Duluth East's Coach Randolph fired

jr · Post by jr » Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:38 pm

Everyone should be real careful what they say until the FACTS come out. To blast people on either side of this issue without the FACTS is WRONG!!!

Rudy19 · Post by **Rudy19** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:13 am

I agree Lee 100%. I wondered also if he did something really bad or was just set up. I don't understand why they didn't tell him what he did. He has the right to know and at least defend himself. I think he would've taken the option to resign if he did something wrong. Knapp has been all over those coaches since day one though, and that is a fact. It's kind of obvious she wasn't their biggest fan considering they moved to Hermantown to avoid the program. If she's supposedly doing what is best for the students, why are they so upset with the decision? There have been aligations against them, but all of them have been proven to be lies. The funny thing is they always come from parents of kids who have been cut or are not playing varsity when they think they should be. With a program as successful as Duluth East's, there seems to be a lot of those kind of parents. I think the parents coupled with Knapp's feelings led to the decision. It really is a disgrace and Pat Guyer said it best when he was quoted saying "It's a sad day for hockey." This article sums everything up pretty well: <a href="http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/dulut ...  Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... >Rudy19</A> at: 4/27/03 10:17:00 am

txhockey · Post by **txhockey** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:14 pm

i dont know if this will make sense. and maybe will open up a can of worms. this is not sour grapes as some people may say. because i played for coach, i was not cut and dont have a grudge to hold. i also dont live there anymore, so i dont have to deal with repurcussions of what i say. and again, this is my experience. and maybe other players will put their experiences out there. i am a former player and coach in the duluth east program. my senior year was coach randolphs first year. i loved playing for him. there were certain things said that just made you want to play - "i will give you the recipe, follow it and you will win". i would also like to think that my senior year was the building block of what the players are experiencing now. i had a friend who was cut. this player sold the most wreaths that year. and coach told us, i dont care how many wreaths you sell (i think we had to sell like 6), it is what you do on the ice, that is how you make this team. we as players understood this. if you worked hard, you played. we as players liked this, hey what you do on the ice should determine who will make the team. i would hate to see a player make it because they could sell things, but could not play or help the team. although, i think this player could have helped us. but again, we all see things a little differently. now a completely different side of coach. as the older brother of another player who played for coach. my brother hated playing for coach. his senior year, coach would stand by the front door and ask when he was going to quit. why not quit and give me your jersey. why put up with this, why not quit. he came home and would tell me this. i was a coach with the bantam a's and peewee a's (randolph selected these coaches) at the time. i kept telling my brother, you are not working hard enough. he does not ride your a**, unless you are not working hard. quit whining and work. i did not believe him. but, at games he seemed to be doing what i remember as the right things in coach's system, and because the teams would practice together every now and then, i saw the way he practiced - which i had no complaints with. and trust me, i was always on my brothers rear end about working hard. so i was confused. i mean, i am backing my former coach, against my brother and my family. but something is not right here. and he did not quit. so coach pulled 3 seniors into a room 2 games before playoffs. told them they would not be on the tournament team, unless they proved their worth. my parents, without my brother knowing, called the athletic director to discuss this with him. my aprents wanted me to talk to coach, but i went against them, told them it was not my business, he had to earn the ice. my brother went out and scored 2 goals in the win. he was kept on the team for the playoffs, the other two were let go. right before playoffs. 1 of those seniors was an alternate (got to practice in the clear glass rink) on the 91 team that took second. to this day, i kick myself in the butt for not listening to my little brother. i did not know he was sneaking out at night to go to the rink to shoot pucks at midnight. why, because it was fun. how do i know, because i followed him one night. and confronted my teary eyed little brother. he told me he loved the game, but could not take the constant mental anguish of going to practice, coach made his life a living hell - and he could not understand why. and this was a way to help deal with it. is this what hs sports are about? other stories were told of players being cut on the bus back from scrimmages. asked to meet with coach in the front of the bus, then cut and now that player has to ride back with ex teammates for the next hour or so. we all heard these stories, we all cringed. all former players said, how could coach do that. these were also former players that i had the priviledge to coach, they were telling me these things when i saw them at the rink. as a coach in the system, i relayed to my players how great coach was. and you wanted to play for him. we taught the same systems, and i expressed to those kids how you could not explain what it feels like to put that east sweater on for the first time. and some of those players came back and said, why did you not tell us about the other side of playing for him? because i did not know that side as a player. and does coach recruit, yes he does. i was asked by coach at a clinic to try to persuade a player from another school to come and play at east. at the time, the kid said no. but a couple of years later, the kid was wearing the hound sweater. at the time, i always thought that was just common practice. but who cares about that other side or recruiting, he won. and he taught that program to win the big game, where before no one else had. that is why players love him. that is why parents are sticking up for him. some may not, if they knew about the other stuff. but in the back of my head, i kept thinking, when is someone going to stand up to the czar of east hockey. when is something going to be done, when a kid puts a bullet in his head because of these mental games that coach plays with players, now that might seem drastic to some of you - but some of you never played in east system and dont know what it is like growing up and being a hockey player in the east end. you are nothing until you put that sweater on, it makes and breaks kids - emotionally and socially (the friend i mentioned above, selling the most wreaths and still got cut - lost his girlfriend and started drinking - that is what it means to play or not to play for that program). wake up - it's reality. and dont knock those parents for sticking up for their boys. if you were a parent, you too would want what is best - and sometimes you dont always think clear on it. and the stars dont know anything about this side of coach. it is the 3rd - 5th line kids. spehar would not know anything about this, because since he was a 9th grader, he never got this treatment. the stars of the program never saw this, if you want the real truth, talk to the 3rd line guys. please dont get me wrong, i love that program. i get excited to see my former school in the state tournament. i am so happy for those players. but i am not happy for the coaching staff, except terry johnson and todd wentworth. both are great guys. i coached with both them (although todd and i were not always on the same page), and i respect both of them alot. i hope terry reconsiders and continues to help that program. would i like to see coach back, this is a difficult question. i am on the fence. he is a winner (and my father always said - the fricken guy wins, how can you get rid of someone who keeps winning - people are blinded by the success). i just think the way it was handled is not right. let the players know why, no one else needs to know. dont keep hush on it. if these are the reasons, i can see why they got rid of him. he is a great coach, and belongs in a college setting. i have said way too much. go hounds.

CanAm28 · Post by **CanAm28** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:19 pm

There have been 600 jobs lost in Duluth since last December with little publicity nor solutions to the problem. Meanwhile, a hockey coach looses his coaching job and it dominates the media for three straight days. This kind of tells me what the general problem, the game no longer belongs to the kids. Spaulding Sporting Goods reported a staggering figure of how few footballs, basketballs, and baseballs they manufacture now as opposed to ten years ago. Fewer kids are participating in sports. I wonder why. Aside from an occasional special moment, most of sports has become gross.

WarroadWarrior · Post by **WarroadWarrior** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:16 pm

u gotta realize in minnesota though, Hockey is damn near a religion. I'm sure if a predominant football coach in texas was fired it would get just as much press as this is here.

the voice of reason · Post by **the voice of reason** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:04 am

To all, Txhockey, I know who you are and I agree with you 100%, I couldn't have said it better myself. As another former player, I also watched as many players, including your brother, were put through that pressure. Life in the East hockey program is never easy, it's extremely competitive. Take the way that you explained how your brother was treated.....Now, I don't know who to blame that on, Mike or "the program" as a whole.........Is that a biproduct of success? Is that the proper way to motivate people? Is that they way to motivate a group, a team, to win a championship? In coaching, there's a fine line that MUST be respected - that line being what's in the best interest for the team vs the individual well being of each player. Obviously not everyone is going to get the same amount of playing time etc. But I believe that there's a point in time to be honest with your players, to motivate them when needed. Being honest with the players is one thing and completely necessary. Frusterating players to the point where it's no longer a motivation to them, but instead a burden, is simply going to far. I'm on the fence with you, I've seen both sides.

Whoknew2 · Post by **Whoknew2** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:33 am

TXhockey--Very well put. I have not been on this board for months. I had a feeling this subject might be discussed here. I think the sad part is that this is very indicitive of a lot of High School sports. This seems to be common about hockey coaches if you talk to "families" that have gone through programs. I feel high school coaches give themselves way to much credit, and don't take enough responsibility when the going gets tough. I am rather surprised to hear someone who seems to be really in the know about a powerhouse program step up and say "Yes, they definitaly recruit." Interesting. Thanks for the insight though about your feelings on this situation.

juniorhockey · Post by **juniorhockey** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:58 am

A good talk for once. I have one comment for those who want the School and Administration to come out and inform everyone with what Coach did wrong. What if he did do something bad? If they come out and tell everyone it spreads like wildfire from Duluth throughout the state, probably through all the ranks as well. By their silence, are the actually helping him? I'm simply and outsider looking in. I know nothing but what I've read on here. However, it isn't always that uncommon to protect the reputation of a former coach by not passing along all the details of his departure.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:34 am

I took a peak at the site again and was taken aback by this thread. I gotta say that txhockey's post was one of the best I've ever read on this site, displaying honesty and insight not seen very often. There seems to be an irony in that Mike was fired in the same way that he cut many of his players. From one of the articles, possible clues to the reason Randolph was canned pop up here: "Randolph said the district needs to have a consistent policy toward fundraising, and a consistent policy with how it handles complaints from parents. Randolph said the district needs to back its coaches, and there needs to be more communication between administrators and coaches. Randolph said through good communication, if there were problems to be addressed, they could have been handled before things got out of hand. "I hope that the coach who follows me, or any coach for that matter, never has to go through something like this again," Randolph said." Reading between the lines, it sounds like improper fundraising and complaints from parents, as people have suspected, brought Randolph down. This is being filtered through a reporter so you have to take it with a grain of salt, but it sounds like Randolph is admitting his guilt and basically saying the administration didn't tell him they felt things were getting "out of hand". If txhockey's poignant story about his brother is to be believed, there is a strong irony as I said earlier, in hearing a coach who allegedly communicated very poorly with some of his players complaining about poor communication. There is no question that Randolph was a successful coach, but it appears that he did have his flaws. It's easy to have a good relationship with your top players, but you can be successful and still treat your 3rd and 4th liners with respect. If as alleged, Randolph was a jerk to the players he cut there's really no excuse for that and it may have come back to haunt him.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:06 am

I feel for Mike, as I knew him as a team mate and fellow coach. He has no doubt brought a lot to the table for East hockey. Winning the "Show" is never easy and Mike has proven he can do it. Coaches that have been around 10 or more years tend to build "enemies" over the years. The coach in a high powered program has to make many difficult decisions. Cutting players is one of the hardest! Trying to motivate a player to draw more talent from them is not as easy as pushing one or two buttons. Sometimes a player must look in the mirror to find the answer. Other times the coach tries to motivate through a variety of ways. I hope Mike was not let go for one of the aforementioned jobs of a coach. Duluth East is a demanding program with staunch competiton from within. The whole story is not out and we will all have to be patient before slamming people involved.

Cfour · Post by **Cfour** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:34 am

While any person losing their job is unfortunate, this is a slightly different situation. This isn't a case of the job being cut due to financial issues, replacement, or economic problems. This is a situation where someone lost their job for no specified reason. That, combined with the popularity of hockey around the area, and especially the East program, is why it is getting the publicity.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:58 am

I think my original post came across a little harsher than intended, so let me step back a little. Clearly Randolph was doing something right, you can't be as successful as he was for that length of time without knowing your stuff. It wasn't my intent to slam Randolph but I did want to make the point that communicating with your players is an important part of a coach's job. 'the voice of reason' did a better job of articulating my thoughts than I can, but if Randolph was not communicating with the players he cut he was making an already touchy process into more trouble for himself. The final point I wanted to make was that whatever his faults he did not deserve to be fired without being told why.

drillit · Post by **drillit** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:31 pm

PLEASE...let's not be so naive as to think that King Mike has no idea why he was let go. He is playing the old "dumb as a fox" game. Data Privacy Laws prohibit the District from saying anything and he knows this...he's manipulating the press and everyone else the same way he has manipulated the East program for years -- in whatever way can be most beneficial to Mike and only Mike!

CanAm28 · Post by **CanAm28** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:15 pm

I read txhockey's post, and let me just say while his brother's experience was tragic, but true, it was also one of many, many examples of this. A lot of people commenting on this situation believe that the grudge is being played out by those who were cut, or by their parents. What people don't understand is that there are countless stories like this from players who played in the program. I too have I asked myself, "when is some East player going to put a bullet in his head over hockey?" In most cases, they graduate and they forget about, and they've remained silent over the past couple of days, probably because they're busy with more important things in life. There's an effort under way to show public support for Coach Randolph. Fine, under our first amendment, your entitled to do so. Did you know that a high school coach signs a contract knowing full well that he or she can be relieved of his duty at any time without reason or cause? That's the reality of the whole situation whether you agree with or not. What I find amusing to this is all of the hypocrisy that surrounds it. People who spent their winter bashing Mike Randolph, are now on his bandwagon supporting him. Why? Because their son still plays in the program, and in the remote chance that this decision can be over-turned, they want to position themselves as "hey, I supported you." And I too expect Dave Spehar to say great things about Mike. God made Spehar the hockey player that he was, not Mike. Although, in the East program I recognize that it is difficult to distinguish between the two. I remember being at the DECC watching East practice back when Spehar was there. The team was in the midst of a blow-out conditioning session, and Spehar and Locker were at the under end shooting pucks. Freak occurence? Let's just say I saw it more than once. I'm not here bashing Mike and his staff. He's done some good things at East. Frankly, fifteen years there is probably enough. Mike would probably be the first to say that this program wasn't about one person. The program will continue to flourish. It will have great years, and it will have mediocre years. Hell, in two years it might not even be a high school. Finally, I thought the radio call-in show on Saturday was absurd. What was positioned as an open, unbiased discussion on the topic turned into the most choreopraphed personal political platform since the Senator Paul Wellstone memorial service. John Gilbert wanted to hear both sides of the issues, openly, and then announced that he was dressed in black because he was in mourning over this turn of events. I guess we pretty much knew your position on the matter. Want an idea for your next great hockey book John? Compile the horrendous stories of former East players, and you can start with txhockey's brother. I smell Pulitzer prize here. Some of the lucky one's are the ones who got cut.

biskethacker · Post by **biskethacker** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:54 pm

were You one of them?

CanAm28 · Post by **CanAm28** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:11 pm

Hardly.

dropthepuck · Post by **dropthepuck** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:44 pm

When Laurie Knapp became principal, I commented to others that Randolph would be fired within a year. I guess it took 2. You need look no further...trust me. Randolph has accomplished alot with the program. A program that has always had some of the best talent in the state but rarely got out of the section before he became head coach. People quickly forget that East was historically a talented bunch of underachievers and I mean no disrespect, as I am an East supporter. No, he hasn't been perfect and has made mistakes. But everyone makes mistakes. If there are issues that need to be addressed, then it was incumbent upon the AD and other administrators to call his attention to these issues and support him in making positive changes. In my opinion, the positive that he brought to the program far outweighed the negative such that there should have been efforts to correct any issues, if they existed. Many of these issues (if player cuts, communication, and fundraising are the issues) are issues elsewhere, too. After giving 15 years, he deserved more then he received.

4checker · Post by **4checker** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:41 pm

<a href="http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/ ...  - More on Randolph, Armstrong and Guyer.

icedude · Post by **icedude** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:15 pm

Having

icedude · Post by **icedude** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:24 pm

The article goes into much detail of the fundraising issue. Living in East Duluth and knowing the past relationship between the Knapps and Randolph, and their reason for moving to Hermantown, this strikes me as a personal issue between the two. Many other people who know both parties comment similarly. If you read the paper, you will note the tone of the letter from Knapp....does that sound like someone trying to constructively solve a problem. It is a very adversarial and confrontational letter. If something is such a significant issue, this should have been communicated through a formal meeting with an opportunity to address the issue and correct it. Once again, many facts are muddied up. The assistants and parents ran the fundraiser. What communication actually occurred between the parties. DO you fire the coach over this or work together and fix the problem. This was a very correctable problem if the parties were interested in correcting it. Evidently they were not. What a mess!!!

the voice of reason · Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:38 pm

I would like to clear some things up that I've read today that are a tad upsetting......In the 4/29/2003 Duluth News Tribune Article "Fundraiser at Issue," there are a few quotes that I would like to clarify. Randolph insists no students were ever forced to sell wreaths, or that the amount of wreath sales determined playing time. "What I tell people when I hear that is that Dave Spehar maybe sold six wreaths his entire high school career," Randolph said. I'm not trying get off on a rant here, but anybody that ever sold a wreath knows darn well that you were implicitly EXPECTED to do so. Oh - my - God. Can everybody please stop hiding under your rocks and back me up on this. Dave Spehar? You have got to be kidding me. I know Dave, I like Dave. But Dave wasn't exactly what you'd call a "bubble player." It was explained at many of meetings in the basement of Pizza Hut and clearly understood, wreath sales are a tiebreaker between players of equal skill levels. Interpret that as a 16 year old kid trying to fufill your dream of playing for East - It means sell as many fricken wreaths as you possibly can. Try selling 0 wreaths if you're not Dave Spehar. You might as well not even put your skates on. It all gets back to what txhockey was saying. The issue is not about Spehars, Lockers, Mills, Finnegans. These players were treated differently (better) because of their skill, naturally so -it happens everywhere. Better looking people have better chances of getting jobs, it's a reality of life. Let's talk about the Joe Shmo's of East hockey. The "bubble players." These are the players that have the issues, these are the seniors who grew up in east hockey that get cut or don't play because of incoming freshman from other schools. These are players who get dropped from the tournament roster 2 days before the deadline so a sophmore goalie can back up the starter. These are the players who get cut on bus rides back from scrimmages. These are the players who, as seniors during tryouts, don't get to skate with the obvious varsity session, don't get looked at, don't get a fair shake, and get cut. I'm so sick of watching as everybody who talks smack about the program all freaking year, all of a sudden curls up in a ball and defends or steps aside from the issue. Last time I checked, this wasn't Iraq. And what is the issue here people? It's not that Mike Randolph is a bad guy. It's not that Mike Randolph is a bad coach. It's not that Mike Randolph hasn't made Duluth East a hockey icon of the Minnesota north. The issue my friends that we all must face as fans, parents, students, players and coaches is that Duluth East, as successful as it has been in the past, NEEDS improvement for the future and NEEDS change. Whether that be electing not to renew Randolph's contract....I say so be it if that's what it's going to take. If Mike somehow returns from this, he should know that he needs to make changes. He needs to change the way he treats people. If he can't do that, then he belongs at a higher level where people get paid, cut, and shafted all in a days work and nobody gives a rat's oo-hole. These kids are people and students before hockey players. It ain't their paycheck and high school hockey's not the Stanley Cup. Remember when the premise of hockey was to have fun above all else? I think we've lost our intentions over the years. I have also said too much, but I'm not going to sit back and candy coat an obvious problem. And to those who are going to ask me if I got cut, shafted, whatever - no I did not. I'm just speaking on behalf of those who haven't yet for whatever reason. Go Hounds.

CanAm28 · Post by **CanAm28** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:31 pm

Actually, what I found to be interesting about today's article on East hockey fundraising was the disparity given between what was made on this year's wreath sale and the figure reported in Saturday's radio program. It was reported that $16,000 was made in the Duluth News Tribune article and $9,000 on WDSM. Well, let's just see now, that's a difference in reporting of $7,000. Hmm, let's apply that over 15 years. I guess we're talking about roughly $105,000. Does the word felony mean anything. Of course this could be more easily verified, but as I understand it, past sales records do not exist. Repeat after me, E--N--R--O--N.

dropthepuck · Post by **dropthepuck** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:57 pm

Voice..I appreciate the sincerity of your note and comments. The issue of bubble players isn't unique to Duluth East. Every coach and team has to make these decisions. And yes, perhaps some things could be done differently with this. And yes, maybe there was some indirect pressure on players to sell the wreaths. My only comment is that Coach Randolph has given 15 years to the program. He is given his time, energy, etc., to build the program and develop successful young men. The program by most any measure has been highly successful. Were there some issues, perhaps. But trying to sell that Coach Randolph was fired over a wreath issue, however you interpret the paper, is absurd. Just to listen to this sounds crazy. Ok, perhaps there was a problem with the fundraising. Do you fix it by firing Randolph. Does the email from Laurie Knapp sound like someone who wants to work with the Coach in solving the problem? It sounds to me like someone who is trying to document from an HR perspective and is bent on getting rid of him. Any reasonable person trying to solve this problem would have gotten on the phone, said "Mike, I think we have a problem here." Lets get together and see what we can do to make this work." I don't think Mike is perfect but I do believe that Randolph was hosed in this matter....powers missused, etc. Talk to anyone in East Duluth who knows the parties, and you'll get the picture. I hope more comes out on this publically and at the school Board level. On the other side and in fairness to the District, I don't know the specifics of the contract between the ISD and Randolph. They may have a termination without cause provision, and if so be within their rights to terminate. Its just that with hockey in Duluth and East in particular, people view this as more of a public issue than internal issue.

Rudy19 · Post by **Rudy19** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:11 pm

CanAm28 - dumbest thing I've ever read. People are way to busy jumping to conclusions of what happened. The coaching staff pocketing money is not the issue. Even almighty Knapp stated that this was not the problem. They've checked all of that, and what did they find, nothing. The issue, supposedly, is that Knapp thinks the money that cut players recieved during the wreath sale should go into their pocket. So people that donate money thinking that it is going to the Duluth East program, ends up going into some player's pocket. If that ends up being the case, watch for Duluth East to have the highest number of kids to ever try-out next year. They'll get some kids that barely know how to skate trying out just so they can make an extra buck or two. It makes no sense. I've sold wreaths and have had no problem doing it. We were never pressured to sell a certain amount and I always felt that spending a little time raising some money for a program I wanted to try-out for was fair. Now having been in the program also, I have stated on here many times my support for the program and the entire coaching staff. I've seen both sides and have stated many times how I think that Duluth East has one of the best coaching staffs a program could ask for. I've witnessed others. The knowledge they possess about the game is undeniable, I think we all agree on that. The claim on this board I disagree with is the claim of unfair treatment to certain players. I was no star player, nor were many of my friends that played. No one ever had special treatment. Now, Randolph is a tough coach, but he knows how to bring the best out of his players. The life lessons I learned through that coaching staff will be carried with me for the rest of my life. They helped me mature as a person and prepared me for that next step in life. One of the greatest things I learned was that I could have anyhting I wanted if I wanted it bad enough and worked hard for it. You do not come out of that program not knowing how to work hard. He has an old time style which does not base decisions on politics, which has become a huge problem in so many programs. This staff has done nothing wrong. I have talked to many valuable sources in Duluth. This is soley based on hidden agendas and personal issues. Many of those supporting the movement are parents of former players that do not have anyone coming up in the program, and some of those are parents of kids who were cut. Knapp says it's the best thing for the students, then why are they so upset? This whole situation was handled very poorly. They know the coaches did nothing wrong, that's why they offered to throw them a big celebration for all of their accomplishments if they resigned. To me, that's not something I would do for someone who has done something wrong. It's sickening and there will hopefully be some justice.

CanAm28 · Post by **CanAm28** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:13 pm

Lighten up Chad.

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