Randolph Appeal and Article

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:14 pm

To answer your question, the general rule is that, absent a contract,you can fire someone for no reason but not for any reason. We are all employees at will. I can get up now and leave my job or my boss could lay me off tomorrow without any repercussions. You cant fire someone because of their gender or race but you can decide you don't want some one working for you anymore and fire them for no particular reason at all. If there is an employment contract, typically you are bound to one another absent "cause" for the term of the contract. PS.Thats more than I know about it.

centerman · Post by **centerman** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:36 pm

I'm sure Randolph feels the school was in the wrong to fire him and this is about him clearing his name. Whether they were or not is up for debate. I for one don't have enough information to make that call.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D">

LSandA · Post by **LSandA** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:08 pm

Please wake up... Let's face it...coaches get fired at all levels of sports all the time. Additionally as we all know athletes get cut from teams every year based on the coach's decision. Randolph was able to coach at East for 15 years...way ahead of the coaching curve. He should consider himself lucky. I am sure every coach who has lost a position, or every player who has been cut from the team, or every player who sits on the bench feels like it was unfair. It seems ironic to me that one coach should demand so much attention, when the same thing happens to athletes and coaches everyday. In respect to the rest of the hockey world who may have been cut or let go, can we please put this issue to rest? Although I am sure Randolph thinks he was shafted and under appreciated for his 15 years of service, he needs to move on like all the kids he cut in in his 15 years. Just think what it would be like if every kid that got cut or let go had this kind of open forum to claim unfairness. There wouldn't be enough room in the paper.

cyozzie36 · Post by **cyozzie36** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:48 pm

LSand A--If you don't want to take place in reading about this then don't. This IS an open forum where we can discuss anything related to HS Hockey. You are right coaches lose jobs and players get cut but most of the time its for a reason. A player can get cut for a ton of reasons and its too bad it happens but the hockey world in Minnesota is competitive and not everyone can play or can be on a certain team. Thankfully there are junior gold programs and other ways for kids to continue to play the greatest game. Randolph was able to coach at East for 15 years and so he should have been able to continue coaching. I'm sure he does consider himself lucky but also pretty unlucky considering he lost his love and joy for no apparent reason. He worked his butt of for those years for little pay, lots of headaches, and tons of pressure. Obviously there are many rewards of which he got to receive many (state titles, press, pleasure of helping kids grow and become better as people and hockey players, etc), but the fact of the matter is he has been wronged and there is nothing wrong with standing up for yourself and fighting for what you believe in or your rights. I encourage him to fight this because it is wrong and he should still be teaching hockey to high school kids at Duluth East. Yes, I am biased because he was my coach and he taught me and helped me become the man I am today. Not to mention bringing me and my teammates to 2 state championships. The issue is that he was wronged because others with major agendas had it in for him. Thats wrong. Many people don't like Coach Randolph but he is a good old fashioned coach who teaches his players and makes them better. Anyone who gives that much time and effort to something deserves to be treated better because he was not getting rich by giving up hours upon hours for the kids that he coached for so long. You woke me up and if you don't want to contribute to our discussion than don't bother reading or writing anymore.

LSandA · Post by **LSandA** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:18 pm

Sorry..didn't mean to get you so riled up My point was simple...More than just one coach or athlete has a beef with fairness. My friend's son didn't make the pee-wee A team and swears it was politics. Does he have any recourse? Isn't that the reason you are taught to respect the decisions of coaches and administrators? I respect the fact that you are willing to stick up for your former coach. Hopefully you will be able to contiue to follow his coaching career. Good Luck

cyozzie36 · Post by **cyozzie36** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:55 pm

What happened to Coach Randolph does rile me up. I do understand your point however being cut can be a great thing and such a learning experience. I was there as a kid as I was cut from both PeeWee A and Bantam A teams but playing B's only made me better and more confidant. Thankfully, I got the experience of playing As and then High School but playing Bs was still a great experience. Also--I personally know some great players who played Bs at some point even guys who went on to college hockey (A. Wheeler, A. Coole, R. Coole) so make sure your friends son is encouraged and sticks with it because a lot can be gained from the B level. The player may even develop far more than he would have had he made the A team. Finally, I understand respecting administrators and coaches however when you have been wronged you should stand up for yourself. Imagine what this country would have been like if people would not have stood up for themselves. (Not that I'm trying to compare this to prominent people in history just making a point) Anyways-- I appreciate your opinion and I'm sorry I was riled it's just Hound Hockey runs deep and people in Duluth are passionate hockey people.

Post by **east hockey** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:01 pm

Just saw a story on KDLH-TV that there is a motion before the Duluth School Board to reinstate Randolph. They're set to vote on this during their April 20 meeting. Any guesses on how the vote will go? Lee

eagle73 · Post by **eagle73** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:40 am

Was it the Duluth school board that originally decided not to renew his contract? If so I cannot see them reversing their decision and reinstating him. I guess thats a no.

Eddie Shore · Post by **Eddie Shore** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:48 am

Yes, but you're forgetting that three of the school board members that were instrumental in pushing Mike out the door were trounced in the last school board election by candidates that openly support Mike. He will be reinstated. There's an article in the Duluth News-Tribune this morning on the subject. <a href="http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/dulut ... 427326.htm" target="top">www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthtribun ...  I feel bad for Todd and his staff, but they knew it might be a one year ride. Congrats to them on a great year - regardless of how this shakes out.

cyozzie36 · Post by **cyozzie36** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:49 am

Things are always interesting up North. The whole situation is messed up but hopefully the school board or the grievance will give Randolph his job back. I would feel bad for Coach Wentworth, however he is a good guy and will understand. It's interesting how they keep talking about the wreath fundraiser but no one can ever say exactly what the problem was. I know a big issue has always been kids selling wreaths and then getting cut but as far as I can recall the wreaths didn't affect who made the team or not. Everyone was supposed to sell 60 wreaths. Did everybody of course not but we all realized that the wreath provided us with a great deal. Things such as pregame skates, always riding coach, etc. Anyways---Things are interesting and in my eyes I want to see Coach Randolph back behind the Greyhound bench with Trachsel and Johnson beside him.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:16 pm

What an awkward situation for everyone. Sad that the high school coaching position becomes a political football. Everyone must have the best interests of the kids in mind......right?

rams1981 · Post by **rams1981** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:26 pm

I know this deviates a bit but I thank God that Mike Marvin or any of his cronies (Tonto or Izzy or Whale) aren't in the same position as the principal that led the crusade against Coach Randolph. He's been trying for years to piss Coach Eades off enough to make him leave because he can't get him fired so he can then control the whole hockey program-heaven forbid-Warroad then would drop back in to the black hole of mediocrity. It takes just one person in the right position to bring down something special. Sounds like a vicious, vindictive split-tail got him, too bad, hope he does rise from the ashes. Thing about an administrator is they don't have the shield a teacher does so things could do an absolute 180, wouldn't that be justice...<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... smokin.gif ALT=":smokin">

LSandA · Post by **LSandA** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:10 pm

It looks like Randolph found a loophole. I agree it looks like he will get his job back. However the word on the street is none of the East players or parents want him back. Supposedly the anti-Randolph movement by the players and parents is on. Will Randolph still want to coach where he is not wanted? Interesting. I also heard that Randolph's wife works for new school board member Husted...the biggest supporter of getting Randolph re-instated. Does anyone know if this is true and is that a conflict of interest? Also if Randolph does indeed get re-instated, who will be his boss? It obviously will no longer be the East principle. Will he get a lifetime contract? Lot's of questions....who has the answers?

cloquet98 · Post by **cloquet98** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:24 pm

you are right the team doesn't want Randolph back, 2 of next years captains organized a rally behind Wentworth and Mathias tonight in Duluth. They realized they had a lot more fun playing hockey last winter and 3rd in state wasn't bad either. Wasson one of the school board members has a kid trying out for BAntam a's next year and has been promised a spot by Dave Mclean if she votes for RAndolph, her phone is ringing off the hook i hear trying to get her to change her mind. If MIke was such a good coach why isn't he in the USHL making 100k a year vs 5k in the high school ranks, maybe he is making a ton of cash on the wreaths.

LSandA · Post by **LSandA** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:31 pm

Just saw the channel 3 news on the whole Randolph reinstatement deal. Three of this years players were interviewed and in no uncertain terms said nobody on the East team wants Randolph back. What is the deal...why does the guy want to coach when nobody wants him back? It is weird that all of a sudden the new school board wants to give Randolph his job back, when the entire East program, players, parents, A.D., and principle want nothing to do with him. If Randolph cared so much about the program, he should respect the wishes of those involved and go away. I am sure with 15 years of coaching experience he could find a job elsewhere where people might appreciate what he has to offer. The truth seems to be that his ship is being steered by fanatical former players and parents from many years in the past. What does it say that players who rallied for his job last year, now want nothing to do with him? Obviously the East boy's have found a more enjoyable program with the new staff. Additionally this year they had the best winning program in the past five years. I believe Randolph will get his job back based on politics...however it is sad to see a old coach play politics, wimper and cry, and expose high school kids to get his high school job back. One thing is for certain...If he takes his job back based on a school board decision, he will lose any respect and dignity he gained over 15 years as the East hockey coach.

cyozzie36 · Post by **cyozzie36** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:31 am

Well, I'm sure that some of you have been expecting some more comments from me so here goes. Crazy how a group of athletes who just finished a great year where they played don't want to rock the boat. Of course this years team will support Randolph especially because many of them probably didn't play a whole lot the year before when Randolph was coaching. Probably because at that point they weren't ready and then this year they were. That would only be expected, ironic becuase a year ago they were fighting incredibly hard for Randolph. Next point, Randolph built the program and desearves to call it quits when he says so. I'd like to hear some stories about East pre-Randolph. The ones I've heard aren't good. East has always had the talent but played undisciplined and never as a team. That changed with Randolph and he built East to where it is from the ground up. Next point, a major aspect of the steering of his boat is coming from the union and the state. Many coaches from around the state see what happened to coach and want the system changed. No coach of any sport desearves to lose his/her job for no reason and without due process. This is his due process at least. The system is wrong and he isn't fighting it just for himself. Next, why shouldn't someone fight for something they believe in? Also, you fight the system the way the system calls you to battle. Coach Randolph got ousted because of politics, whimpering, and crying. To say it is sad to fight the same way is a crock. He got ousted for doing nothing wrong. He got ousted because some people had it in for him. You can't tell me there wasn't an obscene amount of politics behind him losing his job in the first place? If you think their wasn't you have no clue. Next, losing respect for a man that gave a ton to many kids.....come on. Thats sad to read in my eyes. The guy gave fifteen years to East kids and desearves to be respected for what he and his teams accomplished. Not to mention that he is respected around the state and more coaches need to coach like him. Finally, yes I am an ex-player but I'm also finishing my MBA and have learned a great deal about leadership and the way employees should be treated. Any employee, which Coach Randolph is, would be upset if something like this happened. Try to put yourself in his shoes. You give up 15 years for little pay and you get kicked to the curb by people with a vendetta. Thats just flat wrong. Anyways I've written enough...............................for now.

lwo3 · Post by **lwo3** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:23 am

cyozzie--you seem like a bright guy and care a great deal about coach r. hopefully before you get your mba you will learn the difference between being fired as an employee and not having a contract renewed.

wild77 · Post by **wild77** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:39 am

OK, I am very familiar with the Randolph story, but I rely on information from the paper, TV, or other media sources. I do not know what went on behind the scenes and am confused by your statement, "You give up 15 years for little pay and you get kicked to the curb by people with a vendetta." I might be a little naive, but I thought this whole thing had to do with Coach Randolph's lack of respect for an auditor that was requesting information on the wreath sale and a principal that felt Coach Randolph was getting too big for his britches (because he did not give the auditor information when she requested). That might be an overly simplistic explanation, but I am wondering what people had the vendetta and why?

Rudy19 · Post by **Rudy19** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:17 am

I've been away from this board for awhile but had a feeling this issue would be heating up on here. First of all, I think it's absurd to say that the entire East program doesn't want Randolph back. It sounds like this information is based on the two players that were interviewed on channel 3. Let's take a look at who was interviewed, Mathison and Landen. Mathisons were never fans of Randolph because their son never played and were at the head of the "People with personal vendettas group" that got him ousted. Landen never even played for Randolph, I heard he didn't even tryout when Randolph was there! It doesn't suprise me though that channel 3 would set it up this way considering who works there and was one of the most vocal of the disgruntled parents. Typical of media reporting though, there's always a slant one way or another. Now I'm not saying that all the players want Randolph back, but I know for a fact a good amount of them do. We have to also keep in mind though, that Wentworth is still their coach. Do you think that these players are going to come out and say they want their old coach back when there's still a slim chance that it will happen? No. Talk about jeapordizing playing time! The other issue hear is that this is dealing with a lot more than just Randolph. He wouldn't be fighting so hard if he didn't have the support of so many people that are pushing him to keep fighting. The people that can read between the lines and see what has really happened here. I think it's a huge uphill battle that has really impressed me on how far it has gone, but i do not believe it would have made it this far without the support from others. I find it really hard to believe that he couldn't get another coaching job, but why should he be forced to move. To leave and just accept that your image has been tarnished by so many lies. The fact that what has happened to him was the result of a couple hidden agendas of people in power. He deserves his job back and to end on his own terms. He has done nothing wrong. It would be great to see a school board actually step up against administration that has faulted. Changes need to be made and I think this can be a lesson learned for all of us.

cyozzie36 · Post by **cyozzie36** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:30 am

LWo---Thanks I appreciate your help. I understand he wasn't fired but in all essence he really was from his coaching position. No other coach from another position has ever had their contract not renewed when it came to coaching so why did it start with him. Also--as far as I know he complied with everything that was asked of him except to resign peacefully so that the administration could throw him a nice party and feel good about the injustice they were going to do anyways. Side note: There are plenty of people in the East end of Duluth who were and are out for Coach Randolph, for a number of things including but not limited to: not playing Marshall (in or out of Mars Arena), players being cut, players being cut after fundraising, etc.. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... ozzie36</A> at: 4/15/04 11:34 am

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:09 pm

<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> This is really getting ridiculous. I have never heard a good reason for the "non renwel" As I have said before, no one can be around any program that long and not cultivate some enemies. But whether you agree with the Boards decision back then or not, is it any more right to reinstate him after an election? It seems to me that they trying to put whip cream on horse dung and serve it to East hockey as something good to eat. Boy, people really lose sight of what athletics should be about, dont they?

cloquet98 · Post by **cloquet98** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:40 pm

cyozzie36, you ask why Randolph's contract wasn't renewwed, didn't the papers talk about the audit and how the coaches wouldn't open their books to comply. I also thought I remember reading things in the Star Tribune about "misappropriation of funds" I agree with you the guy built up the program and did of great job as a coach, especially that last year he coached when he got a team with no talent to state, but as much as I don't want to believe he Terry Johnson and Larry Trashel were dipping in the cookie jar, something just didn't seem right.

Eddie Shore · Post by **Eddie Shore** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:47 pm

You're all making the assumption that he will actually take the job if he's "reinstated" by the school board. There are schools in the twin cities that are waiting on the outcome...he can get a coaching job at other high schools if he wants one. As I've posted here before - this is about more than Mike Randolph. Let's just all wait to see how this one turns out. And let's not forget the current staff...as Cyozzie pointed out, they're good people and good coaches. This has got to be hard for everyone involved - the players, coaches, Randolph and the school administration. Hopefully it resolves itself quickly and everyone can move on.

dropdamitts23 · Post by **dropdamitts23** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:36 pm

I really don't believe that Randolph can choose a job down in the cities, Yeah right! That's why he's fighting so hard for this one. He's been ruthless for years and people let him get away with it, they were right it was time to move on, <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

cyozzie36 · Post by **cyozzie36** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:46 pm

I don't know all the behind the scenes things and I'm sure none of us really do, but I'm pretty sure that the books being opened and things were in regards to the DEHAA aspect of it. For those of you that don't know that is the Alumni Association that does quite a bit of fundraising for the program. As far as I can recall they did comply with everything and the numbers showed that some funds were not really acconted for but over five years it was less than a few thousand dollars. To me this could easily occur with all the transactions that occur. I can't imagine either of these three men risking their reputations for any amount of money besides that I remember what is was like for us as players and we had it awesome. They definately spend a ton of money on us from sweats, sweatshirts, shorts, pregame skates, pregame meals, coach buses everywhere, decent hotels on the road. If they did want to embezzle money they would have been able to embezzle a ton more by not treating the players very well and I know for a fact that didn't happen. Later. Note to Dropthemitts: Give us some reasoning behind your statement, and have a clue. Many people on here have posted he has coaching opportunities and their are programs that would take him in a split second. People need to remember this man has lived in Duluth his whole life. He doesn't want to leave though he probably would consider it. However, coaching is not everything to him but it is a part of him.

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