Duluth East's Coach Randolph fired

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

radolph

Post by joe lulic » Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:12 pm

ChisK is right. Whether you are a coach, administrator or whatever, you should do your best to run a fair and open program. I liked what I read in some of the posts on this issue and for sure coach Randolph probably wasnt what some thought he should be. But it was posted very early on in this thread that you just cant please everybody. txhockey has some real good ideas and ways of doing things......for him. If you are going to be successful, you have to go about it the best way you know how. How about this for an exit interview " You really are the better player but if I cut the other kid his mom might become principal and I might get fired , so sorry but thats the way it is" Then would he still have a job? <p></p><i></i>

Puckguy
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:56 pm

Randolph Saga

Post by Puckguy » Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:23 am

Is this one over? <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

JLS 81
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:08 pm

Here's a thought

Post by JLS 81 » Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:42 am

I do not know where this one is headed but here is a thought. Mike Randolph moves to Duluth Marshall in the next couple years barring at a point there is an opening. 7AA lands Duluth Marshall and talks Hermantown into moving up (they are on par with Grand Rpaids enrollment wise anyway). That way 7AA fans can dump St. Francis and Cambridge and bring the section back a little more regional as in North and East rather than all over the map. Than if that works out replace Forest Lake with Bemidji and put Forest Lake in with Woodbury where they belong.<br>Marshall - East games would be well worth it for instant rivalry. <p></p><i></i>

Eddie Shore
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:38 am

Re: Here's a thought

Post by Eddie Shore » Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:20 pm

That would be great, JLS. Only problem is that Mike will never be the coach at Duluth Marshall as long as Bob Mars is alive. Mars is the school board chair in Duluth that was intent on dumping Randolph. He is also a major benefactor of the Duluth Marshall school - the rink on campus is Mars Lakeview Arena.<br><br>I hear they're pretty intent on hiring anyone but Mike Randolph. From a coach's perspective, I believe that would be a tough position to step into for a coach. Talk about being under the microscope.....<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

east hockey
Site Admin
Posts: 6964
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:33 pm
Location: Proctor, MN
Contact:

Re: Here's a thought

Post by east hockey » Tue Jul 01, 2003 8:24 pm

Eddie, I think you're exactly right. Who would want to step into this situation as Mike's replacement? Oh, there have been rumors, of course, but we won't know until it's announced. <br><br>For what it's worth, Mike's supporters aren't considering this a done deal yet. Not when you have a petition out there with 1,100+ signatures in support of him. Stacked up against less than a dozen parents, Laurie Knapp and Bob Mars. <br><br>Meanwhile, there are those whom are working towards the goal of getting Mars off the School Board (and one or two others while they're at it). More power to them if they can make it happen, I say. Mars has, in my opinion, misused his "authority". <br><br>Mike coaching Marshall....heh heh. How funny would that be? But, as you said, not a chance.<br><br>Lee<br> <p></p><i></i>

JLS 81
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:08 pm

Re: Here's a thought

Post by JLS 81 » Tue Jul 01, 2003 8:32 pm

eddie, Thanks for giving me the inside scoop. Being from Grand Rapids I did not know the inside story and thought Randolph to Marshall would certainly make things really fun in Duluth area hockey with East - Marshall matchups. If that were to ever happen (and based on your input it will not) you would have an instant rivalry that would eclipse Duluth East-Cloquet. <br>What is your take on Hermantown will they ever go AA? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... =jls81>JLS 81</A> at: 7/1/03 8:33 pm<br></i>

pucklover7
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:39 am

randolph

Post by pucklover7 » Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:39 am

here <p></p><i></i>

pucklover7
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:39 am

Randolph

Post by pucklover7 » Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:48 am

The saddest part of this whole situation is that now there is serious talk of starting a AAA Midget team in the east end of Duluth. There is a group of 4 - 8 parents who have started the process of getting a AAA midget team off the ground. Lets face it it may start to happen anyway. The players are so far behind when it comes to competing at the jr. level, and how can they compete playing 25 games with 15 minute periods, and now they can't play jr.'s till the completion of their sr. year. Its going to be tough for Minnesota to keep up like this. With the talk of the private schools going the same route than what the heck, maybe AAA Midget is the way to go vs. Prep. In any event Bob Mars will can sleep well at night knowing that his legacy will be that of the man that started the end of High School Hockey in the "State of Hockey", and he did it by ruining hockey in the east end of duluth. As someone who used to stay home sick from second grade to watch the high school state hockey tourney. I thank you Bob Mars. <p></p><i></i>

CanAm28
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:19 pm

AAA ?

Post by CanAm28 » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:04 am

Here we go. More talk about a "AAA" Midget team spawning out of Duluth East. This pops up every year as sure as the fogs going to roll in from Lake Superior. Who are they going to play? Nearest competitive "AAA" Midget teams are Shattuck-St. Mary's, Marquette Electricians, and the Thunder Bay Kings, each of who already have a full slate of games. So aside from travelling to these areas, now you're forced to head to Madison, or Chicago or to Winnipeg. We're talking about a serious team budget.<br>So now that Mike Randolph's available to coach, this things just going to take off? "AAA" coaches are generally financially well off, self-employed which provides them a great deal of flexibility, or compensated by the team. Mike's a teacher in the Duluth school system which means he's got a salary and benefits. Do you really think he's in a position to leave that for this annual pipe dream.<br>Also, let me remind you that Minnesota Hockey neglected to follow suit with the rest of the country and Canada in age classification changes, making our Midgets older than the others, which again prompts the question, "Who are they going to play"?<br>Minnesota high school hockey has their challenges. I don't dispute that. "AAA" hockey is a workable model in other parts of the country and Canada, and maybe it will be here someday as well, especially on the heals of state-wide budget cuts in education. It won't be happening in Minnesota anytime soon. <p></p><i></i>

pucklover7
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:39 am

AAA Midget

Post by pucklover7 » Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:16 pm

I have to say I thought the same thing you did, until I did some research. It is very possible.<br>First the group of parents are highly motivated, very well connected (hence already starting to talk about corp. sponsorship) and the type of people that just aren't going to be told that they can't do something. As far as Mike coaching, I don't know if that is a concern however they will being hand picking a coach, not just dealing with one who is placed in front of them by the school board. When it comes to the schedule, they know it will take a lot of travel, however it is a very possible thing to do. Yes Shattuck is the only program right now, but Holy Angels and Hill-Murray are looking into, far enough into it that they have even contacted Bantam A coaches around the state to see if they could but together a Bantam AAA team to replace the JV program.<br>Now they can compete against USA hockey age level teams, as long as their roster is age compliant. Shattuck represented Minnesota at the National Bantam tournament last year, because they were the only age compliant team. No qualifying. So it is possible, whether or not it happens, it remains to be seen, but it is a very possible reality. <p></p><i></i>

anderson49
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:02 pm

pucklover7

Post by anderson49 » Sat Jul 05, 2003 12:21 pm

i can't think of anything more detrimental to a team than to have the coach handpicked by and therefore at the mercy of the parents of the team - would the parents also decide the lines and the power play and penalty kill?<br>as to the comment about bantam aaa, i have friends in both programs, and i have never heard a word about bantam aaa from either. <p></p><i></i>

pucklover7
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:39 am

ok

Post by pucklover7 » Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:03 pm

Obviously the parents would not be choosing lines and such, however they can have input on who that coach is. Also I'm sorry your friends have not been informed but it is for real, Contact the Centennial or White Bear Lake Bantam coaching staffs, they can both confirm it. They wouldn't agree to it because they don't want to see what would ultimately be the end of bantam hockey.<br><br>It seems a lot of people are saying this could never happen. I remember the same thing being said about the high school league going to a two class system. Think about it <p></p><i></i>

4checker
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:47 am

The stories continue .....

Post by 4checker » Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:20 pm

This seems to be a well-written story regarding the Randolph firing, at least from an outsider's perspective. <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://startribune.com/stories/1405/397 ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Raises more questions regarding the importance we all place on becoming an "elite" program. This continuing saga contains all the issues almost every hockey association in the state faces at one time or another. Luckily for the rest of us, it doesn't garner the type of media attention this story has. Duluth hockey will survive one way or another. Excellent coach, or overzealous maniac? Meddlesome parents, or concerned supporters? Great kids pushed beyond their limit, or spoiled slackers? It's all there for us to analyze, and hopefully learn from. <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: The stories continue .....

Post by joe lulic » Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:23 am

4checker, thanks for the article site. I read it and it sounds like a pretty typical situation. The guy has been there a long time and has ticked some people off along the way. I think the answer to your questions is probably some where in between. <br><br>Some of the "complaints" are obviously just sour grapes. I mean, getting shuffled back and forth between jv and varsity is hardly unique.<br>There is always the struggle in youth sports , not just hockey, between those who take it seriously and want to win and develop talent and those who take it seriously and just want their kid to be included. When the "participation" people get control, look out. They are just as overzealous as any coach. Witness what is going on in the air conditioned city. <br> <p></p><i></i>

txhockey
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:14 pm

Re: The stories continue .....

Post by txhockey » Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:18 am

joe,<br><br>after reading your post, then rereading the article, i can see your point. i think the reporter missed the boat with this story. i think he could have gone further into the stories of the players. and i think had he given the full story, not the cliff notes, you would think differently. i am not suggesting the article be a randolph bashing, but could have given more insight to the players story. <br><br>this is not sour grapes. one of the stories in the article is my brother. and i was disappointed that the reporter did not go into those details. i was interviewed for the article, and i was under the impression the players story would be told. when i read the article, i thought the same as you. it sounds like sour grapes. again, had those stories been told, you would be under a different impression. <br><br>but please trust me, my brother played 10 years ago. he has moved on in his life. he went to college and found a coach who brought the love of the game back to him. there is no sour grapes, what would he have to gain by telling his story? <br><br>go hounds,<br><br>txhockey <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: The stories continue .....

Post by joe lulic » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:10 am

txhockey, <br>In my first post I pointed out that I really dont have any insight at all into the East hockey situation. I do have a lot of experience with organized sports in general and hockey programs in particular. They all look a like after awhile so I tend to speak in general terms. If your brother got a raw deal, I dont mean to dismiss it. <br><br>The only thing I can say is that from all I have read, this Randolf situation doesnt sound like anything more than the people who were "dissed" by the guy eventually got control and took revenge. I havent heard any thing about any conduct that would justify dissmisal. If this guy was such a monster, why does he have so many supporters? <br><br>Again, if their is more to the story and kids like your brother were treated poorly, I think we all ought to know about it. <br><br>By the way, I get involved in situations occassionally that make the news. They never get it right and they never tell the whole story. There is a reason people dont talk to reporters. <p></p><i></i>

east hockey
Site Admin
Posts: 6964
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:33 pm
Location: Proctor, MN
Contact:

The Randolph/Mars saga deepens

Post by east hockey » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:51 am

Heard this morning from an unconfirmed source that ice time at Mars-Lakeview is now being denied to teams in the Duluth East system. Why? Well.....ask Bob Mars about that, I suppose?<br><br>Any confirmation on this?<br><br>And, of course, Mike has filed a grievance with the Duluth School Board over them not considering his application for his old job. Twas a matter of time before the union (and eventually lawyers) got deeply involved. How else could it be?<br><br>I also was browsing Harry Welty's website (yep, Harry actually has a site) and he did a detailed "journal" of sorts regarding the whole situation with Mike's dismissal. I thought it was of note that Harry mentions this EZ Board in his journal. Makes for an interesting if not entirely objective read. I'll post the web address later today if I get time to look it up again. <br><br>Lee <p></p><i></i>

CanAm28
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:19 pm

Mars vs East

Post by CanAm28 » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:28 am

What I heard was that the Duluth East Bantam "A" team will not be allowed to rent ice at Mars Lakeview. The reason, Bantam coach Steve Pitoscia was rather outspoken and pubically rude to Bob Mars at the school board meetings. It is my understanding that they were a significant tennant of the rink the last couple of years. As anyone knows, there's ample icetime for Duluth teams when you don't need it and in extremely short supply when you do need it. Despite Steve's convictions on the Mike Randolph matter, he may have wanted to consider this before he verbally assaulted Bob. Looks like he'll have to bundle up for the cold confines of Fryberger arena.<br>As for lawyers getting involved, forget about it. Look up the definition of a no-cause clause. Mikes done. Move on. Name a new coach before the snow starts to fly.<br> <p></p><i></i>

pucklover7
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:39 am

East Bantam A

Post by pucklover7 » Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:19 pm

Well first the Union and Lawyers getting involved have nothing to do with the "no cause" clause in the contract. However it does have something to do with Mikes application not being considered. There is a precident that has been set of coaches being rehirred after being non-renewed, the fact that the administration has not followed the contract in which there needs to be a 7 member selection commitee, is the question at hand. I do agree with you that he probably won't coach this season. However there is a very important election coming up this year, that could make it hard for the superintendant and principle at East to keep their jobs. It will be interesting to see if Bob Mars runs against Harry Welty in District 2, or At-Large versus Mike Akervick. If he runs against Welty then that should be quite a battle in which either way one of the two are gone. If he runs at large good luck, Akervik has tons of support east of 21st ave. east, and there is a lot of people out west who don't care for Mr. Mars. Finally the fact the Krause is gone is only a bonus.<br><br>As far as the Bantam A team, regardless of what Steve Pitoscia has said about his feelings on Bob Mars, it is only the players on that team ( the 14 and 15 year kids ) that will be effected. Doesn't that team play mostly in the twin cities anyway. <br><br>Its a good thing we live in america where a person can speak their mind and be banned from a hockey rink because of it. <p></p><i></i>

JLS 81
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:08 pm

Move On

Post by JLS 81 » Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:22 pm

Indeed it is time to move on for the good of Duluth East players for certain. However based on a micro managing administration, a few "feel good" parents Coach Randolph was fired for what appears to be a few sour grapes. Good luck to whoever has stones enough to want that job. The microscope will be intense. What can and will the next coach do to please that bunch. My guess is East will have revolving coaches the nest 15 years with 3-5 years tenures tops <p></p><i></i>

east hockey
Site Admin
Posts: 6964
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:33 pm
Location: Proctor, MN
Contact:

Re: Mars vs East

Post by east hockey » Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:36 pm

CanAm, given Mars connection to Mars-Lakeview Arena, the only objective thing he could have done was to divorce himself from the Randolph situation. Mars has been, bluntly speaking, a pissant throughout this entire situation. He has played a leading role in the anti-Randolph camp (and Harry Welty tried to claim Mars didn't know that Mike was being dismissed before it went down? Sure..wanna buy some farmland in downtown Minneapolis while your head is in the sand?) As such, he has opened himself to any criticism Steve Pitoscia (or anyone else, for that matter) levels at him. I'm sure you don't agree with this assessment, and that's fine. As I've said before, there are pro-Randolph people (such as me) and anti-Randolph people (such as you) and the two opposite opinions will never agree on whether Mike's firing was warranted or fair. Even if you think that Mike's firing was justified, you can't by any stretch of the imagination agree with the way in which it happened. Mars and Laurie Knapp would have been in their glory back in Salem circa 1692.<br><br>Back to the topic at hand; I say Mars has created a serious conflict of interest for himself. Not to mention being hypocritical to the max; anyone in his position (with those close ties to Marshall and Mars-Lakeview) who says that East hockey has gotten "too big" should be laughed off and dismissed. If that's not a pot-kettle-black situation, I don't know what is.<br><br>Hopefully he will be dismissed, as in voted off the Duluth School Board. It would be sweet justification considering his role in this deal. Take Welty with him.<br><br>Lee<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Duluthhockeyfan
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:18 pm

Bantam A Ice

Post by Duluthhockeyfan » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:18 pm

It is my understanding that Steve Pitoscia has gone the Media about this. That should look favorably on Bob Mars, The Lakeview arena, and the Marshal School. If you ask me, I think either The Marshal Board, or Brendan Flaherty or whomever this decision was made by really dropped the ball on this one. Nothing like taking it out on kids to make yourselves look bad. <br><br>I can't believe guys like Gerry Dodd, or Billy Paul would be behind it, don't they have kids coming up in the program? Unless this is their way of running Steve out too, than it makes perfect sense. If thats whats going on, than Harry Welty is right, not only has East hockey gotten to big, but all hockey has gotten to big. <br><br>All this over a high school hockey coaching job. The longer I write, the more pissed I get. <br><br>By the way doesn't that East Bantam team have kids on it that go to Marshal. Thats a good way to keep them. After all don't you think some of those kids might go play AA hockey at East now that Randolph is gone. A lot of them played for Wentworth and Letourneau when they were young. Whoever is making decisions up there on the hill needs to replaced cause it sounds like the next couple of days are going to get interesting. <p></p><i></i>

dumpitin
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:49 am

Bob Mars

Post by dumpitin » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:37 pm

While most men over 70 are playing shuffelboard, Bob Mars is working tirelessly for the kids of Duluth--most of whom do not play hockey for Duluth East. Anyone that has worked with him know Bob is a man of action and integrity. His name was put on Lakeview Arena by a volunteer Board to honor his many years of service and support to youth hockey in Duluth in addition to the many volunteer hours he put in to raise private money to build a beautiful rink--he did not name it after himself and has no input on who rents ice there.<br><br>Mr. Randolph has selective memory and blaming Bob Mars for his plight is absurd--get over it.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Duluthhockeyfan
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:18 pm

Mars

Post by Duluthhockeyfan » Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:34 pm

No one is judging Bob Mars on what he has done in the past. Mike Randolph himself has said that Bob Mars has done a tremendous amount for hockey in Duluth. People are upset with his current actions, and not his current actions as a man, but his actions as an elected official. His action as a Duluth School Board member. It is obvious that he is to involved with a private school, to be deciding what should happen in the public school, that potential conflict of interest is so obvious, it is sickening that people are still denying it exsists. If the program at East goes in the tank, than like it or not, The Marshal hockey program will benefit, and the bottom line is his name is on the building. <p></p><i></i>

Rocketwrister
Posts: 694
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:45 am

Mike

Post by Rocketwrister » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:39 am

Unreal how the school board keeps shooting themselves in the foot. It's one thing to let the guy apply for the job and then just not hire him; but to tell him straight out??? <p></p><i></i>

Locked