But I don't think that a player who decides to try these programs are only about the "individual" and not about their team. The great thing is that kids can choose to try and be a part of these programs OR choose to not do them and just play with their team...if they are good enough, scouts will find them no matter which route they go. I'd also guess that the players that the scouts like the best have great 'team' skills not just individual skills.

The beauty of these extra programs is to offer a lot of kids some additional chances to be seen by scouts and show that they can play at higher levels. It doesn't mean that they are 'selfish' players who don't care about their H.S. team. There are a lot of very good players on 'not so good' teams that may not be seen as well if they stay only with their buddies and never participate in programs like these. To answer Ponie dad, without these programs you'd see more players doing individual things including leaving their schools in an effort to get recognized. The vast majority of players in Minnesota choose to play with their H.S. teams. For some that are on weaker HS teams, this is a great avenue to use rather than leave their school to go to a private school or play Junior hockey. Are we creating a State full of selfish players? Maybe but I think the best players still end up being great, unselfish teammates and that is what makes them stand out.

Good scouts don't just watch the final games in St. Cloud or only go to the State High School tournament to look for players. Most of them were at the early rounds of Selects watching players and have gone to countless H.S. games over the winter watching players on all sorts of teams. They had opportunities to see 1000's of players and maybe saw some they liked that aren't on very good teams or that didn't get selected at Selects to move on. They'll continue to keep their eye on them during next season or watch for them in other venues. All in all, these extra programs provide a valuable outlet for players to try and stand out from other good players and still be able to play with their team during the season. It's not perfect but it is better than many of the options in other states.

[O-townClown]

NTDP is a waste of HUGE amounts of money. Advanced program offers more kids more chances, but still can be a little goofy. You ask if we should be spending more money chasing kids down from wherever to wherever? YES, that is exactly what we should be doing and with the networking that goes on with hockey people, it should work fine.

You definitely can make a case for not having the NTDP. I don't see a big problem with it, but I haven't reviewed the USA Hockey budget and don't have an understanding of its cost.

How many scouts are you proposing for USA Hockey? It would take a lot. There are 12 Districts. Not all are in relatively small areas like Minnesota. It makes more sense, to me, to get the players together in one place.

Ponie has stated that the whole process is evil or wrong because it promotes all-star mindsets. That's a far different view than citing the cost of NTDP.

I understand there are disagreements with how the players for Select camp are chosen. That's yet another argument.

[StayAtHomeD]

I'm with Ponies on this one. If they aren't doing this as a part of their team then it should not be supported by USA or Minnesota Hockey. You are producing a bunch of hotdogs who fail miserably when they run up against real talent developed in Europe and Canada.

There should be no special teams or picks until after they play their senior year of hockey and then they should have an elite Seniors League with players nominated by their coaches based on teamwork, attitude and skills.

I'm sure the kids picked now have long resumes of being on the Blades. MM or Icemen or have Dads connected.

[muckandgrind]

I'm with Ponies on this one. If they aren't doing this as a part of their team then it should not be supported by USA or Minnesota Hockey. You are producing a bunch of hotdogs who fail miserably when they run up against real talent developed in Europe and Canada.
There should be no special teams or picks until after they play their senior year of hockey and then they should have an elite Seniors League with players nominated by their coaches based on teamwork, attitude and skills.

I'm sure the kids picked now have long resumes of being on the Blades. MM or Icemen or have Dads connected.

Did you watch the World Juniors?????

You don't think Canada or Europe pick "special" teams during these ages? What rock have you been hiding under?

You may quibble with how these Adv teams are picked...but, by and large, the teams that are formed DO seem to be the cream of the crop for that age....sure, there will always be a couple of head scratchers, but it's all subjective.

[hockeyfan893]

[quote="muckandgrind"][quote="StayAtHomeD"]I'm with Ponies on this one. If they aren't doing this as a part of their team then it should not be supported by USA or Minnesota Hockey. [b]You are producing a bunch of hotdogs who fail miserably when they run up against real talent developed in Europe and Canada. [/b]
There should be no special teams or picks until after they play their senior year of hockey and then they should have an elite Seniors League with players nominated by their coaches based on teamwork, attitude and skills.

I'm sure the kids picked now have long resumes of being on the Blades. MM or Icemen or have Dads connected.[/quote]

Did you watch the World Juniors?????

You don't think Canada or Europe pick "special" teams during these ages? What rock have you been hiding under?

You may quibble with how these Adv teams are picked...but, by and large, the teams that are formed DO seem to be the cream of the crop for that age....sure, there will always be a couple of head scratchers, but it's all subjective.[/quote]

Agreed with Muck on all counts.

I'm sure Fasching and Cammarata will only get selected because they have a resume of being on the Blades, nothing to do with the fact that the Blades and other programs like the Machine actually have the top talent.

[O-townClown]

I'm sure the kids picked now have long resumes of being on the Blades. MM or Icemen or have Dads connected.

11/12ths of the kids picked are from outside of the Minnesota District. You will be surprised when you see not all come from the 'likely' programs. Of course, many do As pointed out, people are looking for the same kind of top player. We can't be surprised if high-level AAA teams and USA Hockey identify the same kids.

USA Hockey is in a lose-lose situation regarding selections. Take all the best 'known' kids and they didn't look hard enough. Take someone else and they didn't take the 'proven' players.

[dueling21]

My major question on the matter is this: Does helping some players with an Advanced program also mean that you must "hurt" others not chosen?

It seems that the argument against Advanced programs is based on the assumption that not making a team "hurts" those players as much or more then it "helps" those that make it.

I think that's a fallacy promoted by those who aren't happy with the selection process.

We all know that selection processes suck. They suck for those under the microscope. They suck for those who have to make the selections. Kids, parents, coaches, etc. are unhappy with it.

Get used to it. Selections are going to happen for the next 60+ years of their lives. College admissions. Job searches. Dating. Promotions. And on and on.

We don't always win, even if we think we "deserve" to. That doesn't mean we have to feel like a victim every time.

[old goalie85]

Anyone know what AAA team/programs the kids selected played on coming up? Did they all play for the Blades, Machine? Did some not even play summer hockey? [ sorry if this is off subject]

[OnFrozenPond]

Anyone know what AAA team/programs the kids selected played on coming up? Did they all play for the Blades, Machine? Did some not even play summer hockey? [ sorry if this is off subject]

None of them played for the Machine since they have not had teams at the 94 or 93 ages.

[old goalie85]

Thank you pond.